Strange looking MP5 @ Ukrainian rally

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

I've been reading reports that Russia have toned down their kit for Eastern Ukraine - After it was far too obvious in Crimea. Obviously that could just be a rumour but it wouldn't surprise me after Putin was forced to admit Russians were operating in Crimea before.

[hitmanNo2]

True, anyone can buy a Gorka.  I just find it hard to believe all these guys with AKs are just Pro Russian rebels.  I mean, if we wanted to do something similar, we would see the usual hunting shotguns, rifles, some ARs either straight pull or .22.  Could get illegal pistols, occasional AK if you were loaded, grenades e.t.c. But those guys that ambushed the APC with an RPG.  Thats not something you can easily scrounge up.  Got be be Russian involvement.

[Skarclaw]

True, anyone can buy a Gorka.  I just find it hard to believe all these guys with AKs are just Pro Russian rebels.  I mean, if we wanted to do something similar, we would see the usual hunting shotguns, rifles, some ARs either straight pull or .22.  Could get illegal pistols, occasional AK if you were loaded, grenades e.t.c. But those guys that ambushed the APC with an RPG.  Thats not something you can easily scrounge up.  Got be be Russian involvement.

 

Yea, but then a lot of stuff has been raided from police stations (the 74su) or brought along with when soldiers defected.  I think you are right to say that heavy weaponry a more obvious indicator. Working on a similar metaphor if the South was to rise again you'd see a bunch of hicks running around with hunting rifles but a fair few types with crye gear and LMT AR variants would pop up I reckon.

[kot7]

Is that a GSG MP5 .22LR w/ICS stock? DDPM UBACS?

 

This is hanting semiauto carbine 

 

http://www.guns.ua/samozaryadnyie-vintovki/Karabin_ohotnichij_GSG_5_Fix_kal_22LR.html

 

 in ukrainian shop price is about 700-800USD

Surely it's not used neiter in army nor in police/SBU units.

 

Relatively strange is only a folding stock, but in Ukraine it is quite legal.

[hwagan]

It's an ICS stock, no doubt about that;

 

http://www.evike.com/images/large/Stock_ICS_MP_88_lg.jpg

[ollie_ty]

Or, it's the GSG stock.

 

http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/product_detail.php?Category=30&Page_Number=1&Index_Seq=802

[hwagan]

Or, it's the GSG stock.

 

http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/product_detail.php?Category=30&Page_Number=1&Index_Seq=802

 

 

To somebody who didn't know ICS copied the GSG stock or that the GSG stock existed at all, there's no doubt it's an ICS stock.

[renegadecow]

@Skarclaw

The guy in the Gorka and AR was from back in Crimea I believe and really was part of Russian SF. It was when they were disarming military checkpoints and bases before the annexation.

[spetsnazdave87]

There's a definite Russian SF presence in Ukraine. GL94s, visibly Identifiable Russian SF personnel, surface to air missiles and AT being used effectively... 

[Habakure]

And beards, don't forget the beards.

[Skarclaw]

@Skarclaw

The guy in the Gorka and AR was from back in Crimea I believe and really was part of Russian SF. It was when they were disarming military checkpoints and bases before the annexation.

 

On what basis do you say that? I know thats what the caption to the photo says but simply put I think it is wrong. The propaganda machine is in overdrive on both sides so its hard to really get an accurate idea of what's going on.

 

I have no doubt that there are Russian SF members there. But so far this is the only one we've seen with one of these guns. I suppose Putin could have given it to him to throw observers off the scent, and I suppose he could of raided it somewhere. However, I think that the most simple explanation is that he is a Ukrainian who bought the gun himself. To the casual observer he looks like is SF however Ukraine is richer then Syria/Libya. He is not wearing any of more modern Russian kit like their flecktarn variant, he doesn't have body armour. He has a $20 molle vest, arpat pouches and a common as muck gorka. Happy to be convinced otherwise  - I don't care that much its jus a bit of fun

[spetsnazdave87]

 

This guy is the same guy as in the photo you referenced, but at a different time in a different part of Ukraine.

 

 

There's a few pictures of these guys.

The idea that Russians never use ARs isn't strictly accurate. There are Alfa group members and I'm sure other Russians that use private purchase versions.

[renegadecow]

It was a time when the "polite men" were being unloaded by thevtruckload so I assume as much that theyre Russians too. He's not the only one with a Gorka either and most of the Ukrainian rebels are using that fancy new SPOSN uniform. Regarding body armor, he could be wearing it under the Gorka but I recall seeing Russian forces doing ship boarding at the harbor without any over their uniforms either. Can't explain about the gun but my inclination is more to do with the date and location as to why I think those guys are Russian too.

