The Badger Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 oh god, we're back to the tinfoil hats again? in that case... Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Shockingly I have to admit I agree with you here Stealthy. People always have that. Faith, utter blind faith. It makes people devout. Makes 'em a little crazy. It can even make them wrong. But it always ends with the same. They stand by what they believe. Always. If you have absolute blind faith in anything you are doing it wrong. Skepticism FTW. Ki Adimonkey - Do you have any actual you know evidence for the rubbish you are spouting? What evidence do you base the existence of the NWO or Illuminati on? Why would a one world government and one currency help in this economic crisis? I'm thinking you're not doing Economics for your GCSEs! Stealth pretty much nailed the psychological reasons people believe in conspiracy theories although I'd add that it's often to gain a feeling of control. The world is a pretty chaotic place that can be very hard to understand. If you can fit everything into a neat, simple to understand framework then you can feel apart from the chaos as it's obviously being controlled. It's a seductive but ultimately dead end for thinking. Events like 9/11 seem fantastical, how did a man in Kandahar organise a group for very little money that caused such a dramatic and costly terrorist attack? So they ignore the mountains of evidence that says it was this man and his group as that's too scary and out of their control. Then they set their sights on something a little bit more familiar that they might already have misgivings about in this case that it was an 'inside job' or pick a perennial favourite like blaming Jews. With a firm belief in 'what really happened now' they then throw caution and their ability to control their cognitive biases to the wind, cherry pick bits of information that semi-support their idea and stick their fingers in their ears when it gets debunked. The story gets told and retold, it picks up momentum and then people start believing it because so many people are saying it so 'it must be true' or 'there's no smoke without fire'. Unquestioning belief in anything is retarded especially if there is a lack of evidence to support it. It is the essence of being close-minded. Quite a lot of the time people will tell you to be "open-minded" about conspiracy theories most of the time this is just an ad hominem attack presented when you question someones conspiracy beliefs. They are essentially saying believe what I say or I am going to brand you a closed-mind. However being open-minded does not mean you leave your cognitive faculties at the door. Nor that you should believe anything that someone tells you. It merely means that should you be presented with evidence that contradict your views you will change them and that you will judge ideas on their merit. It means if an idea can be shown to be correct that knowledge will be taken on board and equally if the idea does not stand up to scrutiny it will be rejected. Uncritically accepting something that is not credible is not being open-minded! I'm open-minded and expect that Ki Adimonkey won't provide anything like credible evidence to support his beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 As Indiana Jones famously said "I like icke", and am blind faithed towards that person but even I can not agree with that statement, think of the children Indy. And also the hole iluminati thing, jesus, people read a book by Dan Brown and bang everyone becomes a historian. Its just an interesting story, don't get scared that some guy who whips himself is going to come after you........ Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The real Illuminati were a group who were around at the time of the enlightenment in Bavaria. They were anti-religion and essentially all about spreading rational thinking. Due to the hostile climate to those ideas at the time it was a secret organisation but only lasted for fifteen years. Link to post Share on other sites
demon.b Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 They are anti-religion and essentially all about spreading rational thinking. Did you just blow your cover? Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 QUOTE (demon.b @ Jun 9 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you just blow your cover? The black helicopters have Ki Adimonkey and now you under surveillance! MUHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH! Link to post Share on other sites
AirsoftAddict Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 We all know Chimpy is paid by the Illuminati and the government to visit forums like this with his evidence against anything thats anti government or anti illuminati. It makes sence if you consider the amount of time Chimpy spends on the forum argueing against these theories whilst providing solid "facts" against the thoeries. Believe what you want but I would rather err on the side of caustion and believe the thoeries, There will alaways be people who are better versed in argument to persuade people that they are wrong or that their thoeries dont hold weight. But alas thats why the Illuminati employ people like Chimpy In that same light the Illuminati could have fakers like Ki Dimonkey to draw out people who are anti Illuminati so they can be spied on. You know how the government gets people to pretend to be terrorist and draw out real terrorists. So for all we know even though Chimpy and Ki Monkey are having opposing viewpoints they could both be working for the same group. