Army Armament R85 (L85A1)

[Domz]

http://www.powerupgrade.cz/ the spacer is fairly expensive without a sector gear that the redwolf one has tbh... but still.

 

I forget if a tm sector gear were fitted and a piston spacer whether the blowback would have to be disabled... If the pre-cocking is removed wouldn't the blow back mech have to be reversed somehow?

normally it goes back as the piston goes forward doesn't it?

Sorry for not relooking back but Ive done enough of that for a while recently on this post.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Domz

[Adamr85]

I wouldn't run a 10.8v without doing some internal work. Guaranteed it would destroy the blowback mechanism, and I'd be willing to bet it will shred the piston as well. I don't think there is any stock gun I would run a 10.8v in, not without a piston, piston head, cylinder head. Others who have actually done it may have better info though.

 

As for the upgrades I've dropped a Systema 6.04 in mine combined with a G&P metal hopup unit. I found I lost a little FPS -went from about 345 to 335 on 0.20's. After I get a chance to skirmish it I'll see how it does, I may swap out the spring with a more powerful one.

Thanks for the response. Thats very interesting about the hop-up and barrel, I was looking at probably the same hop-up so maybe I will hold out on getting it. Please do post about how well it works. I don't intend on running it with the blow-back, as much as I like the feature I don't see it contributing to the guns performance. Has anyone tried higher voltages and seen the performance? Ive been through the thread and what I found was talk about lowering the voltage or maintaining it, no one seems to have tried higher voltage. Why would the ROF affect the piston and cylinder. I thought that was affected more by spring strength.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Adamr85

[kalnaren]

Thanks for the response. Thats very interesting about the hop-up and barrel, I was looking at probably the same hop-up so maybe I will hold out on getting it. Please do post about how well it works. I don't intend on running it with the blow-back, as much as I like the feature I don't see it contributing to the guns performance. Has anyone tried higher voltages and seen the performance? Ive been through the thread and what I found was talk about lowering the voltage or maintaining it, no one seems to have tried higher voltage. Why would the ROF affect the piston and cylinder. I thought that was affected more by spring strength.

 

A higher ROF is going to cycle the mechbox a lot faster, which means more frequent impact loads on the piston head and cylinder head. Generally this will wear it out faster. With a stock spring it's not much of an issue. It becomes more of a problem with upgrades (blowing off the front of a V2 mechbox anyone?). The other thing to consider (not so much here since we can put a 400fps spring in a gun, not sure about the UK) is that on a really high ROF with a stock spring, the piston may not have time to come all the way forward before the mechbox fully cycles. This will cause it to "catch" the piston on its forward stroke, which will strip the piston teeth and probably isn't too good for the gears either.

 

About the inner barrel, I should mention that the Systema one is "wider" than the stock one; Ie, I actually had trouble fitting it through the front of the outer barrel where the flashhider screws on. I had to lube the hell out of the outside of the hop-up rubber to get the thing into the G&P hop-up unit. I'm not sure if the Army barrel is narrower, or if the Systema one is wider than most other inne

r barrels. As soon as I can skirmish this thing though I'll post back here on the results.

Edited February 2, 2008 by kalnaren

[Domz]

Yeah thats the reason noones using higher voltages, on this gun even with a 8.4, due to the longer piston, it doesn't have enough time to go forwards with the stock spring and setup before the gears have cycled again, which catches midway down the piston causing damage.

So increase the spring power/ speed of movement of the piston (make it lighter or make the piston head a worse seal), and or make it a standard 16 tooth, before upgrading the voltage or you'll have a bust piston in no time (a la mine.)

[Adamr85]

You would need a new set of gears if you were going to get a 16 tooth piston then right? Are there any recomendations for a 16 tooth piston and gears? How do you reduce the length of the cylinder?

[kalnaren]

You would need a new set of gears if you were going to get a 16 tooth piston then right? Are there any recomendations for a 16 tooth piston and gears? How do you reduce the length of the cylinder?

 

All you need is a new sector gear and a spacer that goes on the front of the piston. Redwolf has the kits.

 

Yeah thats the reason noones using higher voltages, on this gun even with a 8.4, due to the longer piston, it doesn't have enough time to go forwards with the stock spring and setup before the gears have cycled again, which catches midway down the piston causing damage.

So increase the spring power/ speed of movement of the piston (make it lighter or make the piston head a worse seal), and or make it a standard 16 tooth, before upgrading the voltage or you'll have a bust piston in no time (a la mine.)

 

Did you break yours using a "normal" 8.4v battery, or something a little more powerful? I'm thinking of putting a normal 8.4 in mine.

Edited February 3, 2008 by kalnaren

[ferdiii]

My Sa80 is working with a 8,4 volts battry and it goes OK

[rwoodcock01]

Just a little check in, I had one of the early R85's from Land Warrior and apart from the cocking handle being replaced (it broke off as the early ones did) it is standing up very well. I am running a high quality 8.4v battery and mine keeps going. Mine getting the most work as primary used every other weekend.

