Interesting convo I had

[Connery]

But you spoke of the PSG-1. That is in no way an average gun, seeing as only fools and people with a lot of money to spare would buy that.

[Stealthbomber]

I wish people would stop referring to the Systema PTW as some kind of training rifle. It is a PTW in name only.

FWIW, the ICS M4 also has "PTW - For training purposes only" stamped on the bottom of the trigger guard.

You don't see ICS owners claiming that their gun is a training weapon. Cos they don't have to justify the huge cost.

 

Ahem, anyway...

I just wanted to point out that the only 2 clever things the PTW does are:-

1) Stops firing when the mag is empty.

2) Requires you to press the bolt catch before commencing firing again.

 

The charging handle on the PTW is cosmetic.

[Donut]

I wanted to buy the PSG-1 at times, am I a fool?

[sniper_boi]

I wanted to buy the PSG-1 at times, am I a fool?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats what i was thinking.

 

But you spoke of the PSG-1. That is in no way an average gun, seeing as only fools and people with a lot of money to spare would buy that.

 

I spoke of the PSG-1 because you have to cock the rifle with every fresh mag inserted.

 

By average gun i was reffering to those you see on the skirmish field when you go, guns like the P90, G36c, G36K etc etc.

 

I take it you never owned a PSG-1, if not then you cant say that until you do, with the right upgrades, the PSG-1 is a very reliable rifle.

[tank423]

I spoke of the PSG-1 because you have to cock the rifle with every fresh mag inserted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i thought it was a gimmick and didnt have to be done when a new mag is inserted. does that mean everytime* you cock it it loads itself

 

 

 

(*after the first bb in the mag)

[Stealthbomber]

You only have to cock the PSG1 if you fire the last BB in the mag.

Drills!

 

Because it does the pre-cocked firing thing, it's already wound and ready to fire when you insert a new mag.

When you cycle the bolt it pushes the tappet plate back and allows a BB up into the hop-up. Quite a simple, but nifty, little feature really.

 

I had to spend £200 on a Madbull 470 to achieve the same effect with my MSG90.

[sniper_boi]

i thought it was a gimmick and didnt have to be done when a new mag is inserted. does that mean everytime* you cock it it loads itself

(*after the first bb in the mag)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup, you have to cock it when you insert a new mag, after that the gun will reload itself after everyshot (Semi Auto).

 

Here's the parts of the owners Manuel section where it says to cock it.

 

 

The writing reads.

 

Pull the cocking lever all the way to load the first bullet [A blank firing occurs to the 1st bullet unless this operation is done] return the cocking lever to the original position

 

An there ya have it.

[sekiryu]

You know, with the other airsoft guns, you could just pull on the charging handle for the "effect"...

[sniper_boi]

You know, with the other airsoft guns, you could just pull on the charging handle for the "effect"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or the nice "click clack" noise some of them do.

 

TOP M249 is an example.

[Alex6714]

First person shooters can´t teach you anything apart from a slight idea of where the buttons are (depends on the quality of the game), some gun names and maybe a tiny bit like not to run out in the open or you get shot kind of thing.

 

Flight simulators like microsofts flight simulator, 2 of which I have, can teach you, or help you to learn procedures, not the actual hand flying, although you see the effect of "pushing the stick forward". You can learn engine start up, landing procedures etc... which is something. I know it helped me a bit when I went flying recently, but it isn´t only the game that "teaches" me.

 

It depends on the type of game, some can teach you more stuff than others, but being good in a game does not equal being good in real life. It can, but it doesn´t have much to do with a game.

 

 

PS: What is hell is wrong with counter strike? The guns are all reversed and stuff from the videos I have seen? I wouldn´t go within 100 meters of that game. BF2 on the other hand is ok, especially the Project reality mod, that is more of a realistic game.

[Spedz]

And I thought that games were for entertaining? So if you use FPS as a sort of guide I've learnt....

 

The Escudo (Pikes Peak edition) is the best car ever to be made and nothing will be able to beat it ....Ever

Don't trust Insane people. They usually try/will rule the world and must be stopped.

Where ever I go there should be music playing in the background and should change depending on where ever I go.

It only takes a matter of seconds to fully rest.

 

The main point of games are to entertain but seriously as many other people say no matter how games try. Games ≠ real life.

