Should the English Police be armed?

[optant]

ferg981, you're going in with exactly the right attitude and I wish you every success in your career.

 

When you carry a firearm you accept a massive amount of responsibility. I carried one for years and it is neither glamourous nor macho. It is the last - not first - line of defence. The moment that you draw your weapon and issue the appropriate warning, which would be civilian in the case of the police, you have issued an ultimatum and narrowed your options to only two possible outcomes: either the target responds to your warning and the threat subsides or your shoot. If you do shoot, even if you believe that you are at that moment 100% justified, you are not only leaving yourself open to incredible future scrutiny and possible prosecution but also you may be taking another's life.

 

From the civ pol with whom we came into contact, the vast majority of officers did not want to have that responsibility and accountability placed upon them. In the main, the actual police officers we have in this country are very professional and effective at their roles and have accumulated experience of the non-lethal methods of policing, the greatest of which is discussion & diplomacy. It is precisely because they do not have the automatic default of drawing a sidearm that they are so good at communication and using their skill in achieving an outcome by the least violent means.

 

Certain threats dictate the presence of armed police, whether that be constant in units such as SO14 or at near immediate response, in units such as SO19. However the routing arming of the police would require all officers to be trained, equipped and monitored to the same level.

 

The knee-jerk reaction to any tragic event such as this is "arm the police" but then knee-jerk reactions are inevitably wrong, as evidenced by the firearms ban following Dunblane. Yet firearms related crime has continued to rise.

 

Perhaps one has to consider increasing the number of armed response vehicles and the access to and response times of armed backup which is available to police forces outside of London and the other main cities.

 

 

As regards other comments about body armour, ant-stab vests with perhaps NIJII ballistic protection are not going to be effective against rounds outside of their tolerance. One cannot expect a police officer to be effective in the delivery of their duties if they are wearing the highest level of ballistic protection, thereby restricting their movement and mobility. Body armour does not protect the head or other exposed parts of the body.

[Phoenix]

This HAS been done before, you are correct cpaxton. And as I stated before ALL officers should be armed.

 

But then you will ask, surely some of these officers arn't qualified to handle firearms. Well, thats why they have shooting courses and psychology tests.

[ferg981]

Maybe they need to find and hire only people who feel they can handle the responsibilty, then. All I'm saying is all the police officers in the U.S. seem to be able to handle it.

 

I'm not saying "we do it this way, you should too", but if they can do it, surely you'd be able to pull it off. Same thing for vest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I dont like your insinuation I cant handle the responsibility. I know i'd only use it when I felt the situation justified it, but unfortunately people who arent there at the time like to judge, well after the event. I'd take a gun out with me if I could count on the support of the law and courts if I ever had to use it. I dont want to be suspended from duty for god knows how long everytime I used it, and to be treated like a criminal myself, which, unfortunately is the way it works in this country

 

Thankyou for your comments Optant

 

~ferg~

[Phoenix]

I have resurrected this post!

[Tom2510]

My argument is simply why shouldnt they be armed!

As long as they are well trained <and not gun happy> nothing bad will result.

[doc_newstead]

The police don't want to be armed, the Goverment don't want the police to be armed, so I'm not sure who exactly we're trying to convince. We have ARU's and all the rest of it, and apparently officer deaths have actually come down since the 80's, so what's the fuss?

 

It's good to know that the classic British kneejerk reaction hasn't taken over completely yet.

[Lance Jackass]

I think that they shuld have the right to choose. Personally i would if was a serving policeman. Not because i think that killing an assailant is right or an acceptable form of policing, but its an extremely good deterrent. You don't question the authority of the guy holding the gun.

[Messiah]

Yeah but they'd have to be responsible. They cant just whip out thier Glock just because some punk steals some old ladys handbag. If they were to pull a knife or other weapon on the old lady then it'd probably be a different story.

 

Im for armed policemen. Regular police cant do squat should some criminals start running around with sawn off shotguns.

[rifleman]

The problem is, once every police officer is armed, you'll probably see a massive increase in the numbers of 'suicide by cop' where someone commits a serious crime in order to push the police into a situation where the police have no alternative but to kill them. Taking a life is not something you want on your conscience, you do it to protect yourself, your friends or a member of the public but it doesn't make it any easier to deal with. A friend of mine, while serving with the Army, ended up killing a 14 year old boy armed with an AK who fired on members of his unit and he still has nightmares about it.

[STARGATESG1NUT]

Heres something. Say you were a cop. You are patrolling a bad part of town. Some guy who doesn't like cops because he committed a crime pulls out a gun. Would you be able to wait for an armed response team to come out and deal with him? No. And anyway guns don't kill people, people kill people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sledge]

Hmm, arm the police? Don't know, not really bothered. The British public should be allowed to bear arms, though.

 

[Agent47]

UK Cops should learn every frikkin martial art there is to offer -

 

now that would be interesting to see criminals deal with that...

[doc_newstead]

English police should be armed, but Irish, Scottish & Welsh police should be given hilarious rubber mallets instead. I'd laugh.

[HaVoC]

Owned utterly.

 

As for 'should British police be armed?', I say a resounding "YES!".

[Xaccers]

Heres something. Say you were a cop. You are patrolling a bad part of town. Some guy who doesn't like cops because he committed a crime pulls out a gun...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

... takes the copper by suprise and shoots him in the back, killing him instantly.

 

How would arming the police protect the copper in that case?

Sure, you don't send unarmed police into a situation where they're going to get shot at (like an armed hostage situation), that would be stupid, but just having a gun doesn't protect you.

Now wearing a kevlar vest, that's better protection than a gun.

[Intimidator]

TASER!

