WE brass Vs WE OB Vs King Arms

[AG1212]

Ive decided to move into GBB territory for the first time, so far ive eliminated WA 'cause I want a rifle that works out of the box and I want it to be realistic in terms of trades and finish so thats KJW out as well.

 

What is the difference between OB and brass tube style, apart from the obvious? I heard OB is getting V hop up units? other wise is the old system more reliable and how does the felt recoil compare ( from what people cant tell so far)? And for the KA, is it the WA style system or is it improved? and does it compare to WE in terms of reliability? I tried to find info on it but nada

 

I need it to run at 1j so thats a factor as well, I do intend to skirmish with it but its also going to be more of a recreational gun, so fun of shooting is a factor!

 

Sorry for all the questions but I couldn't find any reliable answers, thanks for the help!

[L4byr1nth]

Oh god, here we go.

 

I'd go for WE. I've had two now (M16A3, SCAR-L CQC), and both have performed admirably - so much so I don't own any AEG's anymore.

 

What I will say is this - Don't expect it to be anything like using an AEG.

 

These guns are like any specialised form of gun in airsoft - they have very pronounced strengths and weaknesses, and you have to play to the gun; whereas with an AEG (which is a good all-rounder), you can play how you like.

 

You are going to have jams, malfunctions, FPS fluctuations, limited ammo capacity, and inevitably some frustration. Most problems can be sorted out with some good silicone lube, but why I'd go for the WE over the KA is that the WE guns have a lot of aftermarket support out; I have no idea if this is true or not of the KA.

 

I enjoy tinkering with gas guns - always have. GBBR's were a no-brainer switch for me, and I've learnt to play on semi, conserve my ammunition/gas, etc. If you need to run it at 1J, get an RA Tech NPAS and just dial 1J in, no problems.

 

Ben.

[D-JHapyMeal]

derp

 

 

Brass tube vs open bolt is just looks.

All that really is different, is the brass tube (not) being there.

Although I dont have any personal experience with the difference, a simple few clicks on youtube about the WE KAC PWD Open Bolt System, reveal this:

"...we want to offer a choice for the players out there, okay? If you like a more realistic open bolt system, we can do it, okay?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twJPHw_swzE

Im sure the guns will perform not too differently.

AND, there will be open bolt (conversion kits) for all their platforms, so the guy said at the end.

And converting wont be much harder than installing a NPAS kit in your GBB.

 

Too bad I dont know anything about the KingArms M4 GBB.

But all in all, WE is the way to go so far. Theire improving quite a lot and they bring out later versions of their M4's, so I guess that if enough people start complaining about issues out of the box, WE will release a later version.

[SilentTank]

skip all of the above mentioned and grap a G&P woc. Their new super affordable line at shops like ehobby is very affordable and perform amazingly.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

skip all of the above mentioned and grap a G&P woc. Their new super affordable line at shops like ehobby is very affordable and perform amazingly.

 

I concur with this sentiment, now that my used WOC is finally up and running

 

I do suggest modifying a real AR-15 charging handle to work (about 10 minutes with a file really) to save yourself headache of broken charging handles though... I broke TWO G&P charging handles at the same places, in the latches and the horn at the end in the same shot both times... major fail

[L4byr1nth]

Lol @ the price of G&P WOC's.

 

Also, a WE with an OBK will have a lower FPS range than one without.

 

Ben.

[hitmanNo2]

The King Arms are too new really to give any real facts about them. As above, go with a G&P WOC. Its based on the standard of GBBR systems - WA, but beefed up for people to run them outside of the restrictions of Japan. There are so many stock variations in model and a ridiculous amount of aftermarket support from loads of manufactures.

 

As for WE, they seem a bit hit and miss. I don't doubt there are some good ones out there that perform nicely as I'm sure Ben can attest to but so many people have problems with them. WE seem focused on bringing out new product lines instead of refining and improving their first release. I could be wrong and they might have fixed all the issues with the M4 but from what I have read, it doesn't seem like it.

 

Lol @ the price of G&P WOC's.

 

Basic WOC M4 on eHobby - $315

Basic WE M4 on eHobby - $335

[SilentTank]

Lol @ the price of G&P WOC's.