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Believe what you want but I would rather err on the side of caustion and believe the thoeries But you aren't erring on the side of caution it's the very opposite you aren't being cautious at all about what you accept. If you did that for every conspiracy theory going you'd have to believe competing and contradictory theories at the same time. What we need to be able to do is judge the credibility of a theory based on the evidence that supports it and that's examining the totality of the evidence not just the 'facts' cherry picked by the theorist. I'm advocating a rational and skeptical approach to judging the credibility of things. The problem with saying things like "So for all we know even though Chimpy and Ki Monkey are having opposing viewpoints they could both be working for the same group." Is that there is no evidence to support this. We could be working for no groups, for competing groups, for different groups with similar goals or any myriad of different things. P.S. Can you hear the helicopters yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 The problem with saying things like "So for all we know even though Chimpy and Ki Monkey are having opposing viewpoints they could both be working for the same group." Is that there is no evidence to support this. I once played a game featuring the Illuminati (in conthpiwathy format) in which both the two major world powers struggling for control and two competing coffee franchises turned out to be controlled by the same group. Does that count? ® Link to post Share on other sites
AirsoftAddict Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 It does count indeed, Even games seemed to be based on some form of reality Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 It does count indeed, Even games seemed to be based on some form of reality Tetris? Or any other abstract games like for example Rez? There's a book called The Illuminates Trilogy which I highly recommend people read as it's mind bendingly confusing. Alas a lot of the stuff made up in the book has now made it's way into the conspiracy theory! So no it doesn't count. Having a story line based on the conspiracy theory does not count as evidence of anything more than the theories existence. Which no one doubts as we are all debating the credibility of the theory! Plus Jagd was joking. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Where is the real Floor 13? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_13_(game) for those who don't remember it David Icke is and always has been a nutcase. The fact he stirs up debate however makes him a useful tool for at least opening up discussion. Some conspiracy theories are true, some are not, and the truth is written in any case by those who want to control history to their own ends. This is not one single global conspiracy movement, but many different groups acting in competition and alliance with each other. There is no set goal or target to be achieved here, although mankind is not yet capable of coping with the fact that some things do not have a conclusion. The first thing I would say to anyone who is interested in seeing the real story is to reject all popular published media. If there is an illuminati of any kind, it is the national media of every country on earth. Just because we have the illusion of choice in our daily newspapers in the UK, it doesnt mean that it is any less manipulated than Pravda. I finish this rant on the media by stating my belief that the Daily Sport is published by, and for, borderline pedophiles. Think about that next time you pick it up in the break room. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Some conspiracy theories are true, some are not, and the truth is written in any case by those who want to control history to their own ends. This is not one single global conspiracy movement, but many different groups acting in competition and alliance with each other. There is no set goal or target to be achieved here, although mankind is not yet capable of coping with the fact that some things do not have a conclusion. Yup, tis chaos out there. Point is that the words conspiracy and theory together have connotations of green ink mentalism. There are plenty of conspiracies that are unearthed everyday most of which are mundane criminal enterprises. The general issue is the credibility of the conspiracy theories themselves and the fantastical claims made by people which lack supporting evidence. The first thing I would say to anyone who is interested in seeing the real story is to reject all popular published media. If there is an illuminati of any kind, it is the national media of every country on earth. Just because we have the illusion of choice in our daily newspapers in the UK, it doesnt mean that it is any less manipulated than Pravda. Then you said this which made me laugh out loud. It's the cry of the person that believes everything they read uncritically in the 'alternative media' but rejects everying reported in the mainstream press as sinister manipulation. Once you realise that everything that is written by people tends to be tinged with our own views on a subject and that various newspapers do follow a broad political line (e.g. The Guardian is centre-left, The Times centre-right) you can start working on disassociating the fact from the opinion. In my view the 'alternative press' suffers from a lack of editorial control and most articles tend to be extended op-eds rather than decent reporting. Some of the mainstream press suffer from that problem as well for example The Independent has become really ###### and of course everyone claims to hate the Daily Mail. Most people will tend to read the newspaper that best fits their own view of the world and rubbish the others. If you want to be informed you need to read a few different broadsheets and possibly dip into the media elsewhere in the world. Then you need to look for more information. I finish this rant on the media by stating my belief that the Daily Sport is published by, and for, borderline pedophiles. Think about that next time you pick it up in the break room. The fetishising of pubescent young girls is not that unusual in our society at all. Everyone from Britney Spears to low-class tabloids is in on the act including the chick that goes and gets a full-wax. