Star M249 Para Examined...

[birddog]

birddog- can you tell me what spring you used, i'm looking to put one in mine, but i dont want to lose and firing rate.

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PDI 170. I don't use irregular pitch springs in any of my guns.

[SubSeven]

That was an interesting gun to see shoot... very fast ROF, a bit too light for my tastes when I held a para at T4T... might I say again Fairchild... some nice shooting on that second game ... albeit it woulda been nice having you down on the beach shooting up the hill .

 

Alex "Col Sanders"

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hmmm...Thanks~! Its a differant state of mind being a SAW gunner than a rifleman(which I prefer).

And on the hill thing...I was providing flank security on the Jeep trails. There was a whole lotta trouble on our right flank, and there was seriously only like 4 of us there keeping them at bay. By the time I worked my way down to the beach, the mission was over.

 

On the lightness thing....Its not like its really really light. After the battery, 2500 rds, and a bag of bb's in the stock, my gun weighed in around 10-12 pounds.

[Jimisin73]

Guys just a quick thought:

Do you think it's fair to be overly critical of a gun's design, after you have cracked open the gear box and modified it? The gun I used this weekend was dead stock and worked extremely well. I guess my point is that this is a review of the stock gun. Once you put a new spring in (as with any mod) its not really the manufacturer's fault if it doesn't work right or wasn't engineered to handle the extra stress.

 

Ok now that I've gotten that out of the way:

 

What was the gearbox like to work on?

How tough was it to change springs?

Can you replace the piston with standard parts or is it unique?

What mods do you think will work on this gun (ie. tightbore, gear change, higher torque motor etc.)?

[staticzero]

Thanks to everyone who provided field reports, good to hear the guns are mostly holding up well.

 

To those who have encountered issues (broken sight post, bad feeding mag, etc) I want to stress to you that you shouldn't just settle in and live with these issues! I want to encourage you to speak up to your retailer and demand reparations. You shouldn't have to live with problems that occur out of the box. Contact your retailer and ask what can be done!

 

As for criticizing the thing once it's been upgraded, I think it's fair. How well it holds up to mods (a stronger spring specifically) shows how strong the gun would likely be without them. For the record mine is doing great with an upgraded spring with well over 5000 rounds through it now.

 

Next, some technical notes...

 

I took a few measurements of some of the parts I want to try and swap out, just to see what happens for the most part. Foremost, I need to determine what kind of nozzle this is, and the cylinder head too. Here's what I got:

 

.918" length, nozzle (AUG maybe? Def. longer than a M4/m16 part.)

 

.553" cylinder head/tappet plate clearance (width of the cutout in the head that the tapppet plate goes up into to connect to the nozzle. I think the tappet may be for a v3, the one I have from my UMG (a v3 gearbox) is .541" wide. The tappet won't fit a v2 cylinder head.)

 

.656" cylinder head stem length (I'm thinking the cylinder head is a v3...)

 

.160" cylinder head holes (in each side that keep it centered in the gearbox)

 

I need to measure some parts from other gearboxes/guns to see what's what here.

 

Also, I chonoed my gun again having fixed the compression issues I was having, stabilizing the FPS for the most part. Well, with the stock spring, I'm getting around 330 FPS, with an M100 I'm getting 295, and I won't mention what I'm getting with a stronger spring in this very polite company. Interesting results. I'm still not sure why, but this gun is not making the power it should with each spring. My next guess is a leak in or about the hop up unit.

 

Which brings me to a warning. There's still the 1J rule in effect 'round these parts. DO NOT talk about springs over 1J. Conventionally, this means nothing higher than an M100. I don't want the mods to have to come in and clean house, or worse, lock this thread. Send PMs if you have to talk about that topic. Thanks!

 

Next, while I did cover a bit of this (refer to my other posts in this thread for more), here:

 

What was the gearbox like to work on? - Easy, just don't loose the nuts.

How tough was it to change springs? - Cake. No trouble at all. 30 seconds to do.

Can you replace the piston with standard parts or is it unique? - More or less standard, but as I mentioned the Guarder piston I tested was too tight for the tracks. CA and Systema seemed to fit fine though.

What mods do you think will work on this gun (ie. tightbore, gear change, higher torque motor etc.)? - Any of this should work fine.

