Successful Canadian Airsoft Legalization (Ongoing)

[The Saint]

This for all the good people of Canada.

 

 

SafeAirsoft

 

The Successful Canadian Airsoft Legalization/Normalization Effort

 

I'm proud to unveil the existence of SafeAirsoft, my three-year-long personal effort dedicate to and succeeding in steadily reversing the illegal status of Canadian airsoft.

 

This is done. This is real. This is here.

 

Executive Summary:

• Legal opaque models of airsoft now exists in Canada.
• Fully compliant with all statutes and regulations.
• Model-by-model, brand-by-brand basis only, all subject to government preapproval.
• Private importation very unsafe.
• Two Canadian distributors, 4+ Brands, NO CHEAP CLONES.
• Price based on real cost, not "personal risk" or "rarity".
• For the first time, Canadian airsoft have an accountable option and a real future.
• This is just the beginning of my work to ensure the freedom of honest, responsible airsoft.

 

How has SafeAirsoft succeeded in helping airsoft?

 

Through my work with the Canadian government, specifically agencies like the RCMP and CBSA, I have established and tested a fully legal method to import certain brands and models of 100% opaque (non-transparent, non-tinted) airsoft guns. Airsoft guns imported, sold and bought in such a manner are done so in full compliance of Canadian law, at no risk to either the retailers or the customers.

 

There are no deceptions or loopholes involved, it is honesty and open mindedness that made this cooperation possible. I am treated as a de facto (if unofficial) expert in the field of airsoft by the two agencies.

 

What does that mean for Canadians?

 

Legality Before SafeAirsoft

• Importing - Illegal
• Buying (Includes any form of receiving) - Illegal
• Selling - Illegal
• Owning - Legal, Yet Illegal, because you cannot have something you are not allowed to buy.
• Using - Legal
• Transporting - Legal
• Grandfathering - Fake, since true Grandfathering permits passing down of the item and you cannot pass down or transfer Prohibited Devices.
• Insurance Coverage - Poor, unless your insurance company isn't paying close attention

 

Legality After SafeAirsoft (Specific Brands/Models)

• Importing - Legal
• Buying (Includes any form of receiving) - Legal
• Selling - Legal
• Owning - Legal
• Using - Legal
• Transporting - Legal
• Grandfathering - Not Applicable, since Grandfathering only applies to restricted or prohibited goods.
• Insurance Coverage - Available

 

Consumer Security Before SafeAirsoft

• Price - Inflated, based on 'Serious Personal Risk' and 'Rarity of Item'.
• Returns for Your Spending - Basically nothing, illegal airsoft supply industry does not grow without risking legal prosecution.
• Mark Up & Tax Chain - (4) Manufacturer, HK or US Wholesaler, Canadian Illegal Importer, Canadian Illegal Dealer (Also taxed twice on the wholesale end if imported from the US: HK -> US; US -> Canada).
• Fail to Deliver - No Legal Recourse, your merchandise is illegal and implicates you.
• Fraud - No Legal Recourse, your merchandise is illegal and implicates you.
• Warranty - None, disconnected from the manufacturers.
• Parts Support - Minimal, disconnected from the manufacturers.

 

Consumer Security After SafeAirsoft

• Price - Fair, based on actual upgrade cost and quality of product (Many Canadian-legal products are even specially made to be superior compared to international versions, and I don't mean the FPS).
• Returns for Your Spending - Substantial growth and expansion of ever greater legal products and services.
• Mark Up & Tax Chain - (3) Manufacturer, Canadian Legal Distributor, Canadian Legal Dealer.
• Fail to Deliver - Full Legal Recourse, no different than buying anything else, cars, computers, tables, etc.
• Fraud - Full Legal Recourse, no different than buying anything else, cars, computers, tables, etc.
• Warranty - Yes, based on manufacturers.
• Parts Support - Full, based on manufacturers. Except Receivers.

 

It is now possible for Canadian retailers (real stores, not basements) to carry opaque airsoft guns (of the models approved by the government) without violating any law. Canadian public can buy and use these airsoft guns without any hesitation about consequences. If you can expense paintball, you can expense the legal airsoft guns. In fact, these legal airsoft guns are legally equal to paintball markers, including their use.

 

This means we can finally break the cycle of relying on illegal importers and businesses for illegal opaque airsoft guns. It is now possible for someone to get into airsoft in a completely legal fashion without sacrificing that all-important realism that makes airsoft what it is, making it possible to transition Canadian airsoft into a fully legal activity without watering it down.

 

What are available?

 

Each models of each brand are subject to government approval, meaning that only select models from select brands have been approved. Models are currently available from brands such as ARES, ICS, Real Sword and VFC, with more on the way. A partial list of models include M4s, AKs, SIGs, L85s, SCARs and Tavors. More are on the way.

 

No opaque pistols, receivers or grenade launchers are legal, and it is not clear if some of them will ever be. AEPs and poor quality springers are not options.

 

Why no clone brands?

 

The RCMP is expecting a certain amount of legitimacy in the brands and models we submit. Since the Chinese clone manufacturers have their own considerable legal problems to contend with, and are more often an elusive collection of shifting factories and warehouses than a fixed (thus clearly discernable legitimate business) corporate entity, they are not a reliable source for legalized airsoft guns.

 

For example, had I not steer the Canadian companies completely clear of clones, the companies supporting this effort would have almost certainly experience large financial setbacks in any of their investment in the clone brands from the massive crackdowns in China last year.

 

Fortunately, Hong Kong follows a different set of law for airsoft, and Taiwan is Taiwan.

 

How are the pricing?

 

The prices are based on our cost, not any sort of "gun runner's risk", "rareness" or "this-just-in". You're finally paying for what you get, not how you're getting it. And while we'll still be somewhat more expensive than prices in the US (the price you pay for living in Canada), expect to see prices previously unimaginable in Canada for most models we have.

