Gor Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 (disclaimer, not sure which year this relates too, but either way, my point stands) I'll just leave that here... ooh..'socialist' healthcare wins again.. But then who am I kidding, it IS socialism! Any respectable 1st world country is at least socialist-esq. It's the only way to have a society/culture/community that looks after itself as a group. Not a loose confederation of warring individuals who are just as likely to shoot each other with assault weapons as have a beer. See Europe. EDIT: But alas, I feel this bill just didn't go far enough, but hey, it's a - start right? Link to post Share on other sites
Cyber Soldier Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Conservatives harp on about family family = foundation level socialism Parents share what they have with the child because the child lacks the means to supply themself with life essensials. This is no different. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 If it's not the government responsibility why are they the only ones stepping up to provide it? Who or what is this mythical entity thats going to provide healthcare and why are they so bad at it in the US? That whole line from Colosseum is such a bunch of poorly thought out ######. The problem is... the government isn't taking responsibility. It's making us buy health insurance. It's forcing us to give our money to private enterprise. This isn't like a car, where if you don't want to pay for insurance, you don't have to drive your car on public roads. That's a bit like the government telling you that you have to give your old clothes to the Salvation Army. Only the Salvation Army is a non-profit! Link to post Share on other sites
Smitty619 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 uh, so whose responsibility is it? Sesame Street? Oprah? Here's an idea: It is YOUR responsibility! How about that!?! Its called PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. What a concept... This bill is utterly retarded. As are the folks who voted for it. The federal government cannot force people to purchase something from a private company. This is completely contrary to any semblance of freedom. The Attorney Generals from many states are preparing to sue the feds over this bill. That will be interesting to watch. Its not over by any stretch of the imagination. I cannot wait until mid term elections. Its gonna be good! Link to post Share on other sites
DarkMM Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Conservatives harp on about family family = foundation level socialism Parents share what they have with the child because the child lacks the means to supply themself with life essensials. This is no different. Actually not quite, you also have the possibility of the development of amoral familism, which is quite common in various areas too, too but that a whole other discussion Link to post Share on other sites
Connery Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Well at least you're being level-headed about it... The way that this bill is doesn't give us much choice in the matter. I am more than willing to help those who can't help themselves, but not those who are out to exploit the system. The way this bill is written puts them all in the same boat, so I want to help some of them, but because of how it is, I'm forced to help all of them, even the ones who don't deserve it. Parents share what they have with the child to a certain point. Once the child gains the means to supply themselves with life essentials, the parents slowly cut off those life essentials and allow the children to fend for themselves. It's called growing up. Some parents allow their children to grow up younger than others. Using this analogy, our government has been getting younger for years. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Is it just me or does it seem a lot of US members here are opposed to this bill, while most non-US members are for the bill? Link to post Share on other sites
Seraphim989 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 But the point being made is that FAR more of those who need it are the ones who AREN'T trying to cheat the system. And why should a small minority ruin the lives of all those others who need help? Link to post Share on other sites
Cyber Soldier Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 But the point being made is that FAR more of those who need it are the ones who AREN'T trying to cheat the system. And why should a small minority ruin the lives of all those others who need help? Sounds like any government to me Typo Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 You know, I think everyone on Arnie's should just colonize an island somewhere. That way everyone would be happy. I think. XD Link to post Share on other sites
Connery Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Because the way this system is going, we're enabling those who are cheating the system to cheat it further. I really don't like stereotyping, but there are so many families that I see daily on my drive to work that I can tell are just exploiting our local welfare system, living in low-income housing with literally 6 children with the mother pregnant with another, and the only person that works is some random cousin that doesn't even have to share the money because the family is making enough money monthly just by having all these children. The way this system works is that for every child you have, the state government pays you money monthly. Meanwhile, our state government has no money to spend on the things we desperately need, such as infrastructure. Hell, even our State Tax Returns are being withheld until the Summer. The simple truth is, and getting back on point, there are far more people that're exploiting the system than you think. Link to post Share on other sites
Victory Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 You know, I think everyone on Arnie's should just colonize an island somewhere. That way everyone would be happy. I think. XD It wouldn't last a week. Srsly. -Vic Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 That's what the airsoft is for - we just blast each other until tensions are resolved. Link to post Share on other sites
