WhiteHawksan Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ah look, a perfect example of precisely the sort of attitude that airsoft is not about. This, ignoring the fact you entirely contradicted yourself obviously. If you were in to.. say, AKs, do you see guys jumping out of the magpul threads and being all 'AKs suck man, you guys are just sheep following along with the mainstream crowd, what you like sucks because it's popular". No? Thought not. Live and let *fruitcage* live, otherwise what's the point. well said. I don't think *fruitcage* of magpul for their rubbish, but I don't need to attack every thread the dares to mention to the word magpul to tell them they're all wrong. I'll never get this, and while I think the arcing .50 shot was pretty sweet, I thought I'd at least attempt to slightly re-rail it ^^ Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 As my Mum would say, 'if Magpul jumped off a bridge would you jump off too?' HALO jump ? Link to post Share on other sites
Kenworth W900 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 No bungie jump. Hurtle towards the target, use tactical Magpul non-slip baseball bat to club the guards, then spring back away from danger. Its been like nearly 3 months since I had a rant about Magpul - thats pretty restrained for me . Sometimes I just have to let out my frustration over certain companies that want to enslave us - the worst example being Tescos ofcourse, don't even get me started. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 As a matter of fact, just noticed the 2011 catalogue is online now. For those of you, who for some crazy reason are on an airsoft forum but also by chance have a strange and unusual interest in high quality firearms accessories: http://www.magpul.com/downloadcatalog.html Link to post Share on other sites
Apocalypsemeow Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Just because Magpul does it, don't make it right. As my Mum would say, 'if Magpul jumped off a bridge would you jump off too?' Some of you guys seriously need to stop getting whipped so badly by this COMPANY, thats right company, NOT God. I bet theres very little these videos could tell me that I couldn't figure out for myself. With all that said, the passive side in me would just like to add that whatever you guys fancy forking money out for is entirely up to you. Wow who *suitcase* in your cereal this morning? I'm pretty sure the Magpul way to zero your irons is the same as everyone else's, there's not many different ways to get them zeroed. Was just pointing out it actually has a bit of useful information that can be learned, ignoring all the crazy stuff I'll never need but is just cool to watch. Thanks for assuming I worship them as Gods though, I was unaware I actually had any formal religious beliefs Anyways, everyone works for their money and can spend it on what they like and considering we all spend it on toy guns I think it's a bit worthless to try and belittle people because they choose to buy things from a company that you dislike. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 The handgun and carbine episodes are fantastic, no matter what's the brand behind, the FOOTAGE is awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 The handgun and carbine episodes are fantastic, no matter what's the brand behind, the FOOTAGE is awesome. Yeah i admit the first videos were great but this latest trend of making a DVD series of every freaking gun category is getting a bit ridiculous .... What's next .. The Art of the Tactical Howitzer ? Link to post Share on other sites
White_Rabbit Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 nah next up has to be The Art Of The Tactical Beard Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yeah i admit the first videos were great but this latest trend of making a DVD series of every freaking gun category is getting a bit ridiculous .... What's next .. The Art of the Tactical Howitzer ? The art of the cerbatana! Link to post Share on other sites
Kenworth W900 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Wow who *suitcase* in your cereal this morning? Magpul Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Yeah i admit the first videos were great but this latest trend of making a DVD series of every freaking gun category is getting a bit ridiculous .... What's next .. The Art of the Tactical Howitzer ? how about "the art of the tactical nuke" in al seriousness i don't see where al the hate comes from, as long as people want to watch their video's, let them make videos i find them rather entertaining Link to post Share on other sites
ultimentra Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Wheres the blooper reel already? i wanna see it. Link to post Share on other sites