 

And because people will always ask: it is impossible to ever match Hong Kong prices, due to their lack of international shipping charges, duties and taxes. Getting guns for them is literally driving a truck across town.

 

Won't you affect Cansoft and used black gun resale prices?

 

We expect Cansoft prices to drop quite a bit. As for devaluing personal collections, unfortunately, that is the reality of where we are. It is unintentional, but also unavoidable.

 

What are the legal businesses that I would get the legal guns from?

 

The SafeAirsoft effort is sponsored by my company, OneWorld Airsoft (site not yet ready), and Mach1 Airsoft.

 

(The red pills offered by Mach1 were given to Mach1 by me in the interest of preventing any business monopoly.)

 

Can I buy your guns through your website?

 

Both companies are first and foremost, distributors, so we primarily sell to dealers. Please consult the respective company's website for purchasing details.

 

Please note that I've set a very rigorous standard of selection for OneWorld Airsoft dealers, and Mach1 has agreed to abide by my company's standards. We both believe a good way to ensure that airsoft become a strong and legitimate Canadian industry is by finding serious businesses with brick-and-mortar locations to carry our products. Our list of retailers will grow as we successfully engage good businesses, we are not simply looking for just anyone.

 

Dealers for legal opaque airsoft guns seems few and far in between?

 

Make no mistake, the rivers and streams of Canada will not suddenly be swimming with opaque airsoft guns, nor will they be growing on tree.

 

I am painfully aware of the challenges to the legal airsoft industry in Canada. This is my personal mission, my career and possibly the crowning achievement of my live's work. Thus, I am going to ensure that my business, as well as Mach1 and anyone who will listen, maintain a very carefully selected network of dealers.

 

I want future generations to have the option of legally playing or collecting airsoft when they are ready and willing. If keeping airsoft legal requires a bit of inconvenience to the consumer in terms of the number of available stores, to keep the supply from growing too quickly and beyond responsible control, I think it's worth the slight inconvenience.

 

Can I buy your guns through Airsoft Canada?

 

No, based on my proposal to and agreement with Mach1, OneWorld Airsoft will not be selling or advertising our guns on Airsoft Canada.* This is because ASC is currently supported by retailer fees from illegal importers and retailers, as well as the presence of said illegal business activities on ASC.

 

As the first ever legal opaque airsoft businesses in Canada, we cannot risk being confused with the illegal businesses by having our sales in close proximity to theirs. To do so risk having the legal opaque airsoft becoming mixed up with the illegal opaque airsoft, resulting in CBSA's indiscriminate prosecution of both.

 

We hope to be able to do business on ASC someday, but there's a long transition on the part of ASC before that is possible.

 

Please do not PM me on ASC about buying airsoft guns. I cannot and will not provide backdoor retail sales service.

 

*Mach1 has elected to continue its businesses activities on and financial support of ASC for purposes of airsoft BBs. Please do not make his position uncomfortable by attempting to solicit gun sale from him on ASC.

 

Do I have to be Age Verified by ASC to buy from you?

 

You have to prove yourself to be 18+* based on the SafeAirsoft system, but you do not have to be Aged Verified by ASC.

 

In fact, it is necessary for us to distance ourselves from the ASC AV System. Again, this is based on my proposal to Mach1, so it is my position for better or worst.

 

The simple fact is that ASC AV System supports the largest illegal black airsoft gun market in Canada, something that we as legal distributors cannot be a part of. This is the big break the Canadian airsoft community has been looking for over the last decade. When people dreamed about a legal Canadian airsoft industry, they were dreaming about this. And as the leading businesses in this start up sector, it is not enough to just run a business, it's necessary to keep the cleanest image possible. The future legitimacy of the Canadian airsoft scene is dependent on our first step.

 

Second, ASC AV System provides no liability protection for businesses. All it does is prove the individual is 18+, without requiring the individuals to consent to strict terms of sale. This is not necessary a problem for ASC itself, but it is something critical to us. Since we are emphasizing sales at physical stores, it makes more sense for us to ID our own customers, and make sure they formally acknowledge the seriousness of what they are buying at the same time.

 

An alternate system sponsored by my business (and maybe Mach1) is being put into place under the banner of SafeAirsoft. It is not intended to compete with ASC's AV, but rather to fill the void left by ASC and to ensure that both my company and Mach1 can cooperatively ensure strict standards on age and terms of sales. There are many Age Verification systems separate from ASC: almost every province has one.

 

*Our dealers are permitted to make exceptions for minors with a valid Minor's Firearms Licence. Again, my proposal, don't blame Mach1.

 

Since the requirement for a MFL is immense (parental consent, plus PAL course fee, plus class room time, plus PAL written test, plus PAL hands on test, plus PAL application fee, plus licence processing waiting period, plus it is the government's own verification process) compared to simply being 18+ (driver's licence, done). Thus we see no reason to act on own accord (since there is no actual law against minors and airsoft) to bar minors that have been trained and certified by the Canadian government to operate real firearms from our products. All MFL purchases must be done in person, and our dealers maintain the full right to reject any buyers that make them uncomfortable, licensed or otherwise.

 

Of course, parental involvement remains paramount, and stores are free to reject sales to minors even with a MFL. And ultimately, individual hosts decide whether minors can play.

 

Do you make special orders?

 

Not at this time, though it is something the companies and SafeAirsoft are working towards. The legality of importing a wide mix of unapproved model makes any current attempts impractical and dangerous, and a topic not fully addressed in our work with the Canadian government.

 

Can I import airsoft via your method?

 

No. My successful method involves manufacturer, CBSA and RCMP cooperation. It is not a practical way to do personal importations. Currently, all personal importations still carry a very high likelihood of confiscation by the CBSA.

 

Please also keep in mind that nothing has change in the fact that foreign dealers are not responsible to ensure that you receive your order. You are solely responsible for the failure of any importation. My effort here does not constitute any sort of means to pressure foreign dealers to ensure that they guarantee delivery. Buyers beware.