 

On the subject of the support gunner role, it sure is a lot different that that of a rifleman, or a sniper, or grenadier, or a solid snake type for that matter. All of them are fun in their own ways, and I've tried them all. I have to say I enjoyed being a support gunner, but I'll be going easy on it in the future. Too high a BB requirement! This is why I like airsoft though, you get to try all this out with the only real cost being finical. SO fun. I just hope next time all my friend make it out so I can try it as part of a proper fire team.

Edited November 22, 2005 by staticzero

[Jimisin73]

As for criticizing the thing once it's been upgraded, I think it's fair. How well it holds up to mods shows how strong the gun would likely be without them. For the record mine is doing great with an upgraded spring with well over 5000 rounds through it now.

 

 

 

Next, while I did cover a bit of this (refer to my other posts in this thread for more), here....

 

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Point taken and thanks for the quick summary

 

With regard to damaged guns and problems, I would also encourage you guys to approach your dealers, because if there are indeed issues with either QC or design some of this info may actually get back to STAR and could result in better product down the road.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Jimisin73

[airsoftgi]

The front sight is on its way to the gent, we took it out from one of our new gun and sent it( have to wait for STAR to give us few). We already inform and pass on the pictures to STAR and distrubtor. Believe us, STAR had done pretty well counting this is their first major run at the AEG in US. As far as the miss feeding, the first thing you should check is the connection of the magazine to the main body. There are 4 contacts and you will have to make sure they are all touching.

Edited November 22, 2005 by airsoftgi

[SubSeven]

The front sight is on its way to the gent, we took it out from one of our new gun and sent it( have to wait for STAR to give us few).  We already inform and pass on the pictures to STAR and distrubtor.  Believe us, STAR had done pretty well counting this is their first major run at the AEG in US.  As far as the miss feeding, the first thing you should check is the connection of the magazine to the main body.  There are 4 contacts and you will have to make sure they are all touching.

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Thanks GI, I will check the mag more in depth today after I get off of work.

If I still cant get it feeding right, is there anything you can do to help me? I purchased the gun from you, and would like to have a smoothly feeding gun. I would think that maybe the misfeeding would also be attributing to the piston stress I was talking about earlier.

 

Thanks

Michael Fairchild

[popeye]

Subseven,

Have you tried putting the stock spring back in the gun and then checking whether you are still having feeding problems? I would be curious to know whether this could be the issue.

 

I know Static hasn't been having this problem, but he has changed more than the spring. Mine will be arriving next monday, so I really appreciate the benefit of the testing that current owners are doing.

[Ripper517]

Im considering it depending on what happens with my funds. I will be replacing the piston, getting a metal body and so on if i do get one.

[birddog]

The front sight is on its way to the gent.....

 

Hi Walter,

 

Thanks for the quick response. On a positive note, AirsoftGI has excellent customer service. Some of the best. As soon as I get the replacement sight I'll slap that puppy on my SAW.

 

The short answer to some of the previous questions:

 

What was the gearbox like to work on? Piece of cake

How tough was it to change springs? 30 seconds, blindfolded

Can you replace the piston with standard parts or is it unique? Takes a narrower piston. A Deepfire won't fit

What mods do you think will work on this gun (ie. tightbore, gear change, higher torque motor etc.)? All the above and then some. Personally, I'd wait for the complete gearbox from STAR.

[SubSeven]

hey Popeye, it still missfires with stock spring in it...Im pretty sure its the mag, thats causing the problems, even though im going to check out if it isnt the contacts to the gun that isnt the problem.

 

 

On a side note, becuase I have been PM'd about the stock...

 

The stock is very sturdy. I cant really forsee any problems with it except maybe the sling attachment. It still makes me leary as its plastic, but it is a heavy duty thick plastic, and I ran around all day with the specter 3-point sling on it with no problems. Only time will tell for sure...

Edited November 22, 2005 by SubSeven

[Slo]

Just received mine today and I must echo everyone's positives. This is a very nice gun, and yes it is light, but I think it's a comfortable light and not a 'toyish' kind of weight. I carry enough ###### as it is and this gun feels very nice.