 

As a precaution I have invested in the redwolf spacer kit but I am in no rush yet to put it in.

 

Currently configured as an A1 with iron sights as I am old fashioned.

 

However if I can get the wife to swing for it I am hoping to pick up the Star UGL, I should imagine that it won't need to much modding to fit the R85.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

[Adamr85]

Okay, I'm going to abandon the idea of a higher voltage as the cheapest gears I could find were like 75 roughly and pretty much everyone has said its bad to just drop a higher voltage battery into the gun. But Evike.com has done a pre-upgrade with the gun using the following items:

 

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=1636

an M120 spring (12.00 dollars) (390fps roughly).

and they reshimmed it.

 

Q1: I know I can replace the spring and piston no problem but reshimming is going to be a new experience. Is there a good guide to reshimming?

 

Q2: here's what Im looking for in the gun:

 

Same rof or better

greater velocity

greater accuracy

less electric noise

 

I know the piston, spring, and tight bore will help with velocity and accuracy but what is the cheapest/best way to maintain/increase ROF and is there a way to reduce the noise the electric motor makes?

[kalnaren]

Okay, I'm going to abandon the idea of a higher voltage as the cheapest gears I could find were like 75 roughly and pretty much everyone has said its bad to just drop a higher voltage battery into the gun. But Evike.com has done a pre-upgrade with the gun using the following items:

 

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=1636

an M120 spring (12.00 dollars) (390fps roughly).

and they reshimmed it.

 

Q1: I know I can replace the spring and piston no problem but reshimming is going to be a new experience. Is there a good guide to reshimming?

 

Q2: here's what Im looking for in the gun:

 

Same rof or better

greater velocity

greater accuracy

less electric noise

 

I know the piston, spring, and tight bore will help with velocity and accuracy but what is the cheapest/best way to maintain/increase ROF and is there a way to reduce the noise the electric motor makes?

 

You can't reduce the noise of the motor itself. You can reduce the noise of the piston by installing a silent piston head (will also increase life of piston). With a stronger spring you will also need a new spring guide, and if you're going for 400-ish FPS, you may want new bushings as well -I'm not sure how good the ones are that are in it. Another way to increase ROF without really replaceing anything is to open the mechbox, wipe away all the grease and oil, and re-grease it yourself using gearbox oil and lithium grease (G&P sells a grearbox grease set, which has 3 types of grease in it for the mechbox). A stronger spring will also reduce ROF. If you want a really high ROF you may need to replace the gears with torque-up ones. Another thing is that the L85 has a longer piston stroke than most guns, so it's probably unreasonable to assume you'll get the ROF out of it you can get from a V2 or V3 gun. What kind of ROF are you looking for anyway?

 

On another note, I ran mine today with a 1500mah 8.4v battery (Elite battery from cheapbatterypacks.com) and the performance increase was amazing. No more mechbox lockups, and an increased ROF. I ofund the ROF this battery gave the gun makes it very easy to fire off a 3-round burst when in full auto. ROF is probably around 12 RPS.

Edited February 4, 2008 by kalnaren

[3vi1-D4n]

R85A1 already comes with:

 

Metal bushings

Strengthened bearing spring guide

High torque motor (pulls an M130 on a 7.4v lipo at 700rpms)

One way piston head

 

Really what more is required other than a new spring?

 

Well perhaps a new tightbore? The R85A1 comes with a 6.08mm barrel.

 

Piston wise, I shaved off half of the 2nd last tooth. I have fired 2 mags from it and it seems to be fine, no wear at the moment.

 

The only issue I had with it was that the hop up unit was not fitting the hop rubber properly, deforming the lip of the rubber slightly and causing occasional jams. May just be my bad luck, but I swapped it out with a metal hopunit already.

 

The semi-auto lock can be solved by modifying the trigger mechanism so that when it hits the lock position, the disengager does not engage the contact block, and hence auto fire unjams the weapon. Simple 20min work, and this issue exist on the G&Gs anyways.

 

Other than that the gun is possibly the best clones of clones I have seen. QC on the mechbox(shimming and etc) is fantastic, though attaching silencers may be an issue cos the threads are not done in alignment.

 

Still a bit of work required but I am thoroughly happy about it.

 

Edited February 4, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n

[ferdiii]

Please 3vi1-D4n , Can you explain with more detalls how did you fix the problem of the semi -auto lock?I don´t understand you very well.Thanks

[3vi1-D4n]

Hard to explain without some diagrams.

 

Normally this is how the semi works:

 

1) semi-auto cutoff/disengager is DOWN

2) as the trigger is pressed, contact block is pushed forward via a sear (starts firing), sliding over the disengager while its DOWN

3) as gears rotate, disengager is pushed UP

4) contact block is pushed up, and slides over the sear back into off position (back).

 

Basically the lock up on most AEG occurs because:

 

1) The gear stops over the position that pushes the semi-auto cut-off/disengager UP

2) contact block is not pushed forward, gun is not firing

3) as the trigger is pressed, contact block is pushed forward via a sear, but slides OVER the disengager while its UP

4) hence its contact block is immediately pushed up and slides over the sear back into off position (back).