 

Is this the end of illegal airsoft?

 

Not quite, this is the beginning of legal airsoft. Illegal airsoft will only end when people stop supporting it.

 

There is still much work ahead for my effort, years of work requiring the backing of the Canadian community, before the legitimate position of airsoft is fully cemented in Canada. We are off to a good start, though.

 

The SafeAirsoft effort comprises of the following stages (some stages overlap):

1. Original legal and government research Completed
2. Establishment of SafeAirsoft Completed
3. Creation of defence for use Completed
4. Creation of defence for transfer Completed
5. Creation of defence for modification Completed
6. Creation and test of general importation procedure Completed
7. Public announcement Completed
8. Legitimate and responsible industry development
9. Creation and test of additional importation procedures
10. Establishing and promoting Canadian airsoft sports organizations

 

Why can we not have both legal guns and illegal guns?

 

The community is definitely grateful for the illegal businesses keeping the quality of airsoft from plunging into the transparent abyss. These illegal guns formed the root of the majority of our involvement in airsoft and kept the community from dying off.

 

By the same token, it was also the illegality of the guns that drove my effort. As Canadians, we shouldn't have to break the law for a constructive and respectable sport. I've now made sure we won't have to. The days of the community relying on persons risking a criminal record to supply good airsoft is finally over.

 

If Canadian airsoft was a drowning person, that person is now in the shallows. We have legal businesses with quality opaque airsoft guns to strengthen the position of airsoft in Canada previously unthinkable. With the success of my effort, we can be at the forefront of the international airsoft scene, instead of being jealous and envious of the success of others.

 

What separates your "legal" guns from their "illegal" guns?

 

There are two ways illegal airsoft guns enter Canada:

1. Illegal guns are smuggled undetected into the country.
2. Using a Business Firearms Licence, illegal guns are declared as replica firearms/prohibited devices under tariff code 98.98.00.00 and imported for specific Prescribed Purposes listed in the Firearm Licences Regulations. However, instead of importing to satisfy the specific Prescribed Purposes in the Firearm Licences Regulations, the guns are resold to the public. This is a straight abuse of the Business Firearms Licence, something like having a demolitions permit to buy explosives and reselling the explosives to the public. This is what Will Wong of Specarms was successfully prosecuted and sentenced for in British Columbia, a sentence he should still be serving. And because these airsoft guns entered the country classified as prohibited devices, they cannot be legally transferred to individuals or unlicensed businesses, which implicates both resellers and customers in this illegal scheme.

 

Our legal airsoft guns are imported in the same classification as paintball markets and pellet guns. They are Deemed Non-Firearms (or Uncontrolled Firearms, as CBSA calls them), because they are classified as firearms (capable of inflicting serious bodily injury) that do not meet the licensing and registration requirements (meaning they are still below 500fps and 5.7 Joules). Our airsoft guns are imported at over 430FPS with 0.20g, which fully satisfies the legal requirement of the RCMP and CBSA.

 

All our guns have been tested and documented by the RCMP, and our models are classified separately from international models that do not meet Canadian legal requirements. We import our airsoft guns with the expressly stated intent of public sales, the RCMP preapproved our guns knowing that we will be selling these airsoft guns to the public, the CBSA clears our guns knowing the same.

 

Do we have to play at that energy level?

 

No, the requirement is that the guns are proven to be capable of firing at the necessary level during importation, since that is the point at which any inspection or reclassification may happen. This has to do with the very definition of firearm, found in s. 2 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

 

“firearm” means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm;

 

Since any downgrade we make are not permanent, the classification of the gun remains unchanged. Similarly, dialling down the FPS on a paintball marker does not change its classification, nor does modifying a pellet gun, nor does putting a Simunition barrel in a real firearm. The classification of a firearm is determined by its proven maximum performance, not any temporary reduction in performance. The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled this interpretation to be the correct in cases like R. v. Covin [1983].

 

Once the guns are inside Canada, both my company and Mach1 have committed ourselves to downgrading the guns before they hit the airsoft market. We know that a large percentage of our sales will be to new customers, who are less likely to be able to successfully downgrade airsoft guns. We do not want to risk releasing a large number of hot guns into the market. We ask that the community keep us (and any other companies) honest and remind us to stay the course on this decision.

 

What about all the black guns already inside Canada?

 

Unfortunately, once a gun enters Canada illegally, there is little that can be done to improve its legality that cannot be construed by the courts as an attempt to circumvent the law (because you are). My advice is that if you have an illegal black gun, just keep it. Don't sell it or get rid of it, just keep it. The vast majority of potential legal problem surrounding your illegal opaque airsoft gun has to do with transferring it. If you simply keep it, there is much less to worry about.

 

The hope is that, with enough time, the amount of legal airsoft guns will overtake the old illegal guns. Eventually, though still definitely present, the old illegal guns will be such a small minority as to be irrelevant.

 

I would personally just buy an opaque airsoft gun from the start. After all, isn't that the point of all of this?

 

So if I buy a legal airsoft gun from you, I would be a firearm owner?

 

Yes, and if you buy a paintball marker or a pellet gun (under 500FPS and 5.7 Joules), you are also a firearm owner. It does not matter what the devices look like. The Canadian definition of firearm is first and foremost a matter of performance and the notion of serious bodily harm. Serious bodily harm in Canada jurisprudence is based on catastrophic eye trauma, either penetration or rupture. Lesser damages have not been regarded as serious bodily injury in Canadian legal tradition.

 

It can be indistinguishable from a banana, but if it shoots a dangerous projectile, it's a firearm. This is done to ensure maximum prosecution against any criminal who attempts to use any gun in a crime.

 

So if I use my legal airsoft gun at a game, I'd be pointing a firearm at someone?

