Star M249 Para Examined...

[[H&K]Ravizzone]

"plastic" is such a generic term. the gearbox is made of polycarbonate. which is actually pretty expensive material, alot more expensive than pot metal anyway.

Star didn't use it because its cheap, they used it because its BETTER.

 

I've dealt with polycarbonate windows, the stuff is strong as hell. i really dont see an AEG being able to produce enough torque to break the gearbox. We have'nt heard of any breaks yet have we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah a lot of people think metal>plastic always, but actually sometimes, especially in AEG's plastic is sturdier, and heavier than metal.

[eldelphi]

hey, is it safe to say that because this is a support weapon, the gearbox is extra durable and therefore can handle the strain of prolonged burts (..say 10-15 seconds worth of continuous shooting) Or is it just the body of a saw and the gearbox of a regular AEG and therefore the user should restrain themselves to the regular 2-3 second bursts? Whats the offcial STAR standpoint on this? any one who owns it can share their endurance test as well. thanks.

[mightyjebus]

excellent review one again.

I have a couple of questions.

being british i would like to remove the rear sight and replace it with a rail and susat sight (both metal). do you think the plastic is up to the job or will it snap?

 

do you think the cocking handle could be modded to work? maybe a similar setup to the TM ak47 cocking handle for instance.

 

I noticed in one of your photos that the M16 magwell has a moulded piece of plastic attached by 2 screws, obviously this part isn't functioning but could it be replaced and allow for M16 mags to work?

i know no one makes this part but I could probably make it myself.

 

thanks again for an excellent review

 

Edited December 4, 2005 by mightyjebus

[WarMonger]

hey, is it safe to say that because this is a support weapon, the gearbox is extra durable and therefore can handle the strain of prolonged burts (..say 10-15 seconds worth of continuous shooting)  Or is it just the body of a saw and the gearbox of a regular AEG and therefore the user should restrain themselves to the regular 2-3 second bursts?   Whats the offcial STAR standpoint on this? any one who owns it can share their endurance test as well.  thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The gearbox is a PCG style gearbox like the ones found in other support weapons, its long and rectangular and very thick. The design is much stronger than a standard AEG style gearbox. I don't see any harm being done by continuous shooting on the stock gearbox, by thats just my opinion.

 

 

excellent review one again.

I have a couple of questions.

being british i would like to remove the rear sight and replace it with a rail and susat sight (both metal). do you think the plastic is up to the job or will it snap?

 

i think it would be fine so long as you dont drop the gun upside down directly on the scope.

 

do you think the cocking handle could be modded to work? maybe a similar setup to the TM ak47 cocking handle for instance.

 

the fact that the cocking handle is molded right into the reciever, and the top cover has no channel for it to slide back, and there isnt much room to put in some kind of spring mechanism would make this very difficult.

I noticed in one of your photos that the M16 magwell has a moulded piece of plastic attached by 2 screws, obviously this part isn't  functioning but could it be replaced and allow for M16 mags to work?

i know no one makes this part but I could probably make it myself.

 

if you look closely you'll see that only the top panel of the magwell is held on by the two screws, the rest of the magwell is molded right into the reciever. its also a completely different shape and size of an m16 mag. you would also have to rig up some kind of mag catch. and re-route the wires and mount the battery somewhere else due to the fact the gun is powered through the contacts inside the magwell.

thanks again for an excellent review   

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited December 4, 2005 by WarMonger

[Slo]

About the prolonged bursts thing - I've done a burst of about 15 seconds holding off 6 guys and nothing untoward has happened. Have done shorter bursts of 7-10 seconds multiple times in the same game. The STAR just kept chuggin along. It has definitely impressed me. My M60E3S didn't fire more than 6,000 rounds in STOCK form before it tore the bellows . . . . . .

 

-Slo

Edited December 4, 2005 by Slo

[scott11111]

why dose everyone want a real gun for £369 buy a classic army one

[UrPeaceKeeper]

why dose everyone want a real gun for £369 buy a classic army one

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmm maybe because I dont want to spend 1000+ USD to have a gun that strips a piston every 4 box mags? (at least thats what happening to one of the guys I play with....)