5) gun does not fire.

 

So what you want to do is:

 

1) The gear stops over the position that pushes the semi-auto cut-off/disengager UP

2) contact block is not pushed forward

3) as the trigger is pressed, contact block is pushed forward via a sear, but slides UNDER the disengager while its UP

4) that means the trigger will then fire on auto, but that means the AEG does not disengage/lock up and fails to fire.

 

All you change is to change the shape/slope of the two surfaces on the contact block and the disengager so when the disengager is UP, the contact block goes UNDER it.

 

http://airsoftnz.co.nz/forums/vbimghost.ph...;imgid=259' border=0

 

 

Good thing with the G&G and AA L85s is that it does not require a complete mech disassembly to take out the disengager and the contact block Then its just a good file/needle file and a bit of testing and all should be well.

Edited February 4, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n

[speculator]

The stock battery is pretty unreliable for me while skirmishing, can anyone suggest which battery I should upgrade to and where to find one (or if anyone is willing to offer theirs)?

[3vi1-D4n]

Well a 7.4v lipo on the R85 pulled it well on an M130, I don't see why a lipo cannot be used there.

[kalnaren]

The stock battery is pretty unreliable for me while skirmishing, can anyone suggest which battery I should upgrade to and where to find one (or if anyone is willing to offer theirs)?

 

I just used an Elite 1500mah mini 8.4v for testing, and it worked awsome. It's the same battery I use in my G36 pushing an equivalent spring.

[speculator]

How's the ROF on a 7.2v, are there any 8.4v alternatives in the market (or on sale in the forums)?

[3vi1-D4n]

A 7.4v Lithium Polymer is not the same as 7.2v Nicad/NiMH. A 7.4v >1500mah capacity Lipo can power up to M130s with small difference in ROF between a 9.6v 1500mah of the same size and capacity and can last just as long.

 

Its also beneficial to use lower voltages as the oxidising of the motor brushes as well as arcing/oxidising across contacts do not occur as frequently as with using 9.6v batteries. The trick is to use a hi-torque/super hi-torque motor in conjunction with the lipo as well build motors can take the current that the 7.4v Lipo can provide.

 

But in either case the R85A1 has a hi-torque motor, and a M100 spring so crappy batteries are ok for it, until you decide to upgrade higher, then more demanding battery packs are required. Hence the 7.4v Lipo is probably the way to go.

 

The 7.4v will still give very respectable ROF on stock springs while it can still keep up with the demand of the rifle up to an M130.

Edited February 4, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n

[speculator]

Whats a good place to purchase a 7.2 lipo for the R85? Im running on a m120 and upgraded upper gearbox so thats good to hear though, thanks dan.

[3vi1-D4n]

I would have thought it would be easy to find Lipos in China? I am sure RC shops would have them, else gunnerairsoft.com has them under "element" brand.

 

I swear by my korean lipos as I have had taiwanese ones die on me before.

 

You are looking specifically at 7.4v 1500mah/1800mah/2100mah 16-20C discharge cells that would fit into the foregrip of the L85A1. Else I have seen people using 11.1v on a G&G version but I wouldn't if I were you.

Edited February 5, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n

[speculator]

Im living at texas atm so finding lipos easily is a no go. Thanks for the advice, i'll see if I can good but affordable alternatives to the stock battery.

Edited February 5, 2008 by speculator

[kalnaren]

Im living at texas atm so finding lipos easily is a no go. Thanks for the advice, i'll see if I can good but affordable alternatives to the stock battery.

 

check out www.cheapbatterypacks.com. Good prices, well assembled batteries and good quality cells.

[3vi1-D4n]

Funny though I am using the stock battery now, and its powering my spring fine...

 

Its a 1500mah battery thats charging up to 1400mah which is acceptable.

 

I did however remove the fuse and the ROF upped a little.

Edited February 6, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n

[Adamr85]

Thanks for the advice, Im going to put a new spring and piston in. I fail to see the importance of a new spring guide and I am assuming replacing the shims is easier than I am making it. Either way incase you didn't already know Airsplat has offered the worst support of any store I have ever purchase from. support being responding to my emails for an RMA request.

[Domz]

Did you break yours using a "normal" 8.4v battery, or something a little more powerful? I'm thinking of putting a normal 8.4 in mine.

 

 

Yep my gearbox went with a "normal" 8.4v battery. Sucks , but it'll teach me to be so trigger happy! But Im getting the spacer kit and new piston hopefully, hopup, try to fix semi problem, tightbore barrel maybe.

But I know someone who has it and it runs on a normal 8.4, its just luck of the draw it seems.

 

7.4 lipos sound like a good idea, haven't bought into lipos yet... Exploding and having to buy a new charger, hmm.

 

But yeah I think with a smootly running gearbox and stock spring a 8.4 normal or 7.4 lipo should be fine... People all seem to want crazily high RoFs...

Edited February 7, 2008 by Domz