 

Only in the same way you would be when playing paintball. Canadian law makes exceptions for such situations, largely thanks to the existence of paintball. So, a little less paintball bashing would be a good idea. Paintball, whether we like it or not, is our brother-in-arms. We either hang together now, or we'll be hung separately later.

 

Doesn't that mean the police can pay me surprise visits, because I have a firearm?

 

No, the provisions that grants the police the authority to inspect your firearms is from the Firearms Act. Since your airsoft gun, paintball marker or pellet gun are Deemed Non-Firearms, they are excluded from all provisions of the Firearms Act under s. 84(3) of the Criminal Code.

 

Why can't I import guns myself at that energy level?

 

We are successful at what we do because all our guns are manufactured and labelled specifically for Canada, then documented by the RCMP as Deemed Non-Firearms. We have our company's and our manufacturer's liability behind our declaration to the RCMP and CBSA that each gun in all of our orders fulfill Canadian legal requirements.

 

Most airsoft guns on the market cannot meet the performance requirement in the stock configuration. You would have to get them upgraded, and then prove that upgrade to the satisfaction of the CBSA. Without manufacturer and Canadian distributor's assurance, plus RCMP pre-approval, the CBSA unlikely to believe that your Marui in fact fires at the necessary energy level (even if it has been upgraded overseas). While failure is not guaranteed, it is still risky. As a rule, it is completely up to the CBSA whether they send your guns to be tested. If there are hundreds of people trying to import their own guns, CBSA may simply start refusing to test any of them.

 

This general refusal to cooperate by the CBSA is more likely than you think, as airsoft remains a sensitive issue for the CBSA. Businesses conducting organized importation with carefully filed documentation is one thing, hundreds and hundreds of private individuals attempting to import anything and everything airsoft will almost certainly lead to some form of negative reaction by CBSA.

 

As I've said, we are hoping to work out a method to make special orders possible in the future. Until then, I would strongly advise against self importation.

 

1. Of course, people will try to do so anyways, so my advice is:
2. Don't waste time importing anything that's already available in Canada. It is not only not worth the risk, but you're sending your money outside of your country.
3. Remember to factor in currency conversion, taxes, duties, shipping and brokerage fee when planning your purchase.
4. Don't waste CBSA's time by importing crappy guns. If you're going to clog the system, at least buy something nice.
5. At least have the good sense of importing guns that actually meet the legal criteria.
6. Never lie to CBSA, that includes declared value.
7. Always assume and prepare for the worst.
8. In the event your gun is detained, always negotiate with CBSA with the utmost patience and politeness. Remember that they don't have to take ###### from you.

 

Why call your effort "SafeAirsoft"? Isn't it technically "SaveAirsoft"?

 

SafeAirsoft better captures the fact that I am trying to make airsoft better overall, it's more appropriate for the comprehensive way I see the future of Canadian airsoft. SaveAirsoft implies that I'm only trying to make airsoft possible, which is not the case.

 

The origin of SafeAirsoft:

 

The eureka moment of SafeAirsoft can be traced back to this post, made nearly 3 years ago.

 

Thanks for the idea and support, Mcguyver. Cynics are just on the other side of the same coin as optimists; it takes both sides of the coin joined together to be worth anything.

 

What can I do to help?

 

Simple:

1. Support your Canadian legal businesses.
2. Less time QQ about airsoft online, more actually getting outside and responsibly enjoying airsoft.
3. Start introducing more (good) people to airsoft, people that traditionally would have been turned off by the illicit nature of the guns.
4. Get your firearms licence. Not because you need it for airsoft, not even because you should own a firearm. It is about showing support.
5. Join the Shooting Federation of Canada. Put "Airsoft" down as your discipline.
6. Special - International Dealers, please respect Canadian law and continue to carefully handle orders from Canada.

 

[user7]

I good step for Canadian airsofters, although its far from the strides in Romania.

 

the coles notes version - while previously canadians had to make due with airsoft guns that do not look like guns (clear plastic recievers, jg maul), recent developments as chronicled above means that airsoft guns that shoot between 407 and 500 fps/ less than 5.7joules are classified similar to pellet guns and paintball markers.

 

each model imported of each brand must be verified by the police (RCMP) and ok-ed by customs.the upside to this is the legal designation of some aegs and a clamp down on large mark-ups (common to be 200-300% of usd number). to give an example; I paid $550 CAD for an ics mp5 a4 in 2005, and the exchange rate at the time was about 0.80 usd to 1 cad/ or 1.25 cad to 1 usd.

 

 

[GI0VANNI]

As "illegal importer" in my country y applaud your effor but see some weak points:

1º You even recognice the "labor" made by illegal importers and illegal airsoft "guns" but now you dont even give them any option.

2º You state about 4/5 "legal" importers, is it a "cluster" or just like canadian liquor importation sistem given a second wash to apply for airsoft guns?

3º No clones why? cheaper, good quality, send a laboral inspector to the chinese/taiwanesse... factories and say it is for explotation, human rights and such violations, not "because just more expensive brands do OK" (I could think that not even marui does 100% or audi or pontiac or nike as many parts nowadays are build in china, india...

4º No legal private player importing?? why not? just pay your taxes but avoid the intermediate price raiser.

5º Good effor but this sound to me more like a "well, airsoft shop owners, we got a good market, lets close it and every one take his cake portion before we close to new participants"

[Mike_West]

After reading, I can safely say it's mostly smoke and mirrors. To become a true normalization of airsoft in Canada, it should consider ALL manufactures and ALL types of replicas. Now it's just a load of *suitcase* designed to make some folks feel good with no real effect.

[WhiteHawksan]

sounds to me, more like the government being obstinate about what you can and can't import, however, if they cut out such a large portion of the market. I.e. clones, then its really doomed to fail, or reather end up as a minor little side market where you can buy legal guns in canada.

[tome]

To be fair to the OP, he didn't say no personal imports. He just says that they are risky as there's no official certification of the product you might be trying to import.

