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menatarms

China Airsoft Development

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I just had lunch with part of my Airsoft team in Guangzhou, China today - in particular I took the meeting with my friend who will be doing some custom C-N-C work for me, as his primary business is .. manufacturing Airsoft parts (nothing too big right now. Metal replacement hop-up units, AK metal body currently).

 

So we got to talking about who all is doing what in Airsoft today in China. The clone AK Model 028 CYMA factory (AKS), is developing model 03X ... all metal M4. Then we heard also that there are two other guns in production currently inside China by un-speicifed parties (who is NOT Classic Army, or VFC/Inokatsu) .. an all metal Minimi M249 and a M60 variant (whether it is an E3 or E4 is not known). Lastly, I was told to expect by 2Q of 2007 .. Chinese made clone M-14 AEG.

 

So, brace yourself for a Red Invasion in Airsoft .. they have the technical know-how, they have the machines & labor, and most of all .. they have competitive cost advantage. And there will be no stopping them from this point forward.

 

Believe it or not .. you heard it here first. ;)

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As long as they keep the quality control high enough, this will be great news for everyone.

 

I hope someone will start making an affordable EBR kit for the clone M14 :P

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'As long as they keep the quality control high enough, this will be great news for everyone.'

 

Yeah, that seems to be the one thing that is missed often but when it does correctly we get amazing parts from the aisian market.

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If they start taking a sizeable share of the market then they're going to have to be willing to inovate as well as duplicate

 

Any incentive to develop new models goes out the window if theres the prospect of a clone at half the price ending up on the shelves beside it within weeks couple of months of its launch.

 

Up till now most manufacs have had a years grace to recoup costs before facing half priced competition on a particlular model, take that cushion away due to shorter and shorter lead times for clones and theres a danger nobody will bother their *albartroth* R&Ding something new.

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Good point! I can tell you that this is how all industries gets started in a developing economy. First be able to duplication and do it well, then develop into innovation. Remember -- we are not talking about TFT technology or advance aviaonics or VTOL fighter aircraft .. we talking about relatively low technology glorified toys.

 

But honestly -- I'd be happy if they can duplicate a M14, G36, M249 and have them perform well and of course at 60% of current prices. My money is on that it will happen.

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Realistic-looking cheap China copies, affordable and accessible to little kids at the Supermarket or any Stationary Shop will be the reason why we will see more Airsoft Regulations and Bans.

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Chinese fullmetal M249? Who can afford such a thing in China? (I guess they'll cost around 700 yuan or even more) Remind me: which airsoft companies have their offices in HK? If it's not CA or VFC...

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May be so .. but I think that is an inherent built-in problem with realistic looking replica firearms aka. Airsoft in any event, regardless of how cheap it is or where they are made. In any event -- there's nothing that is going to stop the eventual shifting of the Airsoft manufacturing center to China. That's a matter of economics.

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I can't wait for this to happen. I think China will produce guns that will compete and beat TM and CA in the future, and they will cost alot less. I do fancy this idea, there is no need for the Japanese and other Asian manufacturers to set their prices so high, when it has been proven that a Chinese company can make the same gun for cheaper. Cough cough, Cyma...

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Yes there is a need for a high price - R&D is not free for the innovator. And that is the role that TM and other Japanese manufacturers have served in. Something that CYMA did not have to pay for.

 

Enough copies come out, no more innovations would be made and therefore there will be nothing new. It's good for the consumer in the short run, but bad for the sport in the long run.

 

Not to mention putting airsoft into the price range of more potential trouble makers than there already is.

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But, Japanese manufacturers will still make new models for the domestic market - and part of them will be exported too. The exported models will get reverse-engineered sooner or later, duplicated by the Chinese and sold worldwide for a fraction of the price.

Taiwanese, on the other hand, will probably still clone Japanese GBBs (with internals reinforced to take propane/green gas).

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Mmm....Go china!

 

*waits for eliteist M249 and m14 EBR owner to come and say "good guns are only for rich people*

 

P.S The above remark is not saying that all M14 EBR and M249 owners are eliteist, but you do get the occasional one ;) .