[Trasher]

Hmm maybe because I dont want to spend 1000+ USD to have a gun that strips a piston every 4 box mags? (at least thats what happening to one of the guys I play with....)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell him that he is a miserable airsmith and he should leave his guns alone... and he should read the instructions before destroying the next piston.

[Hillslam]

Tell him that he is a miserable airsmith and he should leave his guns alone... and he should read the instructions before destroying the next piston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was going to say Thrasher. UrPeaceKeeper, your friend obviously is doing something wrong; too high a spring with the wrong supporting parts, or some other misuse or bad recipe of components. I feel safe in saying if he tried the same cocktail of bad ingredients in a STAR it would fair no better.

 

And I'll repeat it again - I like this Star gun, but don't think the CA isn't worth its money: I am closing on 80k skirmish rounds put thru it with all but the first 5k rounds fired at over 400fps - a good chunk well over But then, I read the manual and don't over adjust my hopup All stock mech internals (yes even the bushings, though I have replacements waiting on deck) save for the spring (obviously) and the stock piston, which wore out at ~60k rounds. The thing's been dropped, rolled on, sat on, stepped on, and smashed into trees, concrete, walls, bricks, metal vehicles, ...i.e. abused properly.

 

When a STAR owner gets there with the same track record I'll shake their hand and say "that's good support gunning, brother, keep er up".

 

Eh, like I said, this STAR gun is a good thing. But you don't need to make up, overblow, or repeat the same couple QA horror stories ad nauseum on the CA gun to justify buying one. Buy the gun you want, for your own reasons, and just enjoy it! (Sux that the metal upgrade parts for CA and TOP maybe don't fit it. Thats a bummer.)

 

I'm just happy there's an alternative to the high cost saws with a true saw-capable mechbox (theoretically) and it isn't another HK or aK with a c-mag out there uglying up our fields (ugh). Hooray for STAR!

Edited December 5, 2005 by Hillslam

[wyrwolff]

I'm just happy there's an alternative to the high cost saws with a true saw-capable mechbox (theoretically) and it isn't another HK or aK with a c-mag out there uglying up our fields (ugh). Hooray for STAR!

 

A c-mag does not a proper SAW make Or, God forbid, one of those CAW (IIRC) box mag thingies that I saw at AEX the other day. Those things're fugly to the extreme. In addition to the proper mindset, a SAW gunner should have the proper wpn .

 

I'm one of those bb-magnet souls that's going to be picking up a SAW soon, and I greatly appreciate the articles that folks like Staticzero and others take the time and effort to write. Thanks! Hopefully I'll see ya' (Staticzero) at Ft. Ord on the 18th (and hopefully your SAW's on my team ).

 

Jesse

[steel tiger]

hey my m249 is on the way guys. i dont know which one cause it is a supprise from my wife. well the shop that ordered did say it was shooting 330 with .25's danm!! well anyways have you guys been running any 9.6 bats off it. all i got is a large 9.2 2000mah battery will that be safe to run it for a few games till i order a large 8.4 thanks for all the great reviews and every thing guys

Tiger

[Slo]

I've run a 9.6 2400 mah batt on mine for the past 13,000 rounds and nothing untoward has happened, BUT - and a I do stress the but, I know my way around a mechbox, so if something breaks, I'm not too concerned. Star recommends on an 8.4 in stock configuration, so you might do best to hold off if you're worried about breaking something. If you know your way around a gearbox and aren't worried about having to replace stuff, I'd recommend the 9.6 - the ROF is absolutely hellacious even with a stiffer than stock spring.

 

-Slo

[Zrilobyte]

Ok, fantastic review, i want one now.

[birddog]

I used my STAR Para this weekend and it rocked. The little bastage really spits the BBs out. And my favorite aspect of the gun? It's LIGHT....I can carry it all day without getting tired.