 

Cycled about 1500 rounds through it with no problems, either in the feeding department or the gearbox side. Did have some trouble when I first hooked up the battery though - one of the contacts from the magazine that goes into the side of the gun was kind of off kilter and all it took was some pulling with a hobby knife and bam, she fired right up.

 

Gearbox operation sounds very smooth also - basically all you can hear is the piston thumping and slight motor whirring. Haven't had a chance to put it up to a chrono yet, but I'd guesstimate same as everyone else - the 330-335 fps mark.

 

Overall, a very pleasant surprise - and though I haven't taken it into battle, I think this is definitely a great SAW for those who either are on a budget, or like me, are happy without paying $500 dollars more for the CA version for what amounts to 5 extra pounds of metal.

 

-Slo

 

EDIT: Forgot to add this, but my only gripe with the gun is that the pistol grip feels kind of cheap to me. It just feels like hollow plastic that could easily break and when I first picked it up, I was leary about holding it with just one hand. Seems to hold okay, but I wouldn't want to torque the gun at that particular point.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Slo

[Rapier]

Hey, I'm the one that sold the one Subseven was talking about that blew the piston. I guess it actualy cracked in half! Anyone else ever heard of this? The owner is bringing me the piston in the next few days as he swaped it out with one he had laying around and it seems to be working fine. As soon as I get it it's going back to STAR so they can find out what happened. I'll try and post pics of it for you all to see.

[SubSeven]

Hey, I'm the one that sold the one Subseven was talking about that blew the piston. I guess it actualy cracked in half! Anyone else ever heard of this? The owner is bringing me the piston in the next few days as he swaped it out with one he had laying around and it seems to be working fine. As soon as I get it it's going back to STAR so they can find out what happened. I'll try and post pics of it for you all to see.

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Wow! Cracked in half? I hadnt heard that. I was under the impression it just stripped. Got my info from Tascabe...who also thought that the gun was stock.

Maybe you could shed some light on that?

 

Thanks!

[ColSanders]

I do believe he mentioned it was completely stock... must have sucked for him though, walking back after putting a good burst our direction in the first game. Stuff happens though... If I hadn't just spent $1300 on my AK set up I would concider getting one of these... but the AKs going to get more TLC before I concider another gun... unless its another AK... for backup...

 

Alex "Col Sanders"

[popeye]

What was the temperature when he cracked the box? Could be as simple as a factory defect (hopefully).

 

I know you can crack a metal gearbox if it's cold enough, I wonder if you can do the same to polycarb.

[The Original SaXoN]

Has anyone managed to try out any after market parts for the TOP/CA versions yet, to see if they are compatible? This is the only thing preventing me from buying one right this very second! Come on retailers it wouldn't take you 5 mins to swap a few top plates or fore grips over to see if they fit. (I want a railed top plate and RAS fore grip for mine if you hadn't guessed it already)

[Trasher]

Yea the piston seems to be junk, really dissapointing that neither STAR or CA can make a good piston, especially when Marui's stock pistons are so good.

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My stock CA piston ran 20k rounds before I replaced it in the CA249. My Guarder polycarb piston snapped in 6-7k rounds... So I use the stock CA piston again, until replacement arrives. Edited November 23, 2005 by Trasher

[Skarclaw]

Im considering it depending on what happens with my funds. I will be replacing the piston, getting a metal body and so on if i do get one.

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Pointless.

[staticzero]

What was the temperature when he cracked the box?  Could be as simple as a factory defect (hopefully). 

 

I know you can crack a metal gearbox if it's cold enough, I wonder if you can do the same to polycarb.

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No one said anything about cracking the gearbox. They're talking about the piston.

[popeye]

No one said anything about cracking the gearbox. They're talking about the piston.

 

You are absolutely correct. I was confusing it with something from another thread. My mistake.

[Rapier]

As far as I know it was decent weather. about upper 50's or so. Subseven or Col Sanders can correct me if I'm wrong. I couldn't go to the game since I just opened a new store that week. And as Col Sanders pointed out, it was the piston that broke, not the box. He replaced the piston and said the gear box was actually put together really well aside from that.

[ColSanders]

What Rapier said... When we first started playing it might have been in the low 40s (I had a hoody under my BDUs and gear and still was on the cold side), but not cold enough it should of had any effect like that.