 

Also, a WE with an OBK will have a lower FPS range than one without.

 

Ben.

 

m4a1 with colt markings G&P: $388.00

m4a1 WE with markings...and way to high fps: $340.00

 

edit: regarding price comment

Most G&P wocs come with tons of after market body parts you would pay far more for to put on a WE than the WOCs (even their expensive models). Including optics in many cases

[tinydata]

I agree, get a WOC! My current one has three bolt carrier groups of varying durability. I most often run it on duster for reliability. An aluminum bolt keeps ROF high. (sustainable full auto fire at around 280 fps)

 

I recently fired 800 + rounds off in a day of CQB with no stoppages at all and the bolt face still looks pristine!

 

Another reason to go WA-system is the simple economics. The WE mags are something like $45 for a 30 round magazine. G&P makes a superb mag for the same price yet it holds 50! And those new King Arms mags are supposed to be even more affordable with the same quality. You get much more bang for your buck with WA-system rifles. Also, aftermarket support for the WOC blows away anything the WE has available. Externals, internals, you name it.

[frogfish]

Having owned a WOC that I dropped over $1k into, tinkered with for months and never got to shoot decently, I would say that is not a viable skirmish choice. Nor is any other WA system clone (KA falls in this category). WOCs look very pretty and are excellent wall hangers or tinker toys. Parts are common, and you can throw money into it until you get ###### off at it.

 

Having owned a WE for a month and noticing the same problems and more than what my WOC had, that is not a viable skirmish option, especially as aftermarket parts are not widely available. Mags were a joke, they leaked, the had very limited capacity (real cap in airsoft is a joke, lets see how the military would do with semi auto muskets) and no alternatives to the WE brand mags.

 

there are two options if you are going to get a GBB for skirmishing, KJW M4 or a DTG. The downside to both of those is the KJWs are not very common and neither are mags, but aftermarket parts aren't needed, the DTGs are expensive ($1200) but you can use $3 AEG mags in it, where as mags alone for a WOC can set you back $300-$600 for a combat load.

[Horsem4n]

since too few people still know, there is one more big difference to the WE OB models versus the brass tube models and AG1212 is right, they use a hop up that is akin to the marui hi-capa, in other words a VSR-10 V hop.

 

thats all i can really say about them though.

[SilentTank]

Having owned a WOC that I dropped over $1k into, tinkered with for months and never got to shoot decently, I would say that is not a viable skirmish choice. Nor is any other WA system clone (KA falls in this category). WOCs look very pretty and are excellent wall hangers or tinker toys. Parts are common, and you can throw money into it until you get ###### off at it.

 

Having owned a WE for a month and noticing the same problems and more than what my WOC had, that is not a viable skirmish option, especially as aftermarket parts are not widely available. Mags were a joke, they leaked, the had very limited capacity (real cap in airsoft is a joke, lets see how the military would do with semi auto muskets) and no alternatives to the WE brand mags.

 

there are two options if you are going to get a GBB for skirmishing, KJW M4 or a DTG. The downside to both of those is the KJWs are not very common and neither are mags, but aftermarket parts aren't needed, the DTGs are expensive ($1200) but you can use $3 AEG mags in it, where as mags alone for a WOC can set you back $300-$600 for a combat load.

 

wow sad story man, what on earth happened to your woc? I have dumped about that much but mostly on cosmetics eg scope rail longer barrel and a few internals ratech npas, a 509 6.01 inner barrel and an aluminum bolt carrier. What did you do internally that cost that much? You could have bought a whole trigger group bolt carrier and inner barrel and hop up for way less than 1k...

[frogfish]

Multiples of parts, and buying RA tech stuff ain't cheap, I also cracked a receiver.... I was very rough on it.

[renegadecow]

Mags were a joke, they leaked, the had very limited capacity (real cap in airsoft is a joke, lets see how the military would do with semi auto muskets) and no alternatives to the WE brand mags.

While it's true that no other manufacturer makes mags for WE, they have kept on improving on theirs. The last mag I bought was around 3 weeks ago and it's a lot better at holding gas than the ones I got a year ago (meaning it doesn't leak). Not sure what you're getting at real caps for. All you have to do is ease up on the hose patrol and learn to aim as well as pick out targets carefully, all assuming your rifle shoots true to begin with.