 

The argument is, that the companies approached have agreed to make "Canadian-spec" models (guaranteed 430 fps) and label them as such so that Customs will recognise it and let it through. Obviously a lot of ACM can already do 430 fps out of the box but this will be at the discretion of Customs whether they bother to test the ACM or just trash it.

 

The Saint, I applaud your efforts in getting at least some airsoft replicas officially recognise by the authorities. I look forward to rebuilding my ICS m4 when I eventually move to Canada

 

For those that wish to critisise the OP over not fighting for personal imports and such.... look.... He's got a business to run and support. Any business man would like to see a return on investmen (in this case time and money spent to set this import method up) so it would be lunacy to expect him to spend time/money fighting for personal imports as well as imports for his business. If i was the OP I would also have an agreement in place (he probably does) with the manufacturers so that Can-spec AEG will only be supplied to the OP's company. It's not being selfish, it's just good business sense.

 

[Furey]

sounds like you've been working hard there. Good progress, but I would suggest that safeairsoft should be run by a retailers association at least, and not be in the hands of one retailer.

[uscmCorps]

As "illegal importer" in my country y applaud your effor but see some weak points:

1º You even recognice the "labor" made by illegal importers and illegal airsoft "guns" but now you dont even give them any option.

2º You state about 4/5 "legal" importers, is it a "cluster" or just like canadian liquor importation sistem given a second wash to apply for airsoft guns?

3º No clones why? cheaper, good quality, send a laboral inspector to the chinese/taiwanesse... factories and say it is for explotation, human rights and such violations, not "because just more expensive brands do OK" (I could think that not even marui does 100% or audi or pontiac or nike as many parts nowadays are build in china, india...

4º No legal private player importing?? why not? just pay your taxes but avoid the intermediate price raiser.

5º Good effor but this sound to me more like a "well, airsoft shop owners, we got a good market, lets close it and every one take his cake portion before we close to new participants"

1: People had the same options as they did in the past. Illegal importers can still import illegally ... that hasn't changed. If anything, it gives the consumer MORE options now that legal alternatives are available and at a much reduced rate. The only people this really effects are the illegal importers who exclusively brought in illegal product with the intent to capitalize on the need and desperation of others. They have my condolences over no longer being able to break the law and take advantage of their fellow man.

2: I don't understand this point.

3: So you would suggest that someone should go to China under the false pretense of inspecting for "exploitation, human rights and other such violations" when you're really there to approve illegal products in a country that has deemed the import, export, and manufacture of said products as illegal? That's not the right approach to legitimizing Canadian Airsoft. The Canadian government would never sanction such an approach. Unfortunately, you're essentially at the government's mercy, and when trying to make something legal that had previously been illegal, you need to work within THEIR comfort levels, not yours. Everything should be done as legally as possible, from start to finish. Fine, let's go "inspect" those Mainland China factories. Oh wait, we can't because they've been chased off their property and are having to move to another illegal factory producing illegal product. Whether or not ACM airsoft is good or bad for the majority of the airsoft world is a totally other conversation, but right now I can't see it being good for the start of the legalized Canadian Airsoft industry and governmental approval of said industry. In the future that may change.

4: Small steps. Private importation may be possible in the future ... once the process has been well established, and the international retailers and the Canadian Government are comfortable with the situation, there may be more options to buyers. OneWorld Airsoft and Mach1 Airsoft are well aware of the new import limitations and are required to adhere to them which I don't doubt they'll do exactly if they hope to make this work. Private buyers may or may not import what is considered legal. The Canadian Government/Customs will be keeping a close eye on these products as they come in. If they see a tsunami of airsoft guns that don't meet the criteria, they may just say screw it, everything airsoft related is illegal again. Sometimes is wiser to work within the limits of a new law first rather than immediately test to see how far you can push them.

5: Did you actually read the first post? It doesn't sound anything like your fifth point. OneWorld Airsoft and Mach1 Airsoft are businesses and any legit business needs to look to the future and what's the best method of making as much money legally as possible. Only catering to the current community of Canadian airsofters will yield a good sales potential, but those numbers are nothing compared to all the potential untapped Canadian consumers out there who had been put off by airsoft for whatever reason. These legit retailers are looking to the far off future and to ensuring they have a business many years down the road.

 

 

After reading, I can safely say it's mostly smoke and mirrors. To become a true normalization of airsoft in Canada, it should consider ALL manufactures and ALL types of replicas. Now it's just a load of *suitcase* designed to make some folks feel good with no real effect.

In good time. It's not like their intention is to never ever have all manufacturers and all types of replicas legalized. But they have to start somewhere. If to get a sport legalized, they have to do so with some restrictions, it's a small sacrifice as they work towards opening more doors in the future. This whole process requires patience. You can't jump to the end goal when the government is reticent and cautious about even the start of it.

 

sounds to me, more like the government being obstinate about what you can and can't import, however, if they cut out such a large portion of the market. I.e. clones, then its really doomed to fail, or reather end up as a minor little side market where you can buy legal guns in canada.

Fail? Hardly. Consider this: Canadian Airsofters are used to paying double to triple the price US (and perhaps UK) consumers pay. Those who have purchased "illegal" airsoft in Canada in the past can continue to purchase airsoft but now legally and at a much more reduced price. For them, buying a VFC from a legitimate retailer will now feel (relative to what they're used to) more like when you in the UK buy a cheap clone gun. For them, everything is going to seem ridiculously cheap, but to you and me, still a little on the expensive side (but our opinions on their prices are irrelevant as we're not buying there).

Also, don't forget that prior to the introduction of the ACM Airsoft Gun, for many years airsofters had been used to paying high prices for airsoft guns. It's a paradigm most airsofters today can't relate to. In a way, airsofters today have it easy. What's happening in Canada is hardly going to doom the airsoft industry there, nor make it a small side market. If anything, it'll allow more Canadians who have been interested in the sport but put off by the illicit nature of the sport or the high expense to invest in it, those people can now partake.