 

 

 

Futher edit; Obviously in some genre's realism is a an indgreadiant for entertainment. Only to a point sooner or later there's going to be a game that so realistic. It's going to be to complicated and generally boring.

[Donut]

hmmm... maybe I should use Japanese visual novels as life guide then?

 

You are THE special one, other people will tell you so

The first girl you meet is the one you should go for

There are (typically) only 2 choices for any given problem

Despite what others say, it is OKAY to have sex with your sister

Occasionally, your sister might want to rape you

Stay away from the seemingly cute and innocent girls, they will end up killing you

It's a trap, but hey, a hole's a hole

Packing tape heals all wounds

You should always help every single girl you find, regardless of race, spieces, or vitality

Mom and dad are always clueless in the next room

Vampires aren't always evil

Pregnancy is a myth

Apologizing solves most problems, from rape to murder

If you are presistent enough, you will get the girl

In the event the above statement fails, as long as you do it fast enough, it doesn't matter if it's consensual; at the very worst, at least you will not die a virgin

...

[Spedz]

suprisingly enough

If you are presistent enough, you will get the girl

 

It works until the restraining order kicks in > : 3

[Xantos]

And I thought that games were for entertaining? So if you use FPS as a sort of guide I've learnt....

 

The Escudo (Pikes Peak edition) is the best car ever to be made and nothing will be able to beat it ....Ever

Don't trust Insane people. They usually try/will rule the world and must be stopped.

Where ever I go there should be music playing in the background and should change depending on where ever I go.

It only takes a matter of seconds to fully rest.

 

The main point of games are to entertain but seriously as many other people say no matter how games try. Games ≠ real life.

Futher edit; Obviously in some genre's realism is a an indgreadiant for entertainment. Only to a point sooner or later there's going to be a game that so realistic. It's going to be to complicated and generally boring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about a full fledged matrix like gadget (let's say in 10 years) and then let's say play Morpheus' fighting game, using only mind (no body movements). Don't you think you'd slowly learn the moves? Or with that in mind, playing an FPS game using RL CQB strategies etc.

 

And why do you call RL boring? Why do you play airsoft then? Why do you breath fresh air in the morning? Why do you like adrenalin? Is all that really boring as you're trying to put it?

 

Playing racing games help you a lot when you first get to drive in a driving school. Why? Because you're used to control a car at high speeds, react at danger situations etc. Basically you're more aware of the surroundings when you drive and are more relaxed than someone who hasn't played any racing games.

 

I'm 100% positive if a research on this was done it would have shown that games do give experiences even though you dismiss them as unreal or virtual. How do you know that RL is not some kind of a VR?

Take for example martial arts learning. How do you learn? Sensei shows you a move, kata, throw, whatever. Mind sees it first and mind is the thing that's important here. Not arms and legs. MIND. The only thing you don't get with virtual learning are flexibility, muscles and stamina which is all ok in some 10-15 years when genetic modifications will play a big role in our lives.

 

Most games ARE simplified RL. You can learn stuff which you find applicable to RL from them. And that's a fact. If you can't see it, then I'm sorry, I can't help you.

[eligibb]

As far as driving goes a game(sim) can help you learn a real track and some stuff about car setup. I mean its not a replacement for real practice but it can aid learning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incorrect.  If using a wheel and a 5/6spd shifter, then POSSIBLY you'd be a little better at Circuit racing, but no way in hell will you be 'AWESOME at street racing' using a controller.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1 of the formula 1 drivers practises on a game "learns" the track then does it for real

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, because Formula 1 racers have paddle shifters.  The argument here is that if you are awesome at Forza, then you MUST be awesome at street racing.  Problem being, Circuit races don't have random traffic or construction as you race.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

actualy top gear tried this out. same car and same track in both computer and in real life. they proved that the computer did help learning parts of the track but not much of it, as the game modified the track and also the car so it would be easier to do the track. they made corner lighter, got rid of all the faults of that car (no understeer, no oversteer, better braking and acceleration) or at least made them less obvious.

 

at least in the game they used (been so long cant remember what game they used or even if they said what game they did) it didnt help much as clarkson couldnt get anywhere near the time in real life as he did on the computer. but i suppose in theory if a game was made which was realistic it would be better for training. Then again i suppose your friend would be right they would be too realistic and would be a bit ginger beer as they would be too hard for normal joe bloggs gamer to play.

