Wear that face protection!

[FireKnife]

@FireKnife: In that situation a knife kill could be performed - the sniper is close enough to touch the enemy (at least he should be if at risk of being stood on), and so could legitimately call knife kill. Knife kills are a completely different kettle of fish; they cannot be performed at range, and do not require a trigger pull thus are not subject to the usual complaints of the bang kill. In other situations where the enemy is at range but inside their MED, that is why they should have a secondary...at least in my opinion.

 

While a knife kill would seem the best course, we are looking at a site known for itchy trigger fingers and guns jammed on full auto only. If that person moves they risk close range full auto or being fallen or trodden on.

 

While this is a small chance that it will happen and a knife kill would work in other situations you do get those where it is just safer to call out the other person, have them turn and look at you to see a muzzle pointing at them. If they are then stupid enough to start firing without just admitting they should take it then they risk a 500fps shot up close and really can you blame the person? It was not them that intentionally moved into the MED and it was not them that shot first. Sadly sometimes you get stuck in those situations where you just have to hope the other person is intelligent enough to take it. However up here, they are not and you have to watch out for it.

 

As for those that do the so called 'sniper-bang' and dash in, shooting bang as they can't shoot due to MED rules but are the ones that caused the situation then they get lit up, if they complain then you point out to them why they did not stay out of MED and fire. I have had it happen to me, looked to my left and saw a guy with a bolt action at about 15m, while I was readying to suprise his team. He actually bothered to walk back about a further 10m to outside the MED and then fired. Now if it was some play to win person or an idiot I would have got hit at 15m, though due to the person thinking about it, I got hit at 25m and had just long enough to get off my quick ambush on the other element of his team. I think though that like those that go 'I wants a sn1per r1fle' they need to actually learn how to use the thing.

 

'FireKnife'

[Inari]

 

If they are then stupid enough to start firing without just admitting they should take it then they risk a 500fps shot up close and really can you blame the person?

Yes. I can. It is against the rules to shoot within your MED. If you shoot within your MED you are putting people at risk, and cheating/breaking the rules. It is akin to blind firing.

 

Airsoft is a game based on honour, so if you can't follow the basic rules then how can you expect the game to be in any way enjoyable? The rules are there for our own personal safety, as well as to keep games moving. If you want to use a 500fps sniper rifle, then you need to accept that you have minimum engagement distances to comply with, so must carry a secondary if you want to shoot within your MED. If you find yourself within a situation where you need to shoot someone within your MED, and can't draw your secondary and don't want to get lit up, shout hit, stand up and respawn. Alternatively you can attempt to find a way to get the shot on your opponent. Nothing stops you using a stock TM VSR if you want to snipe without MED's - it's up to the individual to decide what way they want to play the game, and accept that their choices can carry more stringent rule sets.

 

For that specific situation that you mentioned, if they are close enough to walk on you, then they're close enough to knife kill - simply reach out, and call 'Knife kill'. It depends on the site rules, obviously, but round my neck of the woods a knife kill is performed by calling knife kill and touching the player gently (i.e. not a vicious grab shouting "KNIFE MUTHA FOOKAH!") - you do not need to have a rubber knife on you to do it. Again, if you don't want to risk getting caught by moving, and fear getting fired upon by unmerciful assailants, then declare yourself hit. It's never worth hurting someone else, or yourself - it's just a game!

[FireKnife]

Yes. I can. It is against the rules to shoot within your MED. If you shoot within your MED you are putting people at risk, and cheating/breaking the rules. It is akin to blind firing.

 

Airsoft is a game based on honour, so if you can't follow the basic rules then how can you expect the game to be in any way enjoyable? The rules are there for our own personal safety, as well as to keep games moving. If you want to use a 500fps sniper rifle, then you need to accept that you have minimum engagement distances to comply with, so must carry a secondary if you want to shoot within your MED. If you find yourself within a situation where you need to shoot someone within your MED, and can't draw your secondary and don't want to get lit up, shout hit, stand up and respawn. Alternatively you can attempt to find a way to get the shot on your opponent. Nothing stops you using a stock TM VSR if you want to snipe without MED's - it's up to the individual to decide what way they want to play the game, and accept that their choices can carry more stringent rule sets.

 

For that specific situation that you mentioned, if they are close enough to walk on you, then they're close enough to knife kill - simply reach out, and call 'Knife kill'. It depends on the site rules, obviously, but round my neck of the woods a knife kill is performed by calling knife kill and touching the player gently (i.e. not a vicious grab shouting "KNIFE MUTHA FOOKAH!") - you do not need to have a rubber knife on you to do it. Again, if you don't want to risk getting caught by moving, and fear getting fired upon by unmerciful assailants, then declare yourself hit. It's never worth hurting someone else, or yourself - it's just a game!

