Is Systema PTWs really the best?

[RWJP]

stealthbomber is right... Your bike analogy doesn't work as it's always a better idea to learn on a bigger bike so that smaller bikes are a walk in the park...

 

Just like Cars... Learn in a Manual, and you can drive Manuals and Automatics, learn in an Automatic, and you haven't got a hope with a Manual...

 

On the Systema debate, never owned one (can't afford it) but I have been very impressed with the ones i've used. But then again i've also been very impressed with other guns as well, like a friends TM M4 which when running stock, was coming close to a PTWs range...

 

It all depends on preference... If you want a PTW and can afford it, go for it. If you can't afford it, go for a TM M4 and upgrade the hell out of it... (or leave it stock and buy three or so other guns!)

 

 

[Seraphim989]

I think theyre highly overpriced. I know people that have them. Some of the features seem nice but for that much money you can buy a normally priced AEG and make it perform far better than a PTW. There really isnt any reason why they would outrange most guns as the one poster above me said. Its hopup, barrel, and fps that affect range. If systema makes the best of each of those parts(which they dont) then why not just put those parts in your gun? I believe that in order to have a really good gun you have to build it. Part by part, researching each individual piece. I use some systema parts. But only when they are the best. Not because they say systema on the box

[greg]

Having spent years trying various Airsoft manufactures weapons I finally bought a PTW. Was it worth the money? No and yes.

 

I want it to work out the box and give me a high standard of satisfaction.

 

In short yes buy one.

 

Actually John, you do have a fair point here.

 

One which is often over looked.

 

There is to my mind no other product that gives you the same out of the box performance as a PTW.

 

It's all very well going on about "all you have to do is add a fet to any other aeg", but if that sort of thing just ain't you,,,,,,,,?

 

Now here's the thing. Is the PTW over priced? Well, I'm wondering. It doesn't have any real, direct competitors. So the answer is still yes & no.

 

It's the only one of it's kind, so what ever the price, you have to pay it. & you have nothing to compare it to, so how can you say if it is a fair price?

 

Yeah, you can have a go, by adding up the cost of a really good rep with syst components & a mosfet. But even then (& that ain't cheap) you only have the look & the performance. What about the other features such as the lockback etc. & this is all 'out of the box'. No having to order up parts & putting it together, no taking it to the shop & waiting six weeks for their engineers to get it wrong.

 

Just pay & play. How do you put a price on that?

 

Sure it goes wrong from time to time, but most guns do that, eventually. Sure you should service it, but then you 'should' be servicing all your other aegs.

 

For some one like me, who enjoys tinkering & doesn't give a hoot about features or feel, the PTW is overpriced poo.

 

But, if you are like John, want a decent bit of kit out of the box & are prepared to pay whatever it takes,,,,,you have no choice, only a PTW will do.

 

 

Greg.

 

PS. If they did a G36C,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'd probably have one.

 

Oh gosh, I don't believe I just published that.

[tome]

Maybe i haven't seen enough PTWs but i've never really been that impressed with the performance compared with a well put together high end AEG. As for PTW being more consistent than normal AEG... that's not really true. Most stock TM will do +-5 fps and a mosfeted and upgraded AEG with quality bb will match that if it's put together right.

 

In the end i agree with greg. If you want something that throws bbs more or less as good as a well upgraded AEG straight out of the box then buy a PTW if you can afford it I'll admit that i wanted to buy a PTW just as a rifle to use rather than to tinker with like i do with my AEGs. More realistic handling is another of the PTWs obvious advantages.

 

for all other things..... just buy a normal AEG and learn how to upgrade it decently. Compared to a PTW you'll have the same range and accuracy but you'll be at a massive advantage in terms of potential rate of fire and magazine capacity. Not to mention you'll have a little change left over for a magnificent feast after every skirmish hehe.

[greg]

you'll have a little change left over for a magnificent feast after every skirmish hehe.

Mmmmmmmmmm, feast.

 

 

Greg.

[King of Spades]

All this boils down to the same old thing, you buy what you can afford, or what you can justify. It's like buying Blackhawk or Viper, both do the same thing, yet one is better quality than the other, designer or shop brand, timex or Rolex the list goes on.

 

Are all PTW owners stuck up their own arses? Some are... Equally, are those who haven't had one all haters of them? some are.

