blackdiamond Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 TM G17 - 134a only. I've a 2 week old TM G17 and have run it on green gas 2 days. Both time the slide has managed to blow half off the rails and jam badly. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 TM G17 - 134a only. I've a 2 week old TM G17 and have run it on green gas 2 days. Both time the slide has managed to blow half off the rails and jam badly. Maybe stating ambient temperature and the gas used would help. Because Guarders 220psi green gas at 30C is something completely different from ex. Guarders regular 140psi gas at 20C... Not just you specifically but a tip in general. Link to post Share on other sites
snowman Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 This is the problem with this whole thread. Most guns are quite safe on Green Gas in appropriately low temperatures, whilst some guns people in Northern Europe or the USA state as "100% Green Gas safe" wouldn't be in Hong Kong or the Phillipines! I, for example, run all my WA guns almost exclusively on Green gas or Propane year round in the UK. I've never had a WA slide fail (actually, I suspect in the UK, a SCW or later any (proper) WA slide would be fine on green gas), but I would think twice about running a TM P226 on Green if I lived in Thailand! IMO, this is the most dangerous and misleading thread on Arnies without Ambient Temperature information or, at the very least, a location... GAS doesn't kill any gun, PRESSURE does, which is a factor of gas AND temperature... Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I just noticed the post i was replying to is a year old. Not my intention to necropost. But non the less it is relevant information. If we go with the good ol theory that Green Gas is equivalant to propane, check out this PSI chart : http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html 70F = 122 PSI 100F = 190 PSI Problem? Link to post Share on other sites
fabien Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I just noticed the post i was replying to is a year old. Not my intention to necropost. But non the less it is relevant information. If we go with the good ol theory that Green Gas is equivalant to propane, check out this PSI chart : http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html 70F = 122 PSI 100F = 190 PSI Problem? this is very useful for a new GBB player, any chance that you can publish a full set of Gas versus psi versus temperature table? i was seriously thinking of starting a project on a Mag to remove the tank inside and connect a paintball gas bottle with an accurate low pressure regulator... looking at your comment, it may be the best way to have always the same behaviour. what do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
joss1 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 tercel/bell 1911a1s? Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 this is very useful for a new GBB player, any chance that you can publish a full set of Gas versus psi versus temperature table? i was seriously thinking of starting a project on a Mag to remove the tank inside and connect a paintball gas bottle with an accurate low pressure regulator... looking at your comment, it may be the best way to have always the same behaviour. what do you think? Those are simply general guidelines and not exact numbers. The problem is that to collect definitive data one would have to gather a large sample of "Green Gas" canisters on the market today. I would assume each manufactures gas is a different blend and PSI. And because of this you cannot draw any conclusions from testing just one sample, you can get a hint of the PSI but.. Also, because gas changes pressure with temperature, you would need to test each manufacturers gas under different temperaturs, to get "global" data. For my purposes, I am fine with knowing what PSI a gas holds at 20-25C. But for someone in Texas USA with ambient temps of 30-40C during the summer those numbers dont mean much. I would also suspect that because of this, different countries or regions "Green Gas" manufacturers, might tweak the local gas brands PSI to adjust for the variance in ambient temp, or at least one would hope they do. I am all for conducting such a test, but as with anything it would cost a lot of money. Sourcing bottles of gas from across the globe of different manufacturers is the small part. Finding a test facility that can perform tests from -10C to 40C, I would have no idea who can pull that of. So, in the meantime, the propane PSI table above is the best I got. Also some manufacturers, such as Guarder, list their gases PSI on their website. Guarder has a "regular" Gas, listed at 140PSI, and a heavier gas listed at 220PSI (both at 24C), if you go by the propane psi/temperature guideline you can only image what those values would be in 30-40C temperatures. Link to post Share on other sites
fabien Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 i know it is a big work to collect real data, i was hoping someone already done it somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike_West Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 tercel/bell 1911a1s? Green Gas/propane, defo. Never tried'em with HFC134a, but they're fine on Green. Same goes for Army MEU. Link to post Share on other sites