 

I'm interested to hear more comments from Canadian Airsofters and how they feel about this as it directly affects them.

 

Good work, Saint!

[GI0VANNI]

DO NOT WHANT A FLAME WAR BUT I THINK I SHOULD EXPLAIN BETTER MY OBJETIONS TO YOUR IDEA, sorry for such big post, if you are not canadian nor interested in this skip.

 

Executive Summary:

· Legal opaque models of airsoft now exists in Canada.

You mean that for the moment just clear ones are legal? And PARTICULARS/SELLERS painting them or importing opaque ones are smuglers, against law, no mather they are a brick and mortar shop or an internet webshop or an individual from his couch. Once you finish your job in the first step opaque ones selled by you and your afiliate to brick shops wil lbe available legally to particulars using your age probation not ASC, as they are supponting the black market while you are legal and as you have this project you are only legal importer.

· Fully compliant with all statutes and regulations.

You mean that ARES, ICS, Real Sword and VFC, but no marui, G&P, systema, G&G have sent to you canadian specs aprovation from your canadian laws? No, you are trying to get this converted in a law, so you do not have these, and if you have imported opaques in any moment you are also a smugler them? Or a Marui... airsoft gun, I mean. I talked also about “why no clones” trying to say that if you ban them you should give a serious and definitive proof, not just the “they are made in unknown facilities for me an will not spend a trip there to see” that I think I understand from your post.

· Model-by-model, brand-by-brand basis only, all subject to government preapproval.

This has SENSE, by far, I am OK with this part, let “canadian ATF” inspect a model made by each company to see they are not real, nor able to fire live anmo and under 430?? Fps and them anyone should be able to import as a particular or business these legaliced models, but who will pay the “inspected one”? use your organization to fund this asking for little money from each smugler and legal shop, sure they are interested in increasing the market (no, they prefer being illegal except the brick shops that will have to buy from you or the other wholesaler I understand involved in your work) I am sure that ASC can raise funds if each user donates say 1$, after all they are the biggest black market opaque dealers supporters.

· Private importation very unsafe.

Sorry? Why? I just have to shop in a shop from outside my country that deserves my confidence, pay my importing taxes and done, dady government gets his cake portion, I have legally imported goods, I can not ask for VAT reimburse as I do not file VAT importing/seller documents as I am not a shop, so I get cheaper airsoft guns and government higher vat income. Maybe you are referring to “CONSUMER PROTECTION” I understand this part, but as most of the shops just offer a 15 days, maybe 30 days guaranty instead the “2 years guaranty for consumers” stated in mi country (this just covers factory defects) I can deal with it for sure.

· Two Canadian distributors, 4+ Brands, NO CHEAP CLONES.

Here is the main claim for me, you and your friends taking decissions on who you resell, what brand you import and so, and as in the first stage at least clones are banned, I assume you are about profit rises (20% in a 400$ gun is better than 20% in a 90$ gun, I understand), and if I am not happy with this I can go to hell as clones are opaques (banned). MONOPOLIO is a word that comes to my mind as cluster, pression group and illegal price manipulation, only problem is that if youget your petiton transformed in a law it is OK, like when I have to pay my % every time I but a CD for my photos os a pen drive or a TV, radio, mobile phone with mp3 or camera... in Spain (this is LEGAL, not fair, I mean).

· Price based on real cost, not "personal risk" or "rarity".

Do undertand the economics in your petition, not the rarity or personal risk, the real cost is what? For me is the (using incoterms) EW (ex works, that means factory price) cost, plus shipping, plus importing fees. Now I have to think that your organization has also warehouses, legal and administrative personnel, advertisements and more hidden costs I can not think about now, also the same happens with the brick stores you have decided to sell to (or not) so the price raises including 2 more steps. If you had said “price based in just an honest 20% profit margin from the cost to the final price, being my organization the ones that have to get LOWER costs for the shops I serve so that the final customer is not overcharged” I would applaud

· For the first time, Canadian airsoft have an accountable option and a real future.

How long has airsoft been in the black side of the street to have no future until this? It is easy for me understand this meaning:“For the first time my family and living funds have an accountable and real future”. You have a bussines idea and intermediates are the ones that get the bigger money for the bigger effor, suppose you have been involved in airsoft for some time, and in bussines and applaud you idea, not the way you try to succed in bussines. I always said that the only way to get rich with airsoft guns is robbering a bank, sorry.

· This is just the beginning of my work to ensure the freedom of honest, responsible airsoft.

Would prefer if you talk about BIO bbs to keep that canadian forest PVC free, black list for cheater players, an “age proof list” secure as the one from ASC is not good (beacuse they support the black market opaque dealers, I remember, not that they have problems like the one that happenend in UKARA, the UK retailers organization that had brick shops having legaliced playgrounds not doing their work to sell particulars RIFs.

 

 

 

[watase]

I think most of you that read Saints post are misunderstanding a few things..

 

1. It's currently ILLEGAL to bring in fully coloured guns. Transparent guns (or at least transparent receivers) are legal, due to the fact they don't look real. When Saint refers to 'personally' importing, he's referring to that; importing fully black guns on a personal level, which is highly illegal, as its considered importing a restricted item. I'm sure in the future, should the airsoft gun laws relax a bit, I doubt Saint would really care who brings them in.

 

2. When he refers to himself and Mach1 as being the only suppliers, that's probably just a beginning to get a foothold in, and to prove to the government that we can be responsible, and import everything legally.

 

 

Edit: 3. Only a few brands are legal now, because they have agreed to ship guns that meet our legal import requirements. They have to be proven to inflict bodily harm (haha). Anyway, its a step in the right direction I say. A few brands that have all legal trademarks, and no shady backgrounds to them is the way to prove to the government that we're about doing this legally. Clones may be possible down the road, but if you want government support, its best to side with the companies who are working within the law. (Canada is very against copyright infringement usually, lol).

