NEW KSC Releases

[Sledge]

Dear god, sp00n and HaVoC agree with me. I must be right. I'm sorry, but I feel the cleaner (why not capitalise your name? Do you really feel that inadequate?) is attention seeking. He can't construct an argument, or present evidence of his "facts," so I suggest we ignore him from now on.

 

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to the 1911 and the 226. Not so bothered about the USP, the full size just doesn't do anything for me. Be interesting to see how these guns stack up against the TM versions (when TM get their finger out and release a 1911!).

 

[Catchv22]

I own an M945 right now and am not very satisfied with it's toyish shiny finish and it's ridiculous weighted grips. However, the blowback is one of the things that have not had any problems. It cycles extremely fast due to the light weight ABS slide and has decent kick.

 

The point with power though is that I agree WA GBBs tend to be more powerful on green than other brands of GBBs. I kind of chuckle when people are amazed at 320 fps on green gas, when my WA does around 350 standard. Of course power isn't everything, the G&P SVD does 450 and yet without hop up, isn't effective after 20 feet.

 

I have not had experience with the KSC Mk23, which the argument seems to have been based around, and have heard quite a few complaints about it. However, I have seen the USPc and I do not feel it is a poor performer at all. Can you please elaborate more on this?

 

P.S. Less insults and more points please.

[Guest]

Dear god, sp00n and HaVoC agree with me. I must be right. I'm sorry, but I feel the cleaner (why not capitalise your name? Do you really feel that inadequate?) is attention seeking. He can't construct an argument, or present evidence of his "facts," so I suggest we ignore him from now on.

 

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to the 1911 and the 226. Not so bothered about the USP, the full size just doesn't do anything for me. Be interesting to see how these guns stack up against the TM versions (when TM get their finger out and release a 1911!).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah lets keep this on topic and move away from the Mk.23 etc. Lets make this thread 100 pages long by talking about the new releases rather than arguing over if the Mk.23 is any good or not!

 

Yeah I can't wait to see the TM 1911A1 and Glock 17 GBB's. Wonder what they will turn out like.

[Sledge]

Ooh, forgot about the Glock 17 from TM. Wonder if there's any chance they'll make it without the ****ing finger grooves and rail?

 

[dirty mao]

well, i know the arguments over, but ima throw in my twopence. i've owned a KSC Mk23, two G18's, a G17, and an M9. out of these, the G17 and 18s had probably the best performance (IE, snappy blowback, decent power, all that). the M9 required more maintainance (probably because of the cruddy silicone i used). the Mk23 was, however, the most accurate, longest ranged, and most powerful (judging by the soda-can-chrono and the pain test). the blowback was, of course, sluggish, but the slide on that gun is FRIGGIN MASSIVE. of course the stock recoil is gonna suck. but that's more than made up for by all the awesome qualities.

 

in my experience with my own and friends KSC/ KWAs, the Mk23 is the ONLY one to have sluggish recoil. the 945 had an awesome blowback, as the the CZ. i never tried the 2340, but the 2009 worked fine for me. and the 93R....well, i'd take it over a G18 any day.

[snowman]

The point with power though is that I agree WA GBBs tend to be more powerful on green than other brands of GBBs. I kind of chuckle when people are amazed at 320 fps on green gas, when my WA does around 350 standard. Of course power isn't everything, the G&P SVD does 450 and yet without hop up, isn't effective after 20 feet.

 

Power is relative - 320 is pretty reasonable in the UK temperatures for Green gas. Of the MANY WAs I've tested, few will do 350 out of the box here.

 

I have not had experience with the KSC Mk23, which the argument seems to have been based around, and have heard quite a few complaints about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Performance <> blowback speed ALONE. If the cleaner had SAID 'the blowback is sluggish', I suspect no-one would have argued (even if it seems to be a 'feature' of the gun.), but he said 'The performance sucks' and the simple fact is that the power and accuracy is at least on a par with the best that WA and TM can offer, which is to say, as good as it gets out of the box.

 

Finally, I'd love to know, too, which airsoft GBB has an appreciably better trigger than the 945 out of the box. I'm going to get one!

 

Cheers.