[doc_newstead]

Heres something. Say you were a cop. You are patrolling a bad part of town. Some guy who doesn't like cops because he committed a crime pulls out a gun. Would you be able to wait for an armed response team to come out and deal with him? No. And anyway guns don't kill people, people kill people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't you *fruitcage* dare. You don't live here, you don't know how we think. We speak the same language, that's about it. The UK abolished the death penalty because public opinion showed it to be unpopular. We don't like going to war for the same reason. We live in a country where guns are slightly more scary to the general public than old men's willies. The police won't be armed in this country any time soon, because there's no point in crushing a walnut with a mallet. So don't preach on matters of UK opinion, when your image of us is still bad teeth, bowler hats and Rolls Royces.

[Shad Grimgravy]

every cop I've seen around the US has a gun. even the cop at my school has a glock 17 at his side (along with a taser). It doesn't bother me a bit.

 

And God bless the Second Amendment

[STARGATESG1NUT]

So don't preach on matters of UK opinion, when your image of us is still bad teeth, bowler hats and Rolls Royces.

Hey just because you lost the Revolutionary War doesn't mean that you can get nasty.

[STARGATESG1NUT]

OK, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I don't have anything against you Brits(Except maybe tea. I don't like tea. But, I don't like coffee either, so eh.) I was just giving my opinion. I don't know what you think like. Although, I don't know what I'm thinking like half the time so, oh well. But, while we're at it, lets talk about the war in Iraq and abortion!!

 

(JK)

 

Sorry for any offense taken doc. Or any other person who took offense to any of my previous posts.

[ColDaz]

I suggest dropping it now and never mentioning it again.

 

And just to say, isn't tea from China?

 

Those who said it has been repeated: Sorry, I didn't know it had been done before.

 

Sledge: Do you actually believe the public should be allowed ot be armed or were you joking?

 

Personally, I'd agree with that, at least to some extent.

[Ad_Enuff]

All UK Police Officers on the beat should have several things:-

 

1. Batton & cuffs

 

2. Bullet Proof vest at all times which replace the knife proof vests

 

3. A Taser - a non lethal weapon for everyday use.

 

4. A small firearm.

 

Basically, the equipment used by USA cops.

[ColDaz]

Any justification for this?

 

I'm not trying to say you are wrong, just want to know why you think this.

[Ad_Enuff]

Any justification for this?

 

I'm not trying to say you are wrong, just want to know why you think this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Quite simply the UK isn’t the same as it was 10 - 15 years ago. We have seen an increase in gun crime and our Police Officers are left with only a baton and cuffs in which to defend themselves which can only be used at close quarters.

 

Having a non lethal alternative to apprehend violent criminals (not counting firearm related incidents) will allow our officers to stop, cuff and arrest this type of criminal.

 

Firearms should only be used in cases where gun related incidents occur.

 

Police officers should be able to defend themselves and the general public.

 

At the moment the average officer is very vulnerable.

 

I live in London, and when I see officers with MP5’s, I feel more safe in London’s new wave of terrorist attacks. I am not put off by this at all.

 

It provides a greater sense of security for all who live there and hopefully provide a deterrent to any serious crime offenders be it terrorism, armed robbery, yardie black on black shootings etc or some knob with a airgun causing the VCR bill to go through.

[Un_FriendlyFire]

I used to be a very strong advocate of arming police in the UK however i feel against it now for many reasons

 

-We have armed police already, and they are the ones who get sent to incidents involving firearms and the times when firearms are only found out when beat bobbys turn up then the criminal either runs away or the ARV responds quickly which is how it should work, in the meantime the cop is meant to asses the situation and think what will happen and frankly in most of the incidents where cops have been shot the police probably wouldnt have had time to react anyway. I would still advocate having more armed police and maybe having about 50% of the force TRAINED with firearms but not carrying constantly, instead every station should have at least two armed police as a Quick reaction force which is roughly how it works already.

 

-I dont like the idea of having a paramilitary which is what the police would effectively become if they all firearms.

 

-If a policeman has a firearm it will escalate the situation leading to shootouts between police and criminals hurting civilians and causing more deaths. As well as this it will INCREASE the likelihood of the constable getting shot as a criminal will respond by shooting straight off because hes scared the police will shoot him anyway. We can see this by the massive amount of cop deaths in the USA due to gunfights.

 

-Better to have a properly equipped Tactical Firearms squad with all the training and equipment and bigger guns who are able to totally take over the situation and decrease the likelihood of innocent deaths as well as the protection to the policemen themselves that numbers and equipment will give. As opposed to a couple of officers armed with a pistol who might or might not be able to properly control a situation with armed gunmen. The low amount of properly trained armed police who die in firearms situations as compared to US cops improvising in a situation with a couple of pistols and maybe a shotgun should attest to this.

 

-As said before and its true, criminals WILL outgun police, police get pistols, criminals will get SMGs/assault rifles and will be more likely to use them as well result in increasingly lethal shootouts.

 

-I dont like the feeling i get when im talking to police in america of "i might just get shot by a policeman over a routine thing"

 

Quite simply the UK isn’t the same as it was 10 - 15 years ago. We have seen an increase in gun crime and our Police Officers are left with only a baton and cuffs in which to defend themselves which can only be used at close quarters.

 

I think you mean the amount of incidents involving pimply kids with BB guns has increased....

 

I live in London, and when I see officers with MP5’s, I feel more safe in London’s new wave of terrorist attacks. I am not put off by this at all.

 

I totally agree that maybe london should have i high ratio of armed police on the streets but i still feel that little lonelytown/90% of the country doesnt need PC plod packing heat. Perhaps 50% of police trained and a little common sense used when deciding if they want to take a firearm out? for example mccrapinton drug district might need the option of a firearm a bit more than some middle class suburb or wherever...