 

Edit again: "MONOPOLY is a word that comes to my mind as cluster, pression group and illegal price manipulation" It may be a monopoly at first, but then again, most this usually happens when something becomes legal. As soon as there is more competition, there will be no way he can stay the only distributor. He is working mostly alone in getting this legalized, and as many have said already, this is the BEGINNING. Besides, how is it price manipulation, if anything, he's "manipulating" prices LOWER than what they currently are, how is that bad? A VFC M4 (for example) a few months back, would've been $1200+, now they're going to retail it around $600-$700. I don't care if the US, UK, or whoever else can get them cheaper, the fact is, we haven't been able to get them this cheap, and now we can. It might not seem like a lot for you, but this is HUGE for us.

[WhiteHawksan]

I feel uscmCorp makes some pretty good points there, my main concern is where personal business interest overtake the good of the airsoft in Canada, such as I have found to be the case in internal English sales were there are only a very few 'big' companies, and everyone else buys off them. Giving the very few importers essentially a monopoly. And my concern is that Mach1 and him wil guide legislation towards them being the only legal importers and having a monopoly on price, stifling competition later in the day.

[watase]

And my concern is that Mach1 and him wil guide legislation towards them being the only legal importers and having a monopoly on price, stifling competition later in the day.

 

In all things business, that is definately possible. Mind you, even if they do stifle competition, it's still better for the consumer this way, as the guns are significantly cheaper. Mind you, there are many Canadians who wouldn't stand by and let that happen. It's a process, and as far as anyone (government) is concerned, if you speak to the same people, you can usually get the same things (as long as you can pony up the money for it, haha).

 

I don't see how they can steer legislation their way, the law will never state "Only Mach1 and Saint have the legal right to do this". They may try to keep it their own for a while, but inevitably some day someone would find out who Saint speaks to, or figure out the right channels to go down and do it that way.

 

It was the same similar situation when we first got transparent G&G guns, one retailer basically pioneered it himself, and many others followed suit. I assume this will end up like that eventually.

[IronOverlord]

Don't try to figure out Canadian gun laws, let alone the status and importation of airsoft guns. It is an excercise in futility hahahahahahahaha and you will just end up with a headache.

[-Angel-]

I feel uscmCorp makes some pretty good points there, my main concern is where personal business interest overtake the good of the airsoft in Canada, such as I have found to be the case in internal English sales were there are only a very few 'big' companies, and everyone else buys off them. Giving the very few importers essentially a monopoly. And my concern is that Mach1 and him wil guide legislation towards them being the only legal importers and having a monopoly on price, stifling competition later in the day.

You'll have to explain how that effects someone living in the UK...

 

You'll also have to explain how you came to the conclusion this is all a big conspiracy for people to make a big pile of money. Getting a whole hobby/sport recognised and legislated for one AEG at a time seems a long way to go for a few C$.

[watase]

You'll have to explain how that effects someone living in the UK...

 

You'll also have to explain how you came to the conclusion this is all a big conspiracy for people to make a big pile of money. Getting a whole hobby/sport recognised and legislated for one AEG at a time seems a long way to go for a few C$.

 

 

It makes no difference to anyone in the UK unless you plan to move here.

 

It is a HUGE way to go, yeah maybe the profit will be small in the beginning, but no one said he was stopping there. Everything has to start somewhere, and this is Canada's start. Going from an outright BAN on fully black guns? This is a huge step in the direction of legal airsoft here.

 

The UK has UKARA at least, so you probably dont know what it's like here. To know that you can now legally purchase a full black (or coloured) gun is huge. Myself included, I've personally been looking at airsoft stuff for years, but was put off by the idea of purchasing an "illegal" gun. No legal recourse should anything go wrong... No thanks. Now I'll have no problems, again, this is a START, no one said he's finished, or that he won't try to get more in the future.

 

But with Canada's laws on airguns, it has to be above a certain limit to be legal. Japanese guns usually shoot too slow to be considered legal here, thats why they aren't on the list.

[RacingManiac]

I feel uscmCorp makes some pretty good points there, my main concern is where personal business interest overtake the good of the airsoft in Canada, such as I have found to be the case in internal English sales were there are only a very few 'big' companies, and everyone else buys off them. Giving the very few importers essentially a monopoly. And my concern is that Mach1 and him wil guide legislation towards them being the only legal importers and having a monopoly on price, stifling competition later in the day.

 

 

Thats easy to negate, since if their price ceasing to be competitive with the illegal items, people won't buy it and will go back to the old route. If you look at the brands thats being worked with right now, they are mid-high level stuff, which comes easily with lots of markup in Canada. If they ends up being cheaper than what it is now, its a win for the consumer.

 

 

The main impact for this is on the retail level, but not really the ownership. It was legal to "own" before, it is still now. But it was not legal for you to obtain it, but once in hand, it is no longer an issue per se. But now you can go out and buy through this channel, which is an improvement by tens of thousands of mile....and eventually the selection will be there, and looking at the OEs involved, pretty wide range of product can be expected...

 

Still sucks for pistols, but that wasn't going to change easily anyway....

 

[watase]

Still sucks for pistols, but that wasn't going to change easily anyway....

 

You never know.. Normal Gas guns yeah, it'll be hard to get them, but CO2 guns can probably be made to shoot fast enough. Obviously pellet/bb guns can, I don't see why it would be too hard to make an airsoft CO2 pistol shoot fast enough.

 

Then down the road, they may relax a bit, but granted that is a long shot.

[uscmCorps]

Edit: 3. Only a few brands are legal now, because they have agreed to ship guns that meet our legal import requirements. They have to be proven to inflict bodily harm (haha). Anyway, its a step in the right direction I say. A few brands that have all legal trademarks, and no shady backgrounds to them is the way to prove to the government that we're about doing this legally. Clones may be possible down the road, but if you want government support, its best to side with the companies who are working within the law.