Extraordinaire Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 So dramatic and lovely. I can has beard? Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 What I don't think a lot of people understand is who this material is targeted at. It's certainly not airsofters. And while I shoot 10 times more RS than I do airsoft nowadays and have attended many of their classes, I'm also not the primary demographic for these products. Although many of their DVDs do have content for the civilian shooter/sportsman, the primary demographic for many of these products, especially DVDs such as the aerial platform set, is the Military and Law Enforcement community. Even the pistol, carbine and shotgun dvds are biased towards the LE and MIL market. The reason for this is that, beyond the fact that Travis, Chris, Steve and many of the other instructors have MIL and LE backgrounds and it's therefore easier for them to relate what they teach based on their backgrounds to an audience with similar backgrounds, but having spoken to these guys during several classes now, they feel strongly that there is an absolute need for military and LE doctrine to change. There is only so much that traditional doctrine will teach you. They've learned for themselves from experience and through talking with others that doctrine is written for the lowest common denominator, and when it comes to the dynamic firefight, doctrine can get you killed. It is their hope that dynamic training will slowly trickle into the lower ranks and someday be a part of MIL and LE doctrine. They also realize that the average LEO and MIL person out there gets a horribly inadequate amount of training. Furthermore, LE departments are also downsizing their training budgets forcing many to either go without additional training beyond what they received during the academy/basic training, or if the individual can afford it, pay for training out of their own pocket. Most can't afford it. And while a DVD set is in no way a substitute for an in person, on site, 3-4 day course, there is certainly a lot of golden nuggets that can be gleamed from the material that can help you with your RS shooting. I studied the heck out of the DVDs before taking the actual courses myself. And the benefits of learning from the DVDs were measurable in how I shot, figured out what I was doing wrong, fixed it, and improved. Though the improvements from the DVDs weren't as dramatic as when I later took the classes, improvements were made and I got my money's worth. There is value in all these DVDs, you just got to figure out what parts of it works for you and use it to your advantage. A classic example would be switching shoulders when approaching a corner in which you need to shoot from your reaction side, or shooting from behind cover standing or kneeling. Knowing which leg to drop when leaning, how to lean out, and to get a good sight picture before you pop out. These are all learning points that can apply to airsofters and how we play the game as they teach you to expose a minimal amount of your body to the OPFOR and quicker ways to engage the target. Other examples, like reloading in your workspace apply too ... both on the real and airsoft battlefields, you want to keep your eyes ahead where possible threats may present themselves, and not looking down, staring at the ground while you reload. Regarding the comments that Aerial Platforms and Precision Rifle DVDs are ludicrous/pointless, I would simply state this: think about who they're targeting these specific DVDs to. It's not me. It may not be you. It's certainly not the average civilian shooter (though possibly hunters/and marksmen for the precision rifle dvd). It's mostly designed for LE and MIL. If you're not interested in it, don't buy it. No one's forcing you to. But some are interested in it (I know I am just for education's sake), and some, genuinely can/do use these techniques for their everyday job (e.g. LE snipers etc). So pointless? For you and the majority of the world, maybe. But not for all. As for those who simply hate Magpul and Magpul Dynamics, well that's your prerogative. Heck, Larry Vickers isn't a fan of them either so you're in good company I suppose. But the awesome thing about free will is this: if you don't like something, ignore it. If someone else finds value in it, does that really affect you? No, it doesn't. If you think you can do better or see errors in what is demonstrated by these people, prove it. When I go to their classes, they don't say it's their way or the highway. They say, "this is what we do. Try it. If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't we'll work with you to figure out what does work for you. If you have a method that's faster/ more efficient, let's see it." In the 11 months between my Carbine 1-2 class and my Carbine 2 class, I noticed Travis stopped using his redi-mag system. When someone asked him about it, he said that he and Chris are constantly working on speed and efficiency, and are always learning and trying to improve. To that end he realized that although he heavily endorsed the redi-mod for a period, he discovered that in the end after a lot of testing, he was generally more efficient without it and ditched it. On another tangent, at the beginning of my Carbine 1-2 class they gave out free AFGs to everyone. They didn't tell people they HAD to use it. They simply suggested that if people were curious, that they try them out and if for any reason it didn't work for them in any way, to take it off immediately. Something else I don't think a lot of people know is how humble these guys are. They're some of the best shooters I've personally seen, and yet if you ask them, they'll tell you they're just ok and there are many others far better than them at shooting. What they feel they're good at is imparting knowledge and helping people become better shooters. Generally, I think a lot of people have formulated in their minds these guys are X, based purely on what they've seen on the DVDs, or just from the popularity that surrounds them. When the truth is, there's a whole lot more to these guys than that. They've certainly earned my respect. Link to post Share on other sites