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have to go do some shopping to may reply more later but... I dont read 'alternative' media either. Most of that is foaming-at-the-mouth opinionated trash as well. I read books, and then read up more on the parts that interest me to get a variety of different angles. Often, even that is not enough to help me form a proof-positive opinion of the issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have to go do some shopping to may reply more later but... I dont read 'alternative' media either. Most of that is foaming-at-the-mouth opinionated trash as well. I read books, and then read up more on the parts that interest me to get a variety of different angles. Often, even that is not enough to help me form a proof-positive opinion of the issue. Yeah I wasn't really claiming that you did just that I recognise the argument. Books can present similar issues as well since a lot of them can be extended polemics. Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Ultimately would it matter a flying *fruitcage* if there were lizard people controlling a globeful of giant conspiracies? If it makes them happy wheres the harm in it, who else would be daft enough to take on the job Lot more useful things to dedicate our finite time to like being there for freinds n family, earning a living and just generally making the most of our lot. Folks have laughed, joked, shagged and made freindships under some of the most oppressive regimes and most hellish conditions that ever existed. People individually are either equipped with an abiliity to do that or they arent. If someones a malcontented greetin faced git with an overactive imagination, a fetish for feeling hard done by and an urge to vent it on youtube then its hardly going to make much difference wether the chains of hidden reptilian overlords are collectively cast off, the iluminati are finally 'exposed' or the 'One Truth' is finally identified and agreed upon by all. They'd still be whinging n whining and claiming the rest of us 'dont know the half of it' Life's too short. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yeah where's the harm in these conspiracy theories and poor thinking. It's not like the conspiracy theory about the MMR jab being linked to autism did any harm... oh wait it actually did. Or how about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3488806.stm Or the good old fashion con-man that preys on peoples inability to reason? http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230402.htm Just googling these things now lead me here: http://whatstheharm.net/ Good site. Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 nopes I meant wheres the harm in us having unseen reptilian overlords Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 nopes I meant wheres the harm in us having unseen reptilian overlords Because it promotes magical thinking over critical thinking. Which is the cause of the things linked above and the other examples on that website. Link to post Share on other sites
Moriquende Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 That's an interesting website. Too bad there's no category for Al Gore/Global warming. Edit: Schpelling. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Probably because ya know that thar man-made climate change thing isn't a conspiracy theory. Link to post Share on other sites
Delfi Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Probably because ya know that thar man-made climate change thing isn't a conspiracy theory. Ah yes, but don't lizards like warm weather? Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 nopes I meant wheres the harm in us having unseen reptilian overlords Don't blame me. I voted for Kang. Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Because it promotes magical thinking over critical thinking. Which is the cause of the things linked above and the other examples on that website. I didn't write where the harm in us thinking we have reptilian overlords I wrote wheres the harm in us having reptilian overlords ie what material difference would it make to anyones lives if we woke up tomorrow to find we had had them for the last 5000 years, or that theres an 'Illuminati' or a worldwide meedja conspirisahhhh or a New world order that controls all our govts etc. etc. ad infiniutm? Other than the mindless tedium of some smugfaced infoil hat wearer running around shouting "I told you so, I told you so" and that annoying *beep* in the office claiming "well I knew all along, it was soooo obvious" Zip nada, those of us who have a life wou'ld still get out of bed, shower n shave, breakfast, commute, work, go out and enjoy ourselves with freinds, come home and go to bed. And there'd still be some *albartroth* on the internet sat in his underpants wasting his life away posting videos on youtube claiming the new world order doesnt really exist and how its all an international media conspiracy by our national govts to pin the blame on those poor lizard people. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I didn't write where the harm in us thinking we have reptilian overlords I wrote wheres the harm in us having reptilian overlords Ahhh, my bad! Serves me right for skim reading. Link to post Share on other sites
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