 

I do agree with you but it is a hypothetical and to be honest I think I am too used to the frankly pathetic level of play that you get up here, though sadly for the next few months it is all I have.

 

As for the blaming them, well if someone walks up in front of you, you offer them the hit and they turn around and start wildly shooting (this is including knife kills, like I say it is pathetic up here) hitting you repeatedly what do you think most reactions would be to that? I think it would be a levelled shot in the chest as a response, failing that (again the attitudes here) a fist to the face. This is again just a 'never know' kind of situaton but really if such a thing occurs and someone called from say 2-3m behind me that I was 'hit' I would take it, as you say it is a game and you play it for fun but you, more so nowadays, get those that just can't see it that way and to win is to win, whether you hurt the other person or not.

 

'FireKnife'

[Baddbaz]

Exactly the same sentiments as above . If you can't follow the games rules you shouldn't be using a 500fps gun . My son is 15 and he knows the rules and site regulations and is very adept at using a secondary / knife kill when sniping as he is at adapting to any weopon / rules he is given.

If he can do that at his age I am sure anyone else could .

at the end of the day it is a game of honour we play . If people can't abide by the simple rules maybe they should take up paintball .

The trouble with some sites is bad marshalling and a profit driven game site .

My opinion is that if you find a site that is like this avoid it , eventually the lack of players/ numbers will put them out of business or change their ways .on my main site I play ( rift Airsoft ) failure to take hits or breaking rules will get you sent home or asked never to return .

And the sites bookings are always overbooked , so he opened another site . Which surprise , surprise is always very busy .

If sites give players what they want and Marshall well everyone is happy and the owners make a good living ...

[FireKnife]

My opinion is that if you find a site that is like this avoid it , eventually the lack of players/ numbers will put them out of business or change their ways .

 

Sadly, not possible up here as we are in a 'well if you don't like it you have no other choice so hah' situation. I have asked the council and local land owners about setting up another site and all have said either:

 

No as it will cause noise issues or affect the public votes (council).

No as we are too busy using it for pheasant shooting and horse riding (land owners).

 

So yeah, sadly we don't have that choice, be lucky that you do

 

As for the wearing of face protection, well as I have said that is down to you, if you want to wear less of it (aside from the obligatory eye pro) then that is the risk you take, just hope you play against sensible players.

 

'FireKnife'

[DWZippy]

For those of us reading this through raised eyebrows, what exactly are you trying to say on this page of the threat FK? I think we might be on the same wavelength as me, but I'd appreciate a clarification.

 

What I think you've said, and what I'm replying too.. 

Within your MED you shouldn't even be pointing a 500fps gun at someone [i'm happy to take a shot a couple of meters in, I'm not an MED obsessive but you get my point] because regardless of how safe it is [and it's not safe, as most of the "elite snipers" have slapped zero triggers and all sorts of other fun stuff to make it that much more likely to go off] it's breaking the rules of the game, which is cheating. 

 

As a result, if any sniper tries to bang kill me with his sniper rifle, I'm going to laugh in his face and shoot him. If he decides to /actually/ shoot me, I'll be taking my concerns up with the marshall, because he is very clearly the player in the wrong. 

[FireKnife]

As a result, if any sniper tries to bang kill me with his sniper rifle, I'm going to laugh in his face and shoot him. If he decides to /actually/ shoot me, I'll be taking my concerns up with the marshall, because he is very clearly the player in the wrong. 

 

This is the only thing I would raise as in the said hypothectical the other player can offer them the hit, seeing as the other player is the one that has, unwillingly mind you, broken the snipers MED and has put him in such a situation.

 

Basically it is not saying that either party should be excused for opening fire on the other in such short ranges for whatever reason, more saying that in that situation as it is the other player that has caused the problem to arise if they are offered the hit it would be good sportsmanship to take it. To laugh at them and then shoot them is really not fair play, you didn't check your surroundings and you are using the players disadvantage against them, to my mind it would be my fault and I would take it. That is my main point, too many people would say 'oh but I am in your MED so here is a shot up close', personally I don't think that is even remotely acceptable play as you have got close to them without knowing.

 

Again if it was a sniper that kept running into people up close and trying to 'bang' kill them as they can't fire within that MED that is his problem and would need to be brought up on it.

 

'FireKnife'

[Baddbaz]

The sniper should carry a secondary and then there is not a problem with med

[Im going space]

Right, so far every site ive even looked at that allows upto 500 (or 450 or 550 ect) fps bolt action (or anything with an MED) requires you to have a secondary. Also none of these sites play a bang rule.

Options for the sniper:

1) break stealth and pop him with your pistol

2) get up and "knife kill" him (every site ive played requires an above the waist / below the neck

3) wait until he is outside your med and hit him with your rifle.

 

My personal choice? Stay quiet. If you are that well hidden, stay hidden.