[Sledge]

Hey, if you find that better trigger, let me know. Maybe the KSC 1911 will?

 

[gooseman]

KSC Making a P226 hardly excites me at all. It's still gonna be plastic. Oh sure, it may be better plastic than TM but I still wouldn't run Green gas in it on a hot summer day. As for the USP 45. Tanaka make a damn fine Heavy Weight P8

 

I've handled one of these babies and the blowback on it is exceptional. It was kicking as a hard as a WA 1911. (hardly surprising since it uses the Magna system).

 

PS. I find quoting velocities of guns so misleading. Haven't you guys noticed how drastically the velocities vary based on temperature. On a hot summer day, 25 Celsius, I was clocking my WA Para Ordnance close to 400 fps. During the fall, where temperatures drop to around 15 celsius, I'd be lucky to get 310 fps out of it.

[Guest]

Yeah but the Tanaka Heavy Weight P8 is expensive, even by KSC Mk.23 standards. If I recall correctly it is also rare and like the KJW also has its problems (although don't quote me on that).

 

I still think a full sized USP from KSC is very good news as all the currently released ones have various problems, from price to magazines that leak and other things in between. Regardless of what people say about the Mk.23, KSC make excellent GBB's, so I can't see the USP .45 being any sort of exception to that.

[Gene]

As for the USP 45.  Tanaka make a damn fine Heavy Weight P8

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But it doesn't have those sexy .45 trademarks.

[Jedigreedo]

Just saw the awesome news, I'm all giddy. I've been wanting to get a GBB USP for awhile but didn't want to deal with the downfalls of the KJW stuff. (Since I wanted a metal slide version of a USP tactical)

 

No doubt there will be a metal slide/tactical barrel kit for this though, so all's well. I can't wait for it!

[Qhs]

We've been bashing and smashing these guns, but what about an guesstimated release date?

[Catchv22]

Unfortunately, the Tanaka doesn't have many aftermarket parts and is rare. That's also a P8, not the USP for those who are pedantics to guns.

[SilentScope]

Here are some of the problems Ive had with the 3 stock Mk23s that have come my way. (And I'm not saying these are my be-all-to-end-all opinions, just my experiences)

 

The Mk23 has great range, but poor velocity (mid 280 to high 280 FPS). And a lot of the time the mag cools down too fast so the FPS drops a pretty good amount.

Many of the internal parts in the lower frame tend fail from prolonged use. Not too many them have been changed in the newer 2005 version.

The recoil is not strong compared to other replicas (I figured that was a bad thing but some of you disagree so I guess it depends on the shooter)

The stock replica will not run on Green gas or Abbey Predator (though a new hammer spring will help)

The hopup adjustment collar is not tight enough meaning that you have to adjust the hopup constantly or you get differences in accuracy

 

Problems I've found with the KSC USPC (*Japanese one only*)

 

Great range, poor velocity

The piston cup in the piston unit will blow out of place from using green gas

Many of the internal parts will break from prolonged use. This is the USPCs biggest weak point in my experiences. Its not even like the MK23 where there are only certian high-stress points in the gun. In the USPC it just seems like anything can do wrong. You could probably find a good amount of evidence of things like this happening on this forum

 

Hope you guys are having a good summer. just remember to take it slow

 

Ohh and on the subject of upgrades, based on my experiances, just about any Japanese upgrade part you buy (KM, SD, Nine Ball, Protec, etc) is better than the stock one and will help preformance/reliability. As for those shady Hong Kong upgrades, well Im not so sure.

[snowman]

The Mk23 has great range, but poor velocity (mid 280 to high 280 FPS). And a lot of the time the mag cools down too fast so the FPS drops a pretty good amount.

 

Even in mild UK temperatures, I've seen much better than that with my two Mk23s.

 

281 is my lowest performance using HFC gas at 19C - Winter gas produced 320+ fps at 19C.

 

I don't know what temperatures you've tested at. Maybe it gets warmer in NY?

 

Many of the internal parts in the lower frame tend fail from prolonged use. Not too many them have been changed in the newer 2005 version.