 

Long term longivity though... well... Subseven... start bringing it to OFK ...

 

Alex "Col Sanders"

[eldelphi]

I received mine today from Airsoft Gi. The box mag is broken and my gun is totally useless! haha. sigh. The feed connector that supplies BB's and electricity from the magazine to the gun is cracked, and therefore I am afraid it will break once plugged in. So to prevent any further damage (in case i have to send it back) i'm gonna leave it unpluged. This has to be THE MAJOR FLAW of this gun. One would think that THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE of this weapon would be made out of a sturdier material other than cheap plastic. (and i DO MEAN CHEAP. There are two very thin pieces of plastic which u have to squeeze together to allow the connector to slide into the receiving metal pins. This means that this feed connector has to endure the wear and tear of reloading; which begs the question: how long would this piece last under heavy use? ) Its seems like a serious design flaw, where someone who isn't careful, squeezing too hard, can snap them off, rendering their gun useless.

 

My handle grip was split in two pieces when i got my gun. I was shocked, but carefully pushed them back together. However i get nervous now, every time i lift the gun as it doesn't feel solid. I think someone else mentioned this problem earlier in the thread.

 

Don't get me wrong; I'm not knocking the gun. Its one bad @$$ SAW and i am proud to own it. But it seems that Star is on a hit or miss basis with this M249: some people get it in good working order, some are SOL. I believe that buying a gun shouldn't be a gamble. Star needs to improve their reliability in their products. Granted, some of the problems might be with shipping, but if their products can't withstand UPS, then how will they compete in the field?!! There is nothing worse than having a brand new broken gun. And to those who say: "you get what u paid for".... "$600 should at LEAST guarantee a working item right out of the box.... if it fails later,.. well fine, but at least u had your fun.

 

question to someone who knows: how do u raise the carry handle on the m249... force? or is there a release button?

ALSO: the same question for the flip up shoulder rest on the stock.

 

Thanks.

[SubSeven]

I received mine today from Airsoft Gi.  The box mag is broken and my gun is totally useless!  haha.    sigh.  The feed connector that supplies BB's and electricity from the magazine to the gun is cracked, and therefore I am afraid it will break once plugged in.  So to prevent any further damage (in case i have to send it back) i'm gonna leave it unpluged.  This has to be THE MAJOR FLAW of this gun.  One would think that THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE of this weapon would be made out of a sturdier material other than cheap plastic. (and i DO MEAN CHEAP.  There are two very thin pieces of plastic which u have to squeeze together to allow the connector to slide into the receiving metal pins.  This means that this feed connector has to endure the wear and tear of reloading; which begs the question: how long would this piece last under heavy use? )  Its seems like a serious design flaw, where someone who isn't careful, squeezing too hard, can snap them off, rendering their gun useless. 

 

My handle grip was split in two pieces when i got my gun.  I was shocked, but carefully pushed them back together.  However i get nervous now, every time i lift the gun as it  doesn't feel solid.  I think someone else mentioned this problem earlier in the thread.

 

Don't  get me wrong; I'm not knocking the gun.  Its one bad @$$ SAW and i am proud to own it.  But it seems that Star is on a hit or miss basis with this M249: some people get it in good working order, some are SOL. I believe that buying a gun shouldn't be a gamble. Star needs to improve their reliability in their products.  Granted, some of the problems might be  with shipping, but if their products can't withstand UPS, then how will they compete in the field?!!  There is nothing worse than having a brand new broken gun.  And to those who say: "you get what u paid for".... "$600 should at LEAST guarantee a working item right out of the box.... if it fails later,.. well fine, but at least u had your fun. 

 

question to someone who knows: how do u raise the carry handle on the m249... force? or is there a release button? 

ALSO:  the same question for the flip up shoulder rest on the stock.

 

Thanks.

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Sorry about your gun man. This usually happens to new runs of guns. My friends CA 249 has been busted more than its been shooting. All of which are results from poor QC.

 

Anyway, pull the handle back towards you and then rotate it upwards. Also you just pull that metal shoulder rest up. Its pretty tough but it does come up. After its up, you just slide the end of the stock off reveiling the storage area in the stock. Great place to store a bag a bb's