 

That said, a lot of WE users with the old brass tube system had problems with hop-up and messed up their accuracy. The new "open bolt" system has a TM GBB/VSR hop-up in place and is loads better from the looks of it and as backed up by the newer reviews.

 

I skirmish quite regularly with my Socom Gear/WE against AEGs on hi-caps. Despite the obvious disadvantage in not having a bajillion rounds at my disposal, I'm still tagging just as many kills as if I'd had an AEG. More fun too.

 

@Tinydata:

WE mags should cost $35, not $45. Unless you're talking about the CO2 mags.

[SilentTank]

Multiples of parts, and buying RA tech stuff ain't cheap, I also cracked a receiver.... I was very rough on it.

 

lol what did you beat it with a hammer? or use it to hammer someone? haha ouch bummer! though to be fair its all the same as G&P aeg bodies (metal injected) so whatever you did to your GBB would have also cracked any aeg

[frogfish]

Not sure what you're getting at real caps for. All you have to do is ease up on the hose patrol and learn to aim as well as pick out targets carefully, all assuming your rifle shoots true to begin with.

 

 

When BBs fly true and people call their hits all the time then real caps may be viable. I actually don't use full auto on any of my replicas unless it's the only setting I have (Asahi Bushmaster and M60 are FA only) and even when sighted in at a decent range I miss, or people aren't calling it when I hit them. When I'm trying to compete with people who do BB hose using a real cap becomes a bit of a joke, if everyone were using them then it might work out, but very few people do. I can actually get into a who tirade about the demise of real caps, I used to use them until airsoft got cheaper, I've noticed a lot of kiddies who can now afford airsoft like to turn god mode on.

 

However I will say I never really felt like the 20 rd difference made that big of a deal, but logically 20 rounds through 6 mags ends up being 120 rounds, that's the difference between walking back to reload and staying in the fight.

 

lol what did you beat it with a hammer? or use it to hammer someone? haha ouch bummer! though to be fair its all the same as G&P aeg bodies (metal injected) so whatever you did to your GBB would have also cracked any aeg

 

Nope I was just plinking in my backyard, I heard klack klack klasnap, looked and I had a nice crack from where the front pin hole was on the lower up on the right hand side. Not an area that receives a lot of stress during firing, so I have no clue what did it. I suspect that falling on it, breaking it open every few hours of play to clear a jam or see what's wrong and transitioning from 110 degree heat in direct sunlight to freezing cold from firing might have messed it up pretty bad. That was no big deal though it gave me an excuse to get a nicer receiver, then I got ###### at it traded it and built another from scratch with cheaper parts, got ###### at that one and got a WE SCAR. I now have a KWA MP7 sad part is it's Out of the box shooting as good if not better than the WOC or the WE I owned. That's just my personal opinion though, the person who has my SCAR seems to like it better than their Mp7 that I traded for.

 

 

I did have an UBR on both my WOCs and was going to get one of the strike plates as there were a few people I did want to beat with it.

 

 

Of the two the WOC looked better, but the blowback on the SCAR was much better, not in that it was stronger but in that it was crisp and sounded like a gun firing. With the WOC I could often hear the return spring twang with my ear right on the stock, and the blowback could feel sluggish sometimes. When my WOC shot BBs it shot better than the SCAR, but that may be comparing apples and oranges.

 

After having all of these, and talking with friends who have KJWs, getting the good and the bad, the KJW still seems like the best option for skirmishing with a GIM m16 variant (I loved my GHK but I got rid of it to make my first WOC).

 

On the open bolt hop-up does the PDW have a hi-cappa style hop-up, I thought that was something that was put in the m14 and not the PDW.

[somegirls]

If you want something that works get a KJW!

 

If you want something that looks nice, get a G&P or a KA (with Colt markings).

 

If you want something that doesn't look that good and doesn't perform that well, get a WE.

 

According the WE "open bolt" PDW:

Has anyone else noticed that the recoil spring is not a push spring (like on a regular M4) but a pull spring? (like on... nothing else really).