 

I saw an interesting mode of failure in a new, out-of-the-box-5-minutes-ago CA249 MKII. The gun was new and unused and when shot for the first time it fired BB's for about 5 seconds and then began emitting wisps of white smoke. The owner stopped firing when he saw the smoke. Once the smoke stopped, we attempted to fire the gun again and the gearbox cycled and sounded normal but BB's weren't being shot out of the barrel. An inspection showed that the nozzle didn't move when fired. Whatever happened had affected the Tappet Plate.

 

An examination showed that the Tappet Plate spring had rubbed against the upper trigger switch wire and shorted it out, melting the plastic nub off the Tappet Plate where the spring hooks on. The bottom of the Tappet Plate had a melted trough in it approximating the size of the Tappet Spring. The spring was burnt so bad it became brittle and broken into several pieces. The switch was fine but the wire was scorched. It's a good thing the wiring was silicon wire.

 

Apparently, the spring shorted against the switch contact and overheated to the point of melting the Tappet Plate.

Edited December 6, 2005 by birddog

[Rapier]

Ya know normaly when something smokes you should stop and try and find out what made the smoke, not just try it again.

[birddog]

Ya know normaly when something smokes you should stop and try and find out what made the smoke, not just try it again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No ###### Sherlock....

Edited December 6, 2005 by birddog

[WarMonger]

maybe its just me, but i've read/heard about many CA 249's sustaining serious breakage right out of the box. but i still haven't heard of any STAR m249's having any real serious problems.

 

i know i know, "its still new", "hasnt been out long enough", blah blah blah. The fact is, CA releases guns before they should ever leave the factory. I'd rather have my 600$ plastic SAW that i cant take on the field with confidence, than a 1000$ heap of scrap metal in which the piston may blow apart simply because i over-adjusted the hop up.

[staticzero]

Yep. There have been some one-off issues, but I have yet to hear about any repeat offenses. Certainly nothing I'd say they're known for yet, unlike the CA. Time will tell.

 

On the topic, I have a question for all those who've bought the Star and chronoed it in stock form. What was your FPS and how consistent was it?

 

I'd like to determine if my gun's FPS inconsistency out of the box was limited to my gun, or if the problem is more widespread.

 

Even if you've put a stronger spring it (even if it's over the forum limit), if you could at least tell me how much deviation there was (even if you can't mention the actual FPS) that would be good too.

 

Thanks!

 

Also, my new 9.6v IB3800-based pack arrived yesterday. The thing is a monster. According to my charger, it took an initial charge of about 4000mAh. I dry fired it briefly this morning, and even with the stronger spring the ROF was so fast I think I almost peed myself a little when I heard it.

 

I'm planning on shooting some video of it this week.

[Slo]

Stock FPS even after replacing the piston head o-ring and even after checking cylinder compression at the air nozzle, the FPS wasn't that great in stock form. Though, I was using a crappy paintball radar chrono, but even so, it said I was shooting barely 310, with a low of 298 and a high of 315. It's hard a ###### to chrono it simply because there's no semi auto, and the chrono has a nasty habit of going to RPS instead of showing FPS numbers when you go full auto over it. Also, being since it's FA only, the piston is never cycling one complete time over and over, so I attribute the deviations because of that. I mean one shot you may get a full stroke on the piston, the next you might get a half stroke, which of course is going to give you slightly less FPS that time. That's my theory.

 

I did just put in a PDI (insert high number here) over the weekend but did not get a chance to chrono it. I did notice a marked increase in range and ability to punch em into bushes. I think she's shooting over the current forum limits by a tad bit now, which makes me a much happier camper. Also installed a Prometheus hard hop up rubber bucking, because after pulling the inner barrel and hop up apart, I noticed that the stock rubber bucking was A: soft as hell, B: already showing wear from what I'd put through the gun and just plain didn't fit all that well. My barrel might be getting a better air seal on this end now, but I'm not 100% certain. I like the piece of mind in any case.