 

ohhh and i just love the fact that he thinks a game can teach him how to pickup any gun, load the magazine (he doesnt mention about loading the magazine with actual bullets/shells, i wouldnt be supprised if he thinks magazines are disposable and come ready loaded) into the gun, cock it, fire it acuratly (he can hold it steady?) then release the magazine. although did love his comment on he wouldnt have a clue about safty catches. tbh i doubt i could do all of that with all airsoft guns never mind all real guns.

[Stealthbomber]

Personally, I'm surprised anybody needs to be shown how to change a mag on any gun. I mean, it's not like flying a spaceship.

 

Most weapons have a trigger (which is pretty obvious) and several secondary controls. Randomly prodding at things for a few seconds (while avoiding the trigger) is bound to pay off.

[Chimpy]

Personally, I'm surprised anybody needs to be shown how to change a mag on any gun. I mean, it's not like flying a spaceship.

 

Most weapons have a trigger (which is pretty obvious) and several secondary controls. Randomly prodding at things for a few seconds (while avoiding the trigger) is bound to pay off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you are generally familiar with guns then yeah. Same with using different OSs sure the buttons are different and things are in different places but the general concepts are the same.

 

Give someone who has never held a gun and has no interest in them one and they probably can't without quite a bit of fiddling. Same with teaching someone to use a computer who has no idea of the paradigms.

[Stealthbomber]

I dunno.

 

I think it's more a case of mechanical aptitude rather than specific knowledge.

I mean, if you can identify the mag and realise that something must be holding it in place then you start pulling and pushing at things near to the mag (while keeping your finger off the trigger cos you are probably aware THAT makes it go "BANG!") then it shouldn't take you too long to get the mag out.

 

Computers are a bit different to mechanical things cos, to a newb, it's just a box and all the cleverness is hidden inside and there's no way to see what makes anything work.

 

Personally, I was one of those kids that used to take all my toys to bits and then rebuild them. I dunno if, maybe, that's the sign of people who have mechanical aptitude.

 

My point was really that I'm surprised that anybody would need to imply that they needed teaching something by a video game.

I mean, it's like with these people who spend their spare time creating awesome virtual models for guns or cars or whatever in 3D Studio.

I always feel it's okay but, unless the PC is hooked up to a CAD/CAM machine it's a bit of a dead-end skill.

I'd be more impressed if they got out the tools and started creating something real.

 

It's as if some people are most at ease sitting in front of a PC. Once that happens then the person thinks "What can I do with a PC that'll prove I'm special at something?"

That's when they start playing games or programming or creating 3D models.

What they're doing is, IMO, simply a function of their real desire to sit in front of a PC.

 

Course, that might just be me but I can't help noticing that a large percentage of "keyboard warriors" turn out to be pale fat kids.

[wolfstein5]

It's as if some people are most at ease sitting in front of a PC. Once that happens then the person thinks "What can I do with a PC that'll prove I'm special at something?"

That's when they start playing games or programming or creating 3D models.

What they're doing is, IMO, simply a function of their real desire to sit in front of a PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you're absolutely right.

[Chimpy]

That explains office workers then, innate desire to sit in front of a PC all day.

 

I'm pretty sure my girlfriend would have huge problems changing a mag in most guns and that she would probably try pulling the trigger at least once in the process of finding out. She isn't a 'gun person' and about the most mechanical thing she uses is her car. I guess the functional equivalent with removing a magazine would be placing a CD in the correct drive. Which leads on to the 'cup holder' IT support stories.

 

Being able to create a 3D representation of something is a pretty tough and sought after skill. I know that as half the company I work for is staffed with them. We don't have a CAD/CAM machine in sight. If you are young and doing it, it can be an eminently employable skill in almost all engineering fields and many others including for example product design, marketing, film, TV and video games. That said being able to make a 3D model does nothing for teaching you how to make the real thing.

 

The point is that nothing needs to be taught through video games, just that the technology and experience that comes from trying to engage a user in a video game world can be a great complement or replacement to other methods of teaching. In pretty much the same way as other forms of media such as films (e.g. every bloody training video ever made) and cartoons (e.g. that Vietnam era manual for the M16).