[FTZ-WildeCard]

The sniper should carry a secondary and then there is not a problem with med

 

Pretty much Baz, common sense!

[FireKnife]

Sadly, while it is common sense how many places have you been to where everyone excersices common sense? Most of the sites I have attended give no need for a secondary and one gave no real MED (they said 5m max).

 

Sadly up here that is a big issue, maybe it is the attitude of people up here but often in the above situation the play would turn, spray the bolt action user in the face, they would trade blows and it would all end badly.

 

But again we are talking hypothetically and it is more guaging how many people think that 'oh they are in the MED, irrelevant of if it is my fault or not, I am going to shoot them'. I personally think that given the option I would say take it, have the balls to admit you have caused an issue and the easiest way to solve it is to walk off and just respawn.

 

'FireKnife'

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Not at all FK.. At least at the sites I have been to, where the Bang rule is played, you actually already have to have a weapon capable of engaging at a given range.

 

It is offered as a courtesy instead of shooting someone and not because you are within your MED - where, coincidentally, you should not be shooting anyone, anyway!

 

I'm glad now that the sites I have been too recently have done away with the Bang rule, as you end up having conversations like on this thread. Some on one side and some on the other which can lead to unfortunate disagreements on the field. Best to stick to the ways that best confirm a kill - hand on the shoulder, knife tap or BB. 

 

Anyway, what has this got to do with Face Pro again?

[Inari]

It is not my job as a player to stay out of a sniper's MED, at all.

 

If you want to use a 500fps sniper rifle, then you need to be aware of your MED and adhere to it. If I happen upon you and am within your MED, and you have no secondary...then your out of luck. You are not allowed fire at me within the MED. If you do not want an MED, then use a secondary or use a site-legal rifle that doesn't require an MED.

 

It really is that simple. As a player, if I stumble into a sniper's MED - that is not my fault...that's the game. The game has rules, an MED is one of them, and another is that for a bang kill to be used you need to have a gun capable of firing. A 500fps sniper rifle within the MED is not capable of firing; use whatever real world logic you want - the gun is not able to be fired.

 

In that hypothetical situation, the sniper sans secondary can either move back until he can make the shot, knife kill the opponent, or wait and hope that he leaves. He is not in a position to bang kill because his gun cannot fire. That's it. If he doesn't want to get lit up, he can call hit and respawn. The onus is on the sniper to know their MED's if they're to be trusted with a 500fps rifle.

[Im going space]

This guy gets it.

[Habakure]

Someone says "bang" to me, I say hit. It's then up to you wether you tell a marshall, to look into it. And if the marshall checks the player out and finds he had a med and fell short of it, you're back in the game. The sniper gets a warning, and you've done the right thing. If a site has a bang rule, obey it. If you think a player has broken a rule, tell a marshall.

 

Be the bigger man here and obey the site rules. Nothing wrong with telling a marshall after the event.

[Baddbaz]

If its a continuous ongoing problem with a sites rules or marshalling . Name and shame the site on the forums . Continued bad feedback is not good business practice for anyone , especialy in the Airsoft world .

Confront the owner / marshalls first though and explain your grievances with them / site / players .

At the end of the day you are a customer paying for an experience / service .

[DWZippy]

-Nonsense-

 

 

A sniper has many advantages, often a concealed position, a more accurate rifle [arguable, but bear with me] and added range. These advantages also give him some disadvantages, and one of those is his MED. If I see a sniper drawing down on me, I'm going to chuck myself into some cover and work my way forwards. 

 

I am not in the wrong if I use a snipers MED to my advantage - Those are the rules of the game, and while it may be in place for safety, it's also a game mechanic, and if he doesn't want to catch a burst of .25, he'd better scamper away to the edge of his MED again. Is it wrong for a player to run away from a grenade tossed into his room solely because it's against the rules to "cook" a pyro? Would it be wrong for me to fire fully automatic at a guy with a pistol because his gun only has semi-functionality? These examples are all the same, they're standard conditions during a skirmish and offering yourself up as a sacrifice because "you accidentally unwittingly snuck up on a sniper" is stupid.

 

just in case you haven't got it [because in the nicest way possible, the suggestion that the player that breaks a sniper's MED is in some way at fault is genuine insanity and I question how often you've actually played to even think that] No-one is at fault if they find themselves within a players MED. The player holding the 500FPS bolt-action rifle is at fault if he fires his weapon - every single airsofter should be looking for any advantage allowed within game rules to bring home the win, every weapon comes with it's own innate strengths and weaknesses, learn to use what you're holding to overcome what they're holding. 

 

[Also, shoot whoever you want at close range if you've got a gun that's okay to use at that range. That's the entire point of safe limits and as long as you're not being a *suitcase* and aiming at peoples faces it's kind of expected. 

[Habakure]

Or privates, don't aim at people's privates. It's just not cricket.