 

I have a question of my own - did all of you STAR Para owners notice that if you pull the Para flash hider off, the inner barrel kind of flops around, being able to move it off center by as much as an inch? I was getting terrible groupings until I put an o-ring down the length of the inner barrel and into the outer barrel keeping the barrel from deviating. Now it's rock solid and the gun shoots like a laser. I was just wondering, has anyone else encountered this? Or did my barrel just not get a spacer?

 

-Slo

Edited December 7, 2005 by Slo

[staticzero]

With my flash hider off, the barrel can move around. But with the flash hider on, it stays put. Was this not the case for you?

 

Also, I'm curious what you had to do to get the inner barrel/hop up unit out. I know what I had to do (and I'm working on a write up of it) but I'd be interested to see if I went to far with it.

 

Good idea with the spacer though, I'll have to try that and see if it makes a difference as far as my groupings.

Edited December 7, 2005 by staticzero

[Slo]

Yeah, I noticed that if I shook the gun, I could hear the rattling of the inner barrel slapping around in there. Intrigued, and wondering why the hell my groupings were ALL over the place, I shoved an o-ring down there and found it shot 200% better.

 

Anyhoo, here's what I did to pull the barrel:

 

I pulled the two screws on the side of the gun, the one under the barrel change lever and the one on the other side just in front of the cocking handle.

 

Then I pulled the e-clip on the pin and the pin and spring holding the barrel change lever and pulled it off.

 

Then I undid the large philips head screw under that and pulled the feed tray cover assembly off.

 

Then, I just pull on the entire front barrel assembly towards the front of the gun and voila, out she slides.

 

It was a pleasant surprise actually, because I was expecting a completely different method when I was tearing it down.

 

 

-Slo

Edited December 7, 2005 by Slo

[staticzero]

Ah, so you removed the barrel release lever too. That's what I was wondering about. The reason I ask is that I found putting the lever back to be a bit of a nightmare (specifically getting the spring back in the right position). Did you figure out an easy way to get it back together? I was hoping to figure out if there's a way to do it without removing the lever otherwise.

 

Personally, I'd rather it just pull out the back of the gun once the gearbox is removed (like so many other guns). I might see about modding it to work that way.

Edited December 7, 2005 by staticzero

[Slo]

Yeah I had a time getting it back in where it was 'springy' again. What I do is put the gun down on it's right side, then I put the spring with the short extended piece into the lever itself with the longer end pointing outward and out of the lever.

 

Next, it requires a balancing act, but you keep the gun level on it's side, place the lever in without moving the spring from it's position lined up with the lever hole - it will stay lined up with the hole if it's not shook, and then put the pin back in. Be sure to have the pin handy to be ready to stick in there.

 

Then, put the E-clip back on and you'll notice the long piece of the spring should be sticking out and that the lever just kind of flops around. I then take a flat bladed screw driver and push the spring piece down into the space between the lever and feed cover. Dunno if that's recommended, or exactly the right way to accomplish it, but the result is that it returns the barrel release lever back to it's full springyness (Is that a word? I doubt it.). It sounds like a PITA, but after doing it a few times, it's the easiest way I can come up with. It's either that, or have the lever just flop around clanking back and forth everytime I move the gun.

 

I wish it was easier to get the whole assembly out, I thought I could just loosen the two screws on both sides and the entire barrel assembly along with the feed tray cover would come off. Tried that to no avail and I just could not figure out a way to do it without pulling the barrel release lever. D'oh.

 

As for the inner barrel and hop up unit coming out the back of the gun, I hear ya. That's the way I was expecting it to come out as well. I tore everything down and I was like, how in the hell are you supposed to do this without pulling the ENTIRE gun apart? Honestly, the way they have it set up with the entire barrel assembly sliding out the way it does after removing three screws, they COULD'VE engineered it to have a quick change barrel system like the TOP and CA models. Would've made things much simpler, but I guess we can't have it all.

 

-Slo

Edited December 7, 2005 by Slo

[staticzero]

Cool. That's what I thought you'd say. Well, nothing stopping me from finishing that write up now. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Slo]

No problemo. Glad I could help.

 

-Slo