The recoil is not strong compared to other replicas (I figured that was a bad thing but some of you disagree so I guess it depends on the shooter)

 

The hopup adjustment collar is not tight enough meaning that you have to adjust the hopup constantly or you get differences in accuracy

 

You might be right on reliability, neither of my guns have failed, but neither have been heavily used. As you say recoil is not STRONG (or rather, IMO, FAST as it kick strongly, but in a dampened way), but some see that as in the nature of the gun. As I said earlier I've not messed with the hop-up really.

 

The stock replica will not run on Green gas or Abbey Predator (though a new hammer spring will help)

 

Will not? Mine ran fine on both with no mods.

 

Cheers.

[Megalomaniac]

Yeah it gets warm in new york, when I leave work its like walking into a bathroom.

[SilentScope]

Why do you think Im indoors on Arnies Snowman?

 

I got that FPS with my HW 05 Mk23 when it just came out. I might try it again if I can find all of my OEM parts.

 

My experience with green gas in stock Mk23s has been that using the stuff makes for an overpressured magazine causing the gun sputter instead of cycling all the way.

 

I hope no one gets me wrong though. I love my current Mk23 and my USPC. They are beautiful looking replicas and can perform well with certian upgrades. Maybe Ive just had some bad luck with them.

[snowman]

Yes, I was wondering if it's TOO much pressure in the mag, as you talk about stronger hammer springs helping.

 

It rarely gets THAT warm here

 

Cheers.

[PenGun]

Just wondering about a slide lock on the Mk23. I read one of the first reports on the SOCOM pistol when it was released by HK and they said it had a slide lock function that allowed an operator to fire a shot and not have the pistol cycle and thus be stealthier ...Might be a handy thing to have on a GBB, but I have no idea how you could do it...Maybe some divert valve that seals the blowback chamber....

Just a thought...

And also if the SOCOM has such crappy performance why have KSC bothered to make a few different variants and why is it so popular?

A side note: I hear way more complaints about KSC looking good but having mediocre performance than WA. Or maybe its the early versions of their current lineup that are not all that great performance wise...early CZ75, SigPro 2009, Beretta M8000 etc.

[Sledge]

Only prototype SOCOMs had the slide lock, it was dropped for the production model IIRC.

 

[SilentScope]

You would have to machine a one way piston. Physically blocking the slide would probably not last long. There would be some weakpoint where it would fail eventually. I would just buy a Marui Mk23 and pretend it looks good.

 

With the Mk23 real slide lock, someone told me that they would wear down after very few rounds and had to be replaced. I think that the recoil spring was removed for this modification meaning if it were to break youd be eating Mk23 for breakfast.

[bronney]

KSC USP with a Zeke USP Slide.. omfg this could cost more than a WA!! Add tactical threaded outer barrel but don't change inner barrel. When the game comes, screw on the silencer like bruce did it in tears of the sun. Oh man.. I am so ready. NOT!! damn bank!.

 

Hey silentscope, yesterday I was doing a thorough cleaning of my uspc and was fiddling around with the floating valve.. It seems that we can clip off 2 columns in the valve just like I did the mag valve. That should give more forward force and increase the puny fps we have I might try it tonite.

 

For now, on a full charge, the first shot is barely 1J.

[snowman]

>> For now, on a full charge, the first shot is barely 1J.

 

Sounds pretty good - 328fps from a gas pistol... What's the temp and I guess you're using Green gas?

 

Cheers.

[bronney]

The temp was around 26C and I was using green. I don't have a chrono but it did 1 coke side with the other side almost untouched. I would just like a tad bit more for range.

[SilentScope]

Need pictures Booney. Will that mess with my recoil though? I dont want that. Not after all the money I blew on the protec unit and the nineball valves! If it is worth it I have this new new dremel press Ive been wanting to break something expensive on for a while.

 

I got my USPC over 1J the other day. However I have spent more on just internal upgrades than on the original gun! (And I left the mag in the sun for like 20 min ). Ohh and there may have been a Proud hammer spring in there somewhere (which is really dumb).

 

And Booney the Zeke slide is worth it. Ive seen them and they are absolutely unbelievable. It looks better than the real thing. If they make one for the USP I will have I hard time staying away from it.