 

My point is that I think there great but over priced, but that can be said of a lot of things in this world.

 

 

[RC-1138]

One problem with your comparisons though, a Rolex, while probably overpriced, DOES function better than a normal storebrand watch. It has both additional functions that work great and yet does all the normal watch things better (more accurate time keeping) and longer (something like 15 years I think per battery) and through worse conditions. A Systema however does not hold true to this analogy. While indeed they are a bit overpriced, they do NOT function much better than a normal AEG, and while they offer additional functions those functions don't always work and, moreover, for a skirmisher dont really add any "good" things. Moreover the gun doesn't provide the basic most AEG functions on any higher level that a considerably cheaper, more commonplace upgraded TM could do.

[PlasticMag]

ROLEX do NOT function better than a normal watch. ROLEX (as a former owner) are some of the best-marketed and over-hyped products, right up there with diamonds.

[greg]

One problem with your comparisons though, a Rolex, while probably overpriced, DOES function better than a normal storebrand watch.

Er, no.

 

Rolex do not keep better time than casio.

 

& Rolex are not overpriced. The pricing is based on the cost to maunfacture both the casing & movement. Which in the case of a Rolex, ain't cheap. & the usual uplift associated with a 'premium' product. If you really want a rolex movement & don't care about the case or name, you can get a Tudor for about half the 'Rolex' price.

 

A Casio is cheaper, because manufacturing costs are.

 

They keep the same time, because, since the advent of quartz, all lcd, quartz, battery watches (except the absolute dross) are equal (depending on quartz & battery quallity) when it comes to time keeping. To achive this standard of time keeping mechanically, (via a sprung mech, or a batery powered quartz timer, which then has to drive 'hands' via a gaer train) is very hard, hence the extra expence.

 

 

Greg.

[The General]

Meh, my Cyma MP5 with blowback action has amazing range, blowback action thats a blast to use and I am not worried about gas costs or messing about with a delicate gun.

 

Its fun to use and outranges many other guns on site, very well made, full metal, heavy... the list goes on and on... oh and it was less than £150 all in.

 

Its FUN... Thats why I airsoft... not to brag about brands.

 

Yeah, I have a KWA G36c, best G36c on the market. I just use it.

 

PTW? Could not care less. I am very happy with what I have and am now looking at the Cyma blowback AK's as well as a G&G M14 project.

 

I am enjoying myself, how about the rest of you?

[King of Spades]

I think theyre highly overpriced. I know people that have them. Some of the features seem nice but for that much money you can buy a normally priced AEG and make it perform far better than a PTW. There really isnt any reason why they would outrange most guns as the one poster above me said. Its hopup, barrel, and fps that affect range. If systema makes the best of each of those parts(which they dont) then why not just put those parts in your gun? I believe that in order to have a really good gun you have to build it. Part by part, researching each individual piece. I use some systema parts. But only when they are the best. Not because they say systema on the box

 

We run 350FPS at my site and whenever I play I can hit people before they get range on me. I don't know why and I don't care. The range is fantastic but more importantly the grouping is tight. What systema have done is put a rifle together that works, what most of you talk about is collecting parts and making them work. Nothing wrong with that, but I've often found that if you leave something standard it work longer than those which have been tinkered with. I had one PTW fail me in 18 months (and that was on it's first outing) fixed by the shop no cost to me.

 

Ignore the money for a moment, without a doubt these are the best constructed rifles I've ever seen in the Airsoft world, the engineering far exceeds the other makes, let alone the clever electronics. If nothing else they have raised the bar for TM to make their SOPMOD and Celcius to copy them. On that note I've not seen the Celcius in real life yet but the videos on youtube look like they are a total ripoff of the systema and only cost half the price. So maybe theres to option for all those who don't want to pay Systema prices, buy the cheaper clone.

[King of Spades]

One problem with your comparisons though, a Rolex, while probably overpriced, DOES function better than a normal storebrand watch. It has both additional functions that work great and yet does all the normal watch things better (more accurate time keeping) and longer (something like 15 years I think per battery) and through worse conditions. A Systema however does not hold true to this analogy. While indeed they are a bit overpriced, they do NOT function much better than a normal AEG, and while they offer additional functions those functions don't always work and, moreover, for a skirmisher dont really add any "good" things. Moreover the gun doesn't provide the basic most AEG functions on any higher level that a considerably cheaper, more commonplace upgraded TM could do.

