Panoptes Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Generally, I'm not. I'm not going to single any specific retailers out (although I really should). However, I'm getting pretty fed-up with spending a great deal of time researching what I want, finding out where products are in the UK (if at all... ), placing an order, sending the payment and only then to find out (a day or two later - when they can be bothered to email) that the item(s) aren't in stock. It's not only 'the big five', as I call them, over the past two weeks, I've placed several not unsubstantial orders with well-known suppliers tactical kit only to be badly let down - losing them hundreds of pounds worth of business and potentially much more in future. I dare say the US doesn't generally have this level of disatisfaction as their entire retail system customer-oriented, rather than "yeah, we'll get the kit out to you whenever..." I appreciate that most airsoft retailers are 'hobbyists' who've made a living out of selling airsoft stuff to fellow enthusiasts but if they were competing against regular online retailers (who know what they're doing), they'd be out of business pretty damn sharpish. It's just as well they have a captive, niche market. Come on UK Airsoft Retail - get a grip! So, what irks you about the state of UK airsoft retail? Link to post Share on other sites
Samm Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Is there something stopping you from ringing up and checking to be sure? Would be a good way to beat that aggro you've got. Sounds like you've had quite a case of bad luck, no need for the generalisations though. I trust you haven't tried running a website with such varying types of stock and quantities. Link to post Share on other sites
mr eagle Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I find most of the UK retailers to be very good, i buy/place most of my orders in person or over the phone so i instanltly know if they are instock but when i have used the net i have had phone calls or emails within an hour or so if a product is out of stock. Think you have just had a run of bad luck pal, and if you have been screwed over you could tell us who is doing it so people can see what retailer deserve our hard earned money. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I dunno...I know of a midlands based retailer which always seems to have very low stock levels even on basic consumables, whenever anyone from my site goes there. I have had problems with several retailers as regards stock levels...thats the kind of thing that drove me to buy abroad, which is like a horn of cornucopia by comparison. Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Is there something stopping you from ringing up and checking to be sure? I'm not sure they'd appreciate a call at 03:30 in the am! I work odd hours... Besides, that's not the point - I shouldn't have to phone them up - if the item is offered for sale it should be in stock. I trust you haven't tried running a website with such varying types of stock and quantities. It's not rocket science to run a stock database that updates the quantities showing on a website automatically. Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Perhaps not rocket science, but it *IS* more expensive. The profit margins on airsoft businesses are not great, I imagine, given that the consumer base isn't very large and a lot of business goes overseas to Hong Kong and the USA (although admittedly, much of that is probably things that UK retailers don't offer) Given the current state of the economy, I wouldn't be surprised to see airsoft retailers in the UK going to the wall. Maybe now is the time to support them if you want them to still be there in the future? In general, however, I've bought nothing but consumables from UK retailers for many years. In fact.... Pretty much any significant airsoft purchase I've ever made has been from overseas, usually because the items I want to buy are not available in the UK. Perhaps if UK retailers offered better product ranges and more stock, then they'd make more sales? I know I'd sooner deal with someone in my own country than someone on the other side of the world, especially if there is a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yup, I do try to support UK retailers where possible but product range and stock holdings is dire, in comparison to elsewhere. I'm sure it'll improve over time. I've recently dealt with two US sites and although my order was relatively small, they bent over backwards to find me what I needed and get it to me fast. US customer service is light years ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
RSM Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Quite simply the lack of small parts and variety across the board or carrying certain brand name parts that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole (Systema springs). Come to think of it, thats exactly why placed a big order for spares from two overseas retailers this time last year because I could get exactly what I wanted, more of it and cheaper than buying domestically which would have had me substituting parts and paying more postage costs from several suppliers Link to post Share on other sites