[Inari]

Someone says "bang" to me, I say hit. It's then up to you wether you tell a marshall, to look into it. And if the marshall checks the player out and finds he had a med and fell short of it, you're back in the game. The sniper gets a warning, and you've done the right thing. If a site has a bang rule, obey it. If you think a player has broken a rule, tell a marshall.

 

Be the bigger man here and obey the site rules. Nothing wrong with telling a marshall after the event.

If the site has a bang rule that says that a bang kill has to be accepted, then I agree with you 100%. However where I disagree is that the bang kill is not really a rule per-say; it is a gentleman's courtesy. It is an "I would rather not shoot you at this distance, kind sir, however if you do not lift your hand immediately I will be forced to open fire"

 

You offer the kill, but it is not guaranteed until the hand is up and so you should remain ready to shoot as if your 'shot' missed. 

 

Don't get me wrong, 90% of the time I take a bang kill just to avoid the argument. I do not agree with myself doing that though because personally I believe that unless they've got the drop on me, then they won't make the shot. That sounds arrogant; it's not. It has nothing to do with my ability, but everything to do with theirs. I take bang kills gladly when people are close to me and outside of line of sight (i.e. to the side or to the rear), but I find some of them at best questionable, mostly because people misunderstand their dynamic.

[Baddbaz]

 

Or privates, don't aim at people's privates. It's just not cricket.[/quote

 

Always some one talking bol...cks on here !!! Lol

[Habakure]

Yeah, should have said "if someone says bang, from the rear, I say hit". Sorry for the confusion. I remember once, two people seemed to come out of nowhere and we all just kind of looked at each other. We agreed, that if anyone asked, we shot each other. Had a bloody good chat with them afterwards. It's those moments in airsofting, that I *fruitcage* love.

[DWZippy]

Yes, of course if the Bang rule was a rule anywhere I played [i don't like to play at sites that do have it, tbh] I'd take it, but I refuse to take responsibility for "creating a situation" if I enter a snipers MED. 

[Habakure]

So, try this on for size. It's a heavy thick forest. Eye sight is poor because the sun is low in the sky. You are prodding through the forest and there are shadows here and there, but bright in other places. You hear someone (someone who sounds close by) say "bang", you say hit. Do you then try to ask the person if they had a weapon capable of hitting you? As dead men tell no tales.

[FTZ-WildeCard]

So, try this on for size. It's a heavy thick forest. Eye sight is poor because the sun is low in the sky. You are prodding through the forest and there are shadows here and there, but bright in other places. You hear someone (someone who sounds close by) say "bang", you say hit. Do you then try to ask the person if they had a weapon capable of hitting you? As dead men tell no tales.

 

I would take it, but if that player then only had a Sniper Rifle then that would be dishonest play, no? 

 

It's the same as

 

"It's a heavy thick forest. Eye sight is poor because the sun is low in the sky. You are prodding through the forest and there are shadows here and there, but bright in other places. You hear  the tell-tale "pat" of a what could be a BB, but it could have just as well been a branch striking your kit (because it's a thick heavy forest). Do you then try to call out to see if someone has shot you? As dead men tell no tales."

 

Best thing in both situations is be honest. If it sounds like a hit, but I don't know - I'll take it; but if I know I've got a weapon I shouldn't be using within its MED and that's all I've got and I am unable to take someone out in any other legitimate fashion, I am not going to deceive them. 

 

Hope that comes across eloquently as it did in my head, without sounding too aggressive, etc.

[Habakure]

Putting points in bold, in my own opinion, always comes across as a bit excessive. My point was, there is dishonest play in airsoft and I won't then be dishonest to prove a point (as in my point of asking to see if a player had ammo left/was within his med, etc). As I said earlier, if you feel a person has cheated, tell a marshall. If it happens a lot and nothing is done, vote with your feet. That is of course, if there is another airsoft site near by.

 

Also, I'm not a sniper player. I am coming at this from my earlier post, about being a gentleman on the field. And to clarify. My view of being a gentleman on the field, is to play fair, even if those around you are not.

 

Edit:- I'm starting to feel like a politician here. The thick forrest scenario was to extenuate the fact, you might not see who hit/bang killed you. Now, we are talking about the dreaded bang kill and if the other player is being dishonest. Yes, he's being dishonest by giving you the bang kill. But if you then start arguing with them, in my view, your being as bad as them. Tell a marshall, if and when you feel aggrieved during a game.

 

Edit 2:- "Do you then try to call out to see if someone has shot you? As dead men tell no tales." I would say hit and go re-gen, wait for a medic, depending on the game dynamics. I've been in a game and called "hit" when I thought I felt a bb hit me. It wasn't, it was a small rock someone had thrown at me, to get my attention. So yes, dead men tell no tales.

 

Also, half face masks can be a pain. Am opting for them, but they can irritate my nose.