 

Once again people don't check their facts, Rolex, Omega and such watches are wound by the movement of your wrist. If you are a very active person the speed up, inactive run slow. I know this because I own them and have found that my Traser keeps better time! Such things are bought out of desire not function.

 

But lets let all the experts SHOUT!

 

[King of Spades]

Meh, my Cyma MP5 with blowback action has amazing range, blowback action thats a blast to use and I am not worried about gas costs or messing about with a delicate gun.

 

Its fun to use and outranges many other guns on site, very well made, full metal, heavy... the list goes on and on... oh and it was less than £150 all in.

 

Its FUN... Thats why I airsoft... not to brag about brands.

 

Yeah, I have a KWA G36c, best G36c on the market. I just use it.

 

PTW? Could not care less. I am very happy with what I have and am now looking at the Cyma blowback AK's as well as a G&G M14 project.

 

I am enjoying myself, how about the rest of you?

 

And that is the correct attitude, if you like buy and use it. Worry about what you are doing not anyone else. As for bragging about brand it's not about that at all. I buy what I want, sure most of it costs a bit, but I'm happy to pay it, as you are with yours.

[Stuey]

Yup, if you're enjoying airsoft with your kit and you're not harming anyone else's enjoyment, you're doing it right. Whether you have a Systema with every M4 attachment that exists or a KWC spring pistol.

 

I'm enjoying myself immensely with the aforementioned TM Spetsnaz .

 

& I love the fact that you (quite rightly) point out that 90fps makes all the difference.

 

 

Greg.

 

BTW greg not sure what to make of that, you say 'quite rightly' then a roll eyes?

[brokenhalo]

Lastly, your motorbike metaphor is so false it's in danger of imploding into itself and becoming a truth-black-hole.

Almost everybody who rides a bike will assert it's far smarter and safer to learn to ride on a bigger bike.

 

Statistics proove that riders over 400cc have less accidents ... that said you dont get on a vmax or a busi and wind your wrist back without knowing whats gonna happen. Lower cc bikes are for clutch, balance and control ...numpties.. a larger bike negates most of the need for these skills .as the engine compensates ..so as for the analagy....its right...

 

however the analagy to a PTW well no ... I have a few PTWs and they are awsome...but im usually running round with a HEAVILY modded M14 .....forget the price tag for a moment.... straight out of the box nothing touches the PTW......lots of cash needs to be spent to got anywhere near this level.

 

again for concistency out of the box at the same FPS nothing matches it

 

Value for money.....second hand yes......the bare platform can cost and with ris ,cylinder tunes and the like you can spend 2k easily

 

As a first time Rif... yes and no.... if you go straight there anything else you buy is gonna be a let down .. half the fun of softin is finding your way round what you do/dont like to match your style of play ..what works ..what dont ....

 

The hot swap cylinder is a fantastic feature and yes ICS have one too but its not the same .. i spent around 2k in diferent combos and parts trying to get a ICS M4 to preform like a tuned PTW lol........i just gave up and brought a PTW .....should have done it in the first place

 

As for thre 90% PTW owners v 10% softers.... how often do you hear skirmishing im gonna do this mod ?..upgrade that? .. try this?......not off the systema players you dont.

 

If your an auto fiend or a spray player forget it you wont like the capacity... on the other hand if you like Mil sim and ammo load outs this could be for you

 

If a PTW is in your price range do it .. If its not dont break the bank trying to get one ... They arnt just for the eletist w****rs (if the cap fits lol)..

 

As i stated I have had 3 and now have 2 and would not part with them but i do like my 14, its more me and i can JUST range a PTW for accuracy but not without expensive mods and a higher FPS (locked out to single shot cos of fps).

 

The CTW ive not had one in my hands yet but i would imagine there is a lot of hype about its proformance at the moment and would take it all with a pinch of salt.... It is a clone , a huge price tag drop (still way more than most) and pre-ris ed ...somethings gotta give....

 

i think its gonna be for the boy racers... bog standard under the body kit cos the insurance is to high ... if you can afford the real thing you would .

[greg]

BTW greg not sure what to make of that, you say 'quite rightly' then a roll eyes?

In retrospect, I think it should have been a smilee, if that helps.

 

 

Greg.