mikogel Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Im sorry but not to sound mean as im staying over in canada do you know how impossible it is to get a gun it costs 300 to 400 pounds for one thats metal, and their are only about 4-6 online stores. when I'm in england I can find a airsoft store and see what they have instock just look around and you can probably find one around you and then no fussing with online stores that you say are really bad (not to say they are not but i haven't had any bad experinces) also you have to realize that people have jobs and families they can't tend to your needs only. Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 ...also you have to realize that people have jobs and families they can't tend to your needs only.Jeez, I'm not expecting them to tend to my needs only - where did I say that? The nearest decent store is about 50 miles away from me... but I'll bet they don't take PayPal?... Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I see you are obsessed with PayPal, let me list the main reasons i suspect most retailers won't accept it. 1 - PayPal does not allow payments for guns, real, airgun, RIF or IF (obviously people do use it for that for personal sales and such) and if PayPal suspect that a business is using the account for this they will suspend it. When PayPal suspends accounts they freeze the money in them too and any transfers that have not completed, this could lead to them loosing a fair amount of cash easily. 2 - If a retailer already has a payment system set up it does not always make sense to set one up, particually as the funds do not go straight to the bank account with PayPal. 3 - PayPal are rubbish with handling claims, sellers tend to loose out on money a lot as a result so again, not so good from the retailers point of view. EDIT : 4 - PayPal are owned by GreedBay, so on basis of principle a sellers (not limited to airsoft) would avoid PayPal as a payment system. I don't mind UK stores myself, i've not had much trouble with them over the years so i can't really grumble much. Problem is now the VCRA has cut off a section of the market for UK retailers, and the defence does not cover collectors who would be interested in more unusual guns and parts so the range will never be that great over here. The upside is most sites are reporting more players since the VCRA came into effect so there is a chance the market might grow enough for retailers to be able to expand their ranges. Link to post Share on other sites
Spedz Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Problem is now the VCRA has cut off a section of the market for UK retailers, and the defence does not cover collectors who would be interested in more unusual guns and parts so the range will never be that great over here. The upside is most sites are reporting more players since the VCRA came into effect so there is a chance the market might grow enough for retailers to be able to expand their ranges. Ahh but the flip side on that one is that due to the goverments meddling the circumstance the VCRA has brought us, it is possible to argue that it has recreated from what was a wide and varid products being purchased, to a more set rigid market and thusly destroying the original 'spirit' of Airsoft. Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I see you are obsessed with PayPal Hardly obsessed. 1 - PayPal does not allow payments for guns, real, airgun, RIF or IF It's in their T&Cs but they don't rigidly enforce it. Otherwise, half of the Asian retailers would probably have folded by now. 2 - If a retailer already has a payment system set up it does not always make sense to set one up, particually as the funds do not go straight to the bank account with PayPal. Bizarre, mine do. 3 - PayPal are rubbish with handling claims, sellers tend to loose out on money a lot as a result so again, not so good from the retailers point of view. I must inform Harrods, Boots, Sony Ericsson, Ladbrokes and dozens of other big names who accept PayPal. Anyway, this is a whole different subject. Problem is now the VCRA has cut off a section of the market for UK retailers, and the defence does not cover collectors who would be interested in more unusual guns and parts so the range will never be that great over here. I agree with you there - that's a good point. Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Im sorry but not to sound mean as im staying over in canada do you know how impossible it is to get a gun it costs 300 to 400 pounds for one thats metal, and their are only about 4-6 online stores. when I'm in england I can find a airsoft store and see what they have instock just look around and you can probably find one around you and then no fussing with online stores that you say are really bad (not to say they are not but i haven't had any bad experinces) also you have to realize that people have jobs and families they can't tend to your needs only. Isn't airsoft illegal in Canada? I'm in Manchester - where's the nearest airsoft shop that I can walk into and "browse" around?? It's not like there's one on every high street... And how does being able to go into the shop alter the fact that they don't stock what you might want to buy? Link to post Share on other sites
muckymick Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I buy lots of consumable stock for the site i run and their is very few uk retailer's i would buy from simply because of the bizaire way they run their business even the one retailer that i buy from has now come up with a stange set of rules as to the amount of bb's that i have to buy ,which is stange as i could go elsewere and buy the same amount for the same price and not have to buy as many to by classed as trade account ,Another well known online retailer would not tell me over the phone if he had stock of some item's until i had ordered and paid for them online as he said "if it is on the website then we sell it" which was not what i asked him i wanted to know if he had it in stock and he got very stropy when i pushed him for a clear answer I would love to be able to buy all my airsoft stuff from uk retailers but thier stock is very limited ,they don't stock much other than the bare minimum and customer service is a complete burden to some retailer's If i make an order in my free time after work which most retailer's are closed so i can't phone them and ask if they have stock the very least i would expect is an email telling me it is instock and dispatch or it is out of stock and would i like a refund after all if retailer's in hong kong on the other side of the planet can do this i don't under stand how uk retailer can't Link to post Share on other sites