White_Rabbit Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 well said uscmCorps hats off to you for a great, well written and mature post. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 That was an awfully long wall of text, but I read it all. I keep enjoying what I see on those DVDs and I find them interesting and useful. Link to post Share on other sites
elanaiba Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Excellent post, uscmcorps Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I must say that was well thought out and executed post USCMcorps. Bravo. And I certainly know about the LE training debate, I ahve a couple friends who teach trainign with force on force and use airsoft as one of the primary training means, because as he so mildly puts it. A firefight is a goddamn firefight, it doesn't sit the *fruitcage* there while you go through your drill to shoot him." Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 To that effect too consider the fact that DVDs are what, $40-50 that basically is a pamphlet version of their much more expensive courses....you don't expect I think to learn the same amount of information as you would in the class, but you should be able to pick up something. For what its worth too, Vickers is coming out with his training DVDs as well, and from whats on Youtube for the trailer you can already see some difference in style and technique he uses vs the MD guys. In video training in general, I think as with anything you will only get as much out of it as you are willing to put in after watching it. The most I've got probably was from the MD Handgun stuff and also one of the Practical Shooting DVDs I've watched(I forgot who was the instructor in that one), mainly because I was doing some airsoft IPSC stuff and I actually practiced a lot of it. If anything they make you aware of some of the follies you are doing as a shooter and how to improve from it... Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I took the whole 'workspace' bubble thing in to my job, and in the (unlikely) event that I have to shoot at anyone when I go to afghan, I'll be using it. It just makes sense, and the examples given by Costa in one of the DVDs (carbine 2 I think) really justify the whole concept, because it's not something you get taught in training. A lot of the stuff does work for airsoft as well, again the workspace idea, the shoulder switching, how to move around positions and reload as fast and efficiently as possible, you can take all that stuff in to a skirmish and it does work. Of course a lot of it doesn't apply as well, the whole far-forward grip thing to mitigate recoil is only barely necessary on a GBBR, but that's when you have to engage the grey cells and sort the applicable stuff from everything that's not applicable to you personally. Just because you don't like the cherry on top of your dessert doesn't mean you throw away the whole ice cream, you pick off the cherry and enjoy the rest. Link to post Share on other sites
elanaiba Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Actually I think the "far forward grip/grab as much gun as possible" technique works very well to the point of moving the muzzle from target to target. At least it does for me. One can nitpick as much as he wants, and MD guys can be criticized like everyone else, but in the end it's just 50$ bucks, its something that 95% of the airsofters can learn from, and TBH many of us got into airsoft (as opposed to paintball) partly due to a passion for firearms ... and the dvds deliver. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 If you think you can do better or see errors in what is demonstrated by these people, prove it. There is no need to prove that - anyone can use regular vertical grips the same way as AFGs (if not better, with more options), - extended support hand "high-grip" is for short range sessions/competitions/low stress situations, and it limits FOV badly, - they fail to cover the most important basics of shooting, - most of their DVDs show range drills to no end with little tactical value/priority/survivability, yet they talk about lethal use of firearms, For any experienced airsofter (not to mention those who also shoot RS for years) these are blaringly obvious. As someone put it, these DVDs are just pamphlets, marketing tools for those who have very little training and experience. Costa and Travis are really nice guys? No sh*t, they have to sell to make a living... I'm sure the precision rifle DVD will be fun to watch with some popcorn at hand, but it'll be just a marketing show for Magpul/Surefire/ect products, not a valuable training tool. Link to post Share on other sites
elanaiba Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well, at least not for you But, to be really useful, would you like to point some alternative source of information, better in content but as cheap and easy to obtain? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'll take the word of a force recon marine over an airsofter who occasionally pops down the firing range any day of the week. That and they specifically mention that shooting basics and tactics aren't what the material is about, so saying that they 'fail' to cover it makes as much sense as a chocolate tea pot. Either you've got very selective hearing, or you're just fabricating arguments in the hope that no one will notice. Link to post Share on other sites
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