[Skarclaw]

Dave not sure on the relevance of the top and bottom photos (just imo the top one does not look like SF, the bottom one does) but I'm not sure the guy in the middle is the same guy - obviously his face is covered but otherwise its just the gorka and the gun (which is set up differently, although I suppose he could of added the suppressor and moved the scope accordingly). Although having said that if it is a different guy then that goes against what I've been saying haha. mebbe he is defected ukrainian army?

[spetsnazdave87]

The relevance is that the guys in the pictures are Russian SF being overt in the Crimea- at the time when they didn't give a f*ck about being identified. Lots of Gorkas, dressed extremely similarly to the guy in the middle.





The scope's been moved 2 or 3 rails forward and the suppressor isn't on, but not sure how many ARs with OD magpul furniture and AFGs are knocking about in that part of the world. I would expect a defected Ukrainian to be using an AK, not a highend bit of private purchase weaponry.

This is a russian SF operator with an AR btw

 

 

 
 

[hitmanNo2]

There's pics from a Russian training exercise I think it was with loads of guys with ARs and Multicam or whatever the Russian clone is of MC.  They get hilarious reactions from the Russian gear purists lol.

[Skarclaw]

Dave,

 

I don't think the people in the top picture are Russian SF at all. I appreciate that Russian SF do use Armalites but AFIAK not a Ukrainian civvie rifle. I'm still not convinced that he is Russian SF anyway in the spirit of things, here's an airsoft in the Doenstk region. Posted on facebook, I've obscured the face and patch just cause. Mods can call it as they see it

 

[kot7]

It is not good idea to use airsoft parts with real firearm because of frigle "toy grade" materials and diferent jointing dimmentions   (for example AEG receivers are designed to fit gearboxes of standard type)

 

Concerning the AR type weapons in russian LE/FSB

as i know, AR-clones were only seen on competitions/demonstrations and newer in combat(it is impossible). Civilian weapons are only semi auto, and can be damaged if chambered with military grade cartrige.

(on the photo above is ukrainian hanting rifle)

 

i'm waching very closely news from Ukraine, and the most "russian-like" weapon seen in hands of SE irregulars was late soviet version of RPK-74 with "plam" plastic parts and mags, wich looks very much alike with russian RPK-74M, which production started in 90-s. Most of ukrainian ones have wooden hand guards/stocks and "orange" bakelit mags. 

 

[Skarclaw]

Without getting too political how do you feel the media coverage of events is kot7? 

I distrust RT however I feel that we in the West are getting a picture painted which is heavily biased to the Kiev administration. There was virtually nothing in the news about the Trade Union Building fire.

[kot7]

 

Without getting too political how do you feel the media coverage of events is kot7? 

I distrust RT however I feel that we in the West are getting a picture painted which is heavily biased to the Kiev administration. There was virtually nothing in the news about the Trade Union Building fire.

 

 

Very sad... my elder brother lives in US, and he is pretty shocked by media-wave we have never seen before.

i'm trying to follow different media sources and keeping contact with friends and distant relatives in central Ukraine.

[in english there are good news/picture topics on MP.net]

By this moment russian news are closer to present situation... 

[Seraphim989]

Whatever the US media is saying, more professional analysis over here in the US is suggesting most forces in Ukraine aren't Russian.  It's not just about equipment(remember that the black market for arms in Eastern Europe is huge), but tactics as well.  A comparison of "indigenous security forces" in Crimea and the rebel groups in Eastern Ukraine, shows a huge difference.  The forces in Crimea were highly trained, whilst the groups in Ukraine now are...less so, to say the least.

[paranoiddroid]

From what friends in the Ukraine said you could buy ar15 type weapons legally the gun laws in the Ukraine meant there were some high end guns out there so the presence of an ar doesn't mean it's the Russians. I mean right at the start of the whole thing kicking off there were shots of a pro West Ukrainian political bod with a supressed ar15 in his car and questions about who started shooting

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

Malaysian Airliner shot down over Ukraine. Was flying at FL300 - So nothing a MANPAD could reach. 

 

Militia leader (GRU Operative) claimed they shot down an AN-26 at exactly the same area of Ukraine that the airliner was shot down.

 

Unconfirmed reports of a BUK being used.

 

Not Malaysia Airline's year, is it?

[Habakure]

*fruitcage* hell. Poor *barstools*.

[Azubi]

Apparently Putin has blamed Ukraine for the deaths. Not by saying they shot it down, but that they are responsible for the deaths because they are trying to drive the rebels out of Ukraine.