celbii Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ran propane on my TM hi capa in 100 deg weather. Link to post Share on other sites
Brooxy Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 TM M92 Biohazard Std. Mod - 134a / Abbey Predator/Green (This applies to all TM M92 guns, as the internals are the same) Socom Gear 1911 MEU - Abbey Predator/Green Anyone know a good stockist for the proper red gas in the UK? I reckon the MEU should be able to take it... Link to post Share on other sites
kruck Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I believe ESC may have some left in stock. Link to post Share on other sites
Krut Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 GBB KWA KP45 and variants (Match, Tactical, Standard, and Compact). Link to post Share on other sites
Brooxy Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Got a couple more to add... TM PX4 - Abbey Predator / Green TM 5-7 - Abbey Predator / Green KJW Glock 23 with plastic slide - 134a / Abbey Predator (After running on green a crack appeared in the BBU - could be an age thing as it was secondhand though...) Temperature can only be described as a 'warm british day' - go figure Link to post Share on other sites
Paul202 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 HFC G17 - Green Link to post Share on other sites
GrenadierMasada Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 can i use CO2 in my TM Glock/Magpul FPG? I usually run propane in 70-80 degree weather. I now live in 35-50 weather, which is why im curious if i can use CO2. Was planning on getting the Madbull CO2 charger to charge my mags with. Thanks for any help Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 No, do not put CO2 in anything that's not specifically for CO2. It will blow up most likely. Link to post Share on other sites
GrenadierMasada Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 No, do not put CO2 in anything that's not specifically for CO2. It will blow up most likely. Even if the weather is cold ? I figure if i use propane in hotter months, i can use co2 in colder months? Does cold weather really affect propane or should i be ok using my setup as usual in cold weather Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Even if the weather is cold ? I figure if i use propane in hotter months, i can use co2 in colder months? Does cold weather really affect propane or should i be ok using my setup as usual in cold weather Theoretically, if your gun was tuned for propane in 80 degree weather you can use CO2 in the same gun in a significantly colder environment. In my opinion, that gun that's tuned to run propane in the heat won't shoot well (or possibly not shoot at all) once the temperature drops to a certain point without switching to a propellant that has a significantly lower boiling point. I highly recommend getting a chrono to measure the power output - check if you get similar readings using CO2 in the cold compared to propane in the heat. There are several variables that can effect the power, but it's a good starting point. Link to post Share on other sites
original poster Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Still very happy with my G&G GBBR! Link to post Share on other sites
Mack Bolan Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 It's unfortunate no mention is made of the temperatures at which these gases could/should be used. Cybergun Exteme Blow Back (which has less pressure than Ultrair and Walther ...or green) at +25°c : cracked slides: 2x Tokyo Marui Deagle + 1 Tokyo Marui P226!!!!! The warranty doesn't cover anything else but the use of 144a ( the equivalent of Japanese 134a) or "duster gas"(?) and the parts are a biaaaaach to get hold of. From what I've understood, for any Tokyo Marui one should: -above 20°c use Abbey Predator 144a and below 20° use Cybercheap Extreme Blowback but no stronger, Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Mack Bolan Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9113/graphpressionsbouteille.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
Mack Bolan Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 TM P226 on Ultrair (not mine...) Link to post Share on other sites
U-TAG Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I've found the cybergas ultra air to be kack, Guarder black runs nicely in my high capa as does propane. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyng Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Ive been using cybergun blow back gas the last 5 years in all diff guns but mostly tm hicapas and they havent cracked any slides yet. Guarder power up gas adds 8-10 mps on my hicapa 5.1 so deff stronger gas, but it cracks plastic slides. KSC usp compact cybergun bb gas / guarder power up red gas all ok KSC usp 45 Cybergun bb gas / guarder power up red gas all ok KSC/ASG G17 cybergun bb gas / redgas hammer cant oven valve Link to post Share on other sites
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