Meaning when the bolt cycles the recoild doens't compress the spring like on a pistol, it actually stretches the recoild spring.

Due to that fact I just can'T imagine that that spring stretches out after a certain amount of shots.

[Horsem4n]

yeah, i have no clue why WE chose that spring system in the OB PDW. its entirely stupid and you need a tool to field strip it.

[renegadecow]

It's probably to address the receiver failure on the older system. A lot of the lowers snapped in half because of an incorrectly installed recoil spring assembly.

[somegirls]

Maybe.

 

But wasn't their big selling point for th OB system "realism" ? To me, fundling that weird spring system in and out with some kind of tool isn't that realistic.

 

My biggest concern though is that this spring system will wear out and cause failure on regular basis. Even the featherweight MP7 bolt carrier has a stronger recoil spring.

[jotohomomoto]

another viable option (though a bit more money) is the ViperTechs. The markings aren't great but the internals are sick. I just have 3 mags so I can't skirmish it yet, but plink'n in the backyard is fun.

I skirmished the SCAR once, and I haven't had any major problems. I don't mind real-cap, but I do need a little more than 30, because, people just aren't used to getting hit with ONE bb...or else they're not calling shots!!!!

[beretta]

For me i would go with the King Arms System, I was passed one a few weeks ago to review in TakeAim and i was really impressed by it. They have probably the best gas effeciency ive seen in the WA platform, and probably across all the popular platforms.

 

They have also taken a leaf from inokatsu's book with the retracting firing pin so you wont find yourself bending valve/firing pin if you insert the magazine without the rifle cocked. The mags are a beefed up version of the WA mags and are leak free so far, really impressed.

 

 

As with all GBB rifles though, they are going to need more care and attention and more often than an aeg. I have owned/repaired/upgraded everything from the WE Scar, PDW, M16, M4 CQB, WA M4 CQBR, G&P M4 etc etc and they all have their pro's and cons. If i were to pick one based on my own experience with them it would have to be the new King Arms, or a closely following G&P. The performance from the king arms is what does it for me. The hopup is functional and works well, unlike a lot of others out there although it takes a little bedding in at first. as said earlier too, it uses the gas effeciently and doesnt suffer much in the way of venting. The finish on it too is very nice and the trades look about as realistic as you get, if maybe a little neat looking.

 

Heres what she looks like naked.

 

 

 

 

 

[jotohomomoto]

For me i would go with the King Arms System, I was passed one a few weeks ago to review in TakeAim and i was really impressed by it. They have probably the best gas effeciency ive seen in the WA platform, and probably across all the popular platforms.

 

They have also taken a leaf from inokatsu's book with the retracting firing pin so you wont find yourself bending valve/firing pin if you insert the magazine without the rifle cocked. The mags are a beefed up version of the WA mags and are leak free so far, really impressed.

 

 

As with all GBB rifles though, they are going to need more care and attention and more often than an aeg. I have owned/repaired/upgraded everything from the WE Scar, PDW, M16, M4 CQB, WA M4 CQBR, G&P M4 etc etc and they all have their pro's and cons. If i were to pick one based on my own experience with them it would have to be the new King Arms, or a closely following G&P. The performance from the king arms is what does it for me. The hopup is functional and works well, unlike a lot of others out there although it takes a little bedding in at first. as said earlier too, it uses the gas effeciently and doesnt suffer much in the way of venting. The finish on it too is very nice and the trades look about as realistic as you get, if maybe a little neat looking.

 

Heres what she looks like naked.

 

 

 

Thanks for that info....I don't know where, but I've heard really good things about the kings arms and your mini-review is just another notch on the belt. decisions decsions (not mine, though, but something to think about...I'm ALWAYS looking )

[somegirls]

I'm [ ] that close to buying one. Also these are fully licensed trademarks on the old King Arms

[frogfish]

I don't mind real-cap, but I do need a little more than 30, because, people just aren't used to getting hit with ONE bb...or else they're not calling shots!!!!

 

This is my biggest problem with real cap... I wish people would just call their hits.

 

Anywho the SCAR I traded you never gave me any issues, I had an earlier gen one that was terrible.