sadman Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Is it just me or does it seem a lot of US members here are opposed to this bill, while most non-US members are for the bill? Heh, yeah. That is pretty funny how outside folks are trying to convince us that this bill is what we want. I am for a health care reform, but not the way this bill is written. And, that's all the further I'll get into this topic. +1 for an airsoft island Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Here's an idea: It is YOUR responsibility! How about that!?! Its called PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. What a concept... This bill is utterly retarded. As are the folks who voted for it. The federal government cannot force people to purchase something from a private company. This is completely contrary to any semblance of freedom. The Attorney Generals from many states are preparing to sue the feds over this bill. That will be interesting to watch. Its not over by any stretch of the imagination. I cannot wait until mid term elections. Its gonna be good! Right. You are suggesting that the 32 million people who cannot get health insurance from the horrendously corrupt HMOs, seek out their own healthcare...HOW? Set up their own hospitals? The basic care for the poor you all seem to think exists just doesn't, because it's reactive emergency treatment, not preventative. Does personal accountability stretch to someone putting out their own house fire, because they can't afford a private fire service to do it for them? Government has to take control of certain roles in society for very good reasons, mostly to do with not everyone being able to perform surgery upon themselves or wage war or arrest felons by themselves. So, let me also get this straight...the federal government (or state legislature) doesn't insist that to drive a car on public roads, you have to have insurance? You can drive around happily without insurance, and you won't be penalised if discovered? Are businesses allowed to carry out public works without having 3rd party liability insurance? Some real joined-up thinking going on here. Link to post Share on other sites
Seraphim989 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 *stuff* How do you know? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Link to post Share on other sites
Desolation mkII Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I love Arnies. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I rofl'ed regarding the tea party and 4chan LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Wow, lots of stereo type remarks, going on here. I'm happy for the 32 million people, though, if this doesn't work out, they will go back to having nothing (As in health care), doesn't that make anyone feel bad that you want it to fail (As in the poeple who don't want it)? I suppose thats a very quick generalising view of the situation, and maybe also something that the media would come up with but, it is also a pause for thought. How can anyone say, that a woman who has 3 or so children doesn't have a back problem (And that her husband died due to cancer etc) and because of said back problem can not work due to not being able to afford the treatment/operation. But now that it is free, they'll be able to get the operation and go back to work. Just something to think about. Edit:- Have to admit though, Tea doesn't taste as nice as Coffee, without milk. Link to post Share on other sites
Agent47 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 One apparently convincing argument heard in my med school class touted by our chapter of Physicians for Human Rights was that healthcare reform can be used to make US companies more competitive in the global economy by way of securing more workers... then again, I'm not that great at economics, so I really can't give a qualified answer/opinion on this matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Connery Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 How do you know? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? A family of <racial slang removed> with 6 children leaving a low-income housing development that you cannot live in if you make more than a certain amount of income a month through work related income driving a Cadillac Escalade with a parking permit for said low-income housing that can barely support their combined weight nearly causing an accident because they tried to get onto the highway before that car that had the right of way passed the driveway? And you want to tell me that they're not cheating the system? But hey, what do I know, I work for a living, so I can't afford to have any children without going to child welfare, I can only afford a 21 year old car, and I need to be careful when I'm on the road because I wouldn't be able to pay for any body damages to my car that occur that are my fault. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 How often do you see that though? And aren't there people just like that in other countries with social/govt-provided healthcare? Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Is it just me or does it seem a lot of US members here are opposed to this bill, while most non-US members are for the bill? Everyone loves to spend the money of other people. But now that it is free, they'll be able to get the operation and go back to work. Just something to think about. Uh... but it's not free. They still have to have health insurance. Only now, if they don't have life insurance, they are committing a crime. How often do you see that though? All the time. Nearly everyone at the trailer park next to my apartment has a brand new pick-up truck. You walk inside and they have every gaming console devised by man, DishTV, massive HDTVs, and rooms decorated wall-to-wall in shiny NASCAR memorabilia. Link to post Share on other sites
davedawg123 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Mandatory insurance? Oxymoron? lol. When you spread the wealth, everybody wins! Forget about trying to improve yourself, just climb on the backs of others. Ride that donkey, yeehaw! Side note, cost saving measure as proposed from ST:TNG. Link to post Share on other sites
Seraphim989 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 *more stuff* Quite frankly, I think its far more likely that you only notice those people more because they have those fancy cars. Yes, there are people that cheat the system, and it makes me mad as hell, but Im not going to let my anger spill over to all of the millions of other people who live in silent poverty Link to post Share on other sites
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