[Stuey]

Haha yeah it does, as much as people say 'ooh FPS doesn't matter just get closer' more power does = more range!

 

There is a surprising amount of difference between a stock TM (espcially an older one) and 350 fps...

 

[PlasticMag]

I just want to chime in here and say that at our last skirmish, someone showed up with a DOA Systema PTW. It wasn't a kit, it was a full rifle. That's inexcusable for the amount of cash he plopped down.

[NeoVeNoM]

Haha yeah it does, as much as people say 'ooh FPS doesn't matter just get closer' more power does = more range!

 

No offense but that is SO noobish.

 

Explain to me then why my TM g36c (stock) had (yes had, it's even better now) better groupings and range than a mates 360fps CA G36K, which wasn't stock?

 

I saw 450+ FPS range test,with M4's that were so pitiful.They weren't even able to continuously hit a target at 30meters.

 

What's the use of MOAR power if you can't use it?

Your inner barrel, hop up rubber, hop up unit, hop up bucking and the BB's you use are just as important if not even more.

[Stuey]

Well yes, but given that TM hop-ups are great and so are Systema, more power will give you more range.

 

In answer to your question, because CA G36 internals are cr@p and TM ones are not.

[Seraphim989]

You can make those comparisons but they dont matter since theyre different guns. Everything being the same, if you upgrade a gun from 280 fps to 350 fps it will shoot further. Just because TM hopups are filled with magic doesnt mean more fps wont make them shoot further. Thats why DMRs and sniper rifles have higher fps limits

[Stealthbomber]

No offense but that is SO noobish.

 

Explain to me then why my TM g36c (stock) had (yes had, it's even better now) better groupings and range than a mates 360fps CA G36K, which wasn't stock?

 

I saw 450+ FPS range test,with M4's that were so pitiful.They weren't even able to continuously hit a target at 30meters.

 

What's the use of MOAR power if you can't use it?

Your inner barrel, hop up rubber, hop up unit, hop up bucking and the BB's you use are just as important if not even more.

Way to completely miss the point.

 

Take two identical guns, one with a 260fps spring and one with a 350fps spring.

Which one's gonna have more usable range?

[NeoVeNoM]

Way to completely miss the point.

 

Take two identical guns, one with a 260fps spring and one with a 350fps spring.

Which one's gonna have more usable range?

 

it's not all that simple, again, if you can't use the power, why have it, even if both guns start out as the same.

What I was stressing earlier, is that more power is no general solution to more range.

 

Sure your 350fps will make you gun shoot further, but not that much regarding the power gap between the two.

 

Look, if you put a much more powerful engine in a car, do you leave the rest of the car as it is?

You could, but not if you want to take full advantage of the power upgrade.

 

But enough about that, this is about Systema PTWs being the best, yes or no. Lets just say, they are in a league of their own.

[greg]

Haha yeah it does, as much as people say 'ooh FPS doesn't matter just get closer' more power does = more range!

 

There is a surprising amount of difference between a stock TM (espcially an older one) and 350 fps...

Exactly.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

No offense but that is SO noobish.

 

Explain to me then why my TM g36c (stock) had (yes had, it's even better now) better groupings and range than a mates 360fps CA G36K, which wasn't stock?

 

I saw 450+ FPS range test,with M4's that were so pitiful.They weren't even able to continuously hit a target at 30meters.

 

What's the use of MOAR power if you can't use it?

Your inner barrel, hop up rubber, hop up unit, hop up bucking and the BB's you use are just as important if not even more.

I think I should clarify my take on this.

 

All things being equal, more power does mean more range. You seem incapable of understanding this principle. (Others having tried to point it out already).

 

So, if you have a good component group & the gun is balanced correctly, for peak performance, & one equally equipped & appropriately balanced with another 90fps, I would expect to get more range out of the +90fps gun. Wouldn't you?

 

I would never expect to be able to get the the same range with 260fps as I can with 350. Obviously you can do everything possible to get the best out of the 260fps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& then do exactly the same with 350. The 350, will retain the same accuracy at a longer range.

 

With regards your examples. Without looking at them properly, I have no idea. But, we all know that you need to sort out all areas of the gun, to get the best out of it,,,,,,,,,,,not just increase the the power.

 

Even a nooooooob knows that.

 

 

Greg.

 

PS, Who would have thought a ptw thread would go down this rout?