This is a very good and important point. In order for this whole thing to work requires that both the exporter and importer are meeting the government standards. It's only a matter of time before the rest of the non-ACM companies jump on the band wagon as there's a lot of money to be made there. As for the ACM companies, another part of my concern with them is whether or not they can consistently meet those standards. The stock ACM guns I come across often have whatever springs they had on hand and vary from batch to batch (often gun to gun) considerably. The higher end manufacturers aren't perfect in that regard, but they're more consistent. And it's in their best interest to get more predictable FPS results in their stock guns if they want to sell to Canada.

 

I feel uscmCorp makes some pretty good points there, my main concern is where personal business interest overtake the good of the airsoft in Canada, such as I have found to be the case in internal English sales were there are only a very few 'big' companies, and everyone else buys off them. Giving the very few importers essentially a monopoly. And my concern is that Mach1 and him wil guide legislation towards them being the only legal importers and having a monopoly on price, stifling competition later in the day.

What you're proposing is entirely possible and the concerns are valid. But I think we need to remind ourselves that you can't assume a certain setup will always yield the same results, especially when different people are involved. Is it possible they'll manipulate the system to their sole advantage? Yes. However, it is also possible they'll stay the course and make the right choices that benefit all who are involved. I don't think anyone is deluding themselves to believe this is a completely selfless act on their behalf (businesses rarely are), but it seems prudent to give them the opportunity to prove that this is indeed in the Canadian Airsofters' best interest. Let's wait and see.

[adadqgg]

If somehow SRC is imported into Canada, then this may not fail yet.

 

SRC makes pretty cheap, non-clone-quality(because if you must be strict, almost all AEG are clones of TM...), airsoft weapons with nice externals and internals, with sub $200 price tag(specifically the G36 series).

[kullwarrior]

If somehow SRC is imported into Canada, then this may not fail yet.

 

SRC makes pretty cheap, non-clone-quality(because if you must be strict, almost all AEG are clones of TM...), airsoft weapons with nice externals and internals, with sub $200 price tag(specifically the G36 series).

So...

KSC, KWA, Western Arms, Systema, STAR, VFC are all clones? AFAIK Marui Gearbox patent expired quite a long time ago.

When these guys copy, they copy the concept, not the entire thing then cut corners like China.

 

Giovanni: Stop posting, no offense all I hear from you is lack of understanding and making personal attacks

[watase]

If somehow SRC is imported into Canada, then this may not fail yet.

 

SRC makes pretty cheap, non-clone-quality(because if you must be strict, almost all AEG are clones of TM...), airsoft weapons with nice externals and internals, with sub $200 price tag(specifically the G36 series).

 

SRC already has some guns here, mind you they have transparent receivers (at least the illegal to import part of the receiver anyway).

[teetee]

Saint, kudos to you for your efforts & successes in getting airsoft recognized in my home country. The sport needs more people like you to achieve the necessary validation from both government and mass society. Airsoft walks the fine line between a fun day out and highly controversial militaristic activities, and that line needs to be clearly drawn out for the benefit of all.

 

Disregard the sideline commentators, I for one wish we had a similar united movement here in the UK that effected such change.

[frogfish]

Also, don't forget that prior to the introduction of the ACM Airsoft Gun, for many years airsofters had been used to paying high prices for airsoft guns. It's a paradigm most airsofters today can't relate to. In a way, airsofters today have it easy.

 

this is something that 90% of airsofters today can't relate to. It's amazing how much CA changed things when they cloned the TM mechbox, but it took someone like UTG to pop out a decentish quality replica for under $100, and that truly changed the industry. It's crazy how much has changed in five years.

 

 

This is a good thing, the illegal market is very bad for airsoft in canada and can lead towards it's complete ban. Now as for what brands are carried, it's just to begin with I would expect to see many more valid brands to come, these "clone" companies for the most part are not real, they use kickbacks and schemes to avoid the chinese government and are themselves illegal, and an airsoft industry that relies on the sale of illegally produced products is one that is destined to fail.

[Maple-Leaf]

GO CANADA!!

 

Ice Hockey win for the Gold last night over the US - and now legal airsoft too. :-)

 

Brilliant achievement Saint - well done!!! Never mind the off-track comments from non-Canadians who can't see the simple truth and logic in what you wrote and what you've done. Or that this is just the start - "from tiny acorns, mighty oaks grow".

 

Well done again on a brilliant achievment.

[WhiteHawksan]

this is something that 90% of airsofters today can't relate to. It's amazing how much CA changed things when they cloned the TM mechbox, but it took someone like UTG to pop out a decentish quality replica for under $100, and that truly changed the industry. It's crazy how much has changed in five years.

 

If you're goignto talk about airsoft get your fact straight. UTG have NEVER and will NEVER make any gun. Ever. They're like Ecbho 1, just money grabbers who put stickers on guns and rack up the price.

 

This is a good thing, the illegal market is very bad for airsoft in canada and can lead towards it's complete ban. Now as for what brands are carried, it's just to begin with I would expect to see many more valid brands to come, these "clone" companies for the most part are not real, they use kickbacks and schemes to avoid the chinese government and are themselves illegal, and an airsoft industry that relies on the sale of illegally produced products is one that is destined to fail.

 

I do believe its gone from strength to strength and then some.

 

 

An I agree with Maple-Leaf, this is a good thing, but I stil air my concern that it could turn into a monopoly with him and Mach1 being the ONLY legal importers, thus having a price monopoly, and as much as popel say yes its WAY cheaper than now, its still morally wrong to unfairly jack up the price simply as there is no competition and I bet its a hell of a tempting option. But it IS however the biggest step in the right direction there can be and he has my full support (not that it actually means anything )