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And, Menatarms, Chinese G36 is almost done - the gearbox is ready (installed in XM8 and SL8), the body is ready (it just has a plastic g-box installed, as of yet), I guess they'll put them together in a month or so.

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It used to be .. years ago, that Taiwan was the place to be back in the late 70's to 80's to manufacture anything electronic. Those days are long gone as it costs about 5 times labor-wise not to mention other factors than to make products in China.

 

However, if you take the case of cell phones .. while most every cell phone is made in China -- the design center is located in Taiwan. So, don't just assume that in China all that will happen is copies getting made with no innovation.

 

Right now SRC makes their guns in Taiwan as far as I know. What will happen is if they want to survive in the business -- they will have to out source their production to China. But that doesn't mean the company needs to move there either.

 

May be SRC isn't really a good example of a quality AS company(give them time), but there are plenty of others in Taiwan who build their guns there, prolly thinking that quality control would be a main issue. But QC problems get solved, quality goes up. It's a function of time spent.

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Mmm....Go china!

 

*waits for eliteist M249 and m14 EBR owner to come and say "good guns are only for rich people*

 

P.S The above remark is not saying that all M14 EBR and M249 owners are eliteist, but you do get the occasional one ;) .

 

good guns are only for rich people.

 

fnar. heheheh.

 

:bleh:

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However, if you take the case of cell phones .. while most every cell phone is made in China -- the design center is located in Taiwan. So, don't just assume that in China all that will happen is copies getting made with no innovation.
It depends - actually European-based brands, like Nokia or Siemens, have their factories in Germany, Finland and Czech Republic.

Right now SRC makes their guns in  Taiwan as far as I know. What will happen is if they want to survive in the business -- they will have to out source their production to China. But that doesn't mean the company needs to move there either.
Well, if they chuck in those XYT gears, they're more than set. Anyway, where does G&G operate from? HK or Taiwan?

Airsoft to the Masses!!!!
But not to the asses - like chavs and irresponsible kids.

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Hm... how are the internals in CYMA? I've used some of their older guns and I don't think they're any good at all... but I've heard that they've been doing a better job lately. is this true?

 

(sorry, somewhat new to airsoft here...)

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Hm... how are the internals in CYMA? I've used some of their older guns and I don't think they're any good at all... but I've heard that they've been doing a better job lately. is this true?

 

(sorry, somewhat new to airsoft here...)

 

As far as I know, yep, it's true.

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"we talking about relatively low technology glorified toys."

Thats is why you fail, not to mention the fact that you need to replace the bent rulers you use for measuring. Cheap is one thing quality is another. I for one dont buy my airsoft supplies at walmart.

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I actually never seen a CYMA other than the 028 (AKS). As far as the quality -- I can't tell the difference on the polymer furniture on the 028 and Tokyo Marui. The fold-under stock is metal, so is the receiver cover. I even thought the receiver was, until my friend straighten out my confusion in that the one I saw had the light weigth (200 grams) metal body he made installed on it. I shot it, and we estimated it at 305 - 310 FPS un-modified with the standard battery that came with. About the only recommendation was to replace the plastic hop-up (which was done with the one my friend makes), and possibly the inner barrel (which he's working on now). The most stunning thing about it ... the retail price was US$47.50 in country.

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Pah - my MP5-J from CYMA, with a little tweaking, cost me only $1100HKD.

 

That includes (All prices in HKD):

 

Gun

200rnd Hicap

4 x 100rnd Midcaps

Medium gunbag.

CA Airtight nozzle with O ring

Element duracon Tappetplate

CA 6mm metal bushings

Stock TM Piston, piston head and spring with home made porting job

Systema shim set

CA Mp5 hop-up Unit

CA Mp5 6.04mm Tightbore

Guarder Clear hop-up bucking

MP5K Silencer adaptor

1 x 1200mah 8.4v mini

 

And it's still $200-300 less than a TM MP5 WITHOUT ANY ACCESORIES.

 

It's 0.8J, it's fired more than 5K rounds without a hitch and it's 1" accurate with ironsights at 20m. It even has some trademarks.

 

And to date I've had 16 people ask how much my TM Mp5-J cost.

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