WYATT666 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 i only buy in the UK after custom chargers and waiting you havent saved much i have used in the past 3 well know companies and only been MAJORLY dissappointed by the service from one so much somethat i will never buy from them again and lost of people who i skirmish with wont use em either now, the 2 best ones i have dealt with and never had stock issues or problems with have been Zero one and firesupport never ever had any problems with them. the one i should name and shame but i wont mainly because if you wanna know pm me, but having sent a rif back on warranty for a fixing after getting the email to call up as they had done EXTRA work i hadnt asked them to and with NO COMMUNICATION that they would be doing that and then charging me extra for it, then spending money trying to call and email them to get no responce for a week, only to get in contact with them and have them (well the person) be arrogant, unfriendly and aggresive and say that they wont be answering emails because its xmas and they are busy when 80% of the business appears to be online strikes me as bad practise and poor customer care. if they are sooo busy why dont they take on some seasonal staff or have the staff to deal with orders and comms to the customer, i for one was dissappointed by this company and i am not the only person that has had this happen. Link to post Share on other sites
thewallhitme Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 cost. namely ammo and pyros. at the moment we normally make a large order every couple of months for a dozen 5000rnd bags. £6.99 each. thats a hell of a lot of money for some round balls of plastic. anyone know how much a bag of 5000 would cost to manufacture? it wouldent suprise me if it was under a quid. but meh, guess they have to make a living also. ive only occasionally ordered something and its been out of stock, but my favourite site at the moment normally has an equivelant item which they can swap it for, and they always phone to say whats happening. thank you zero one. Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yet there are people out there who don't have a good thing to say about Zero One. (I'm not one of them, by the way, nothing but good experience with them) I guess it's down to personal experience of a given retailer. Vote with your feet and your wallet, it's all you can do. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ammo is one of the few things I *would* buy from the UK (the other being small parts). Think not about the cost to make them, but the cost to ship them. It doesnt take many bottles/bags of BBs to start adding up to a very heavy shipment. Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I would only order BBs, etc, from overseas as part of an order I was already putting in, or if the specific ammo I wanted wasn't available at a UK supplier and no substitute would be acceptable. But one BB is much the same as another, really... Link to post Share on other sites
Smiffy1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I in general find that the major big retailer offer a good range. But like whats been mentioned before, items being out of stock when you come to make an online purchase. Its really not that hard to like your webstore front up to your stores inventory and it makes life so much easier for your perspective customers. As a general rule of thumb, I make all my airsoft purchases within the UK, *suitcase* happens if I have to pay a little more, but its a damn sight easier to resolve any promblems that might occur. Of them items ive purchased from abroad (Canada and the US (solely kit)) Ive had no problems and find their customer service so much better. Although I wouldn't say customer service is bad in the UK, its just not quite the same as whats expect in the US and Canada Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've only ever had one problem when ordering from HK, and that was due to the retailer not understanding the requirements of the VCRA after it had just come in. It was finally resolved when I phoned the retailer, after numerous emails didn't achieve the desired result. Obviously, if the retailer had been in the UK, phoning them would have been a lot easier and less expensive (for my employer's company! ), but on the other hand, since the UK retailers didn't have the items I was trying to buy, it wasn't an option. Link to post Share on other sites
Smiffy1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I totally understand why people buy from abroad, specially if its an item you cant get here. Maybe Im just simple and easily pleased Also having understanding employers who dont mind you calling HK does help no end Link to post Share on other sites
Hedganian Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Understanding? Heh - what they don't know what hurt them. I figure since they don't bother to give out pay rises to anyone, they can afford to provide a few little "perks" Link to post Share on other sites
Smiffy1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Sounds perfectly fair to me. Its like using the company mobile to call x airsoft retailer to check they have something in stock, and then using company vehicle to get there seeing as its only 10 miles from where you job that day was Link to post Share on other sites
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