XM8

[unimatrix001]

The reason for the change of designation was that Colt sued H&K for using the term "M4" for their AR variant. Colt fears H&K, they know that H&K made the better job, so they trie everything to put a spoke in H&K's wheels. Colt will be bankrupt if the US army abandons the M4 and replace it by another system.

[Machineabuse]

Everyone knows 'why' HK redesignated the product, but the particular choice of designation is what's interesting given that a very similar product with a similar designation was floating about.

 

If HK releases a civvie consumption version called the HK415 then we'll know for sure

[CommandoBoy]

They want to make sure that some American rifle wins... with other words a AR15 design...

Jipp it has

 

http://www.hkdefense.us/corporate/media/pdf/GLMPR051205.pdf

If i had to bet I would say that some US manufacurers (maybe Colt with its "M5") will knock-off H&Ks ideas, offer a cheapish and crappy alternative and the US Armed Forces will buy this ###### because it's American... same procedure as always 

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I am sick and tired of AR-15 in the US Military. I mena I love armalites, but come on. I think the XM8 or the Combat Proven G36 would be good.

[commandercolt]

The OICW has been dropped a while back. They split it up into 2 weapons, the xm 320(i believe), and the xm-8.

 

The m16 needs to be replaced. It's a 40 year old design and though it has worked well, the xm-8 has it beat in every point from the modular design to production cost. In one of the field trials, the xm-8 had an overheating problem, which caused the army to send out another notice saying they are looking for a new assault rifle(same one they sent out a few years back, which lead to the xm-8), though they continue to test the xm-8. I've read and saw a picture saying that they sent a few of the working rifles to Iraq for a true field test. I've also read(but I can't be sure) that H&K is hard at work fixing the xm-8 problem, and have almost come to a solution. I also read that the fn2000 is being strongly considered as well.

 

As for the FN SCAR, it has been accepted for use by SOCOM, and will enter production soon.

[strategery]

F2000 for US Army assault rifle 2006

[CommandoBoy]

The OICW has been dropped a while back.  They split it up into 2 weapons, the xm 320(i believe), and the xm-8.

 

The m16 needs to be replaced.  It's a 40 year old design and though it has worked well, the xm-8 has it beat in every point from the modular design to production cost.  In one of the field trials, the xm-8 had an overheating problem, which caused the army to send out another notice saying they are looking for a new assault rifle(same one they sent out a few years back, which lead to the xm-8), though they continue to test the xm-8.  I've read and saw a picture saying that they sent a few of the working rifles to Iraq for a true field test.  I've also read(but I can't be sure) that H&K is hard at work fixing the xm-8 problem, and have almost come to a solution.  I also read that the fn2000 is being strongly considered as well.

 

As for the FN SCAR, it has been accepted for use by SOCOM, and will enter production soon.

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If they are considering the F2000, they bloody damn consider the P90 as well.

[strategery]

SF teams have used the P90 for quite sometime. There is a reason it isn't used quite as much as say, the MP5. However, I can't discuss it here as real steel ballistics are not to be discussed on this forum.

[USN_F35]

If they are considering the F2000, they bloody damn consider the P90 as well.

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The P90 isnt really in the same category as the F2000 or the XM8. Those are assualt rifles. The P90 is more along the lines of a UMP or an MP5.

[CommandoBoy]

The P90 isnt really in the same category as the F2000 or the XM8. Those are assualt rifles. The P90 is more along the lines of a UMP or an MP5.

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Yeah but I know you know that the P90 would be better than the MP5. MORE POWER.

[expvideo]

Nope it was just split in an assault rilfe (XM8) and a grenade launcher component(XM25 if I remeber it correctly, because the OICW or XM29 isn't possible to do with the current technology. It will be combined later again when technology is more advanced.

You can update the AR series as often as you can afford it, it'll be still a crappy gun. Get rid of it. Also look isn't a relevant criteria for an assault rifle and it's highly subjective which gun looks good and which looks bad.

The biggest problem of the M9 isn't the calibre, the problem is that it's made cheapish and crappy in the USA. Compare the Original Beretta 92F with the standard issue M9... it's a bad joke.

 

Sure a bigger calibre offers more stopping power, but that's only one factor in a complex equation. Shot placement is more important than calibre IMHO. Nevertheless a bigger calibre isn't the solution of all problems. Train and educate your soldiers better and don't recruit 17 year old dumb nuts without high-school promotion for the Armed Forces.

I think it's the other way arround, the POF system was announced a few month after the HKM4 was first time shown at a gun show as far as I remember it. Bad timing maybe, the systems are similar but not identical so it's also likley that two companies had the same idea at the same time.

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I'm sure your opinion on this matter is completely lacking in favoritism? JK, actually I couldn't agree more. The only way HK will get the project is if they:

 

a - produce it in the US

b - cut the price in half

 

As for the M9, (how to put this without discussing ammo...) The .45's will be less reliable, because:

 

a - they will have the same abuse the m9's do

b - they will be made as cheaply (they ruined the beretta! the BERETTA!)

c - they won't be cleaned, or maintained as much as they should be

d - all above resulting in feeding problems you won't have with the M9 based on calibre.

 

The .45's aren't going to be as reliable. I hate to say it. They'll start out that way, but whent he DoD is done cutting cost corners, the 45 will be a pile of metal *beep*.

 

And you're right in the fact that the XM8, ugly as it may be, is a good gun. And the US isn't looking for a "sexy" gun that will get troops laid. They're looking for a gun better than the M16. Which, despite popular beleif, isn't "every" gun. I mean there's the hipoint carbine. That's slightly worse, right?

 

F2000 for US Army assault rifle 2006

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Seconded! That would be perfect. We need a bulpup. And a good one. Since the US doesn't seem to have a problem with FN, that may be a possibility.

 

Aaron

 

[Agent47]

Yeah but I know you know that the P90 would be better than the MP5. MORE POWER.

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and those annoying long-*albatross* mags no one can find decent MOLLE pouches for...

[CommandoBoy]

and those annoying long-*albatross* mags no one can find decent MOLLE pouches for...

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True. But the US can jsut use the ALICE AK/FAL/G3 mag pouches. There based on US ALICE M16 Mag pouches.

[LoneWolf]

When my *albatross* is on the line, I don't give a damn if the weapon I'm using looks like a Lamborghini Murcielago, or has a label "Made with pride in the US of A". It must hit what I wan't to hit, and stop what I wan't to stop. And do it whenever and wherever I have to.

 

 

 

 

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[Xaccers]

When my *albatross* is on the line, I don't give a damn if the weapon I'm using looks like a Lamborghini Murcielago, or has a label "Made with pride in the US of A". It must hit what I wan't to hit, and stop what I wan't to stop. And do it whenever and wherever I have to.

™

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Yes, but your an end user, so your opinion doesn't matter to the bean counters at the top who want something that will do the job well enough that things won't go wrong and make them look bad without costing too much (which would then make them look bad for wasting tax payers money on giving soldiers the best equipment available rather than the "will just about do the job" equipment available)

[LoneWolf]

True. The average Joe never held or shot a firearm, but he pays taxes and want's to see effects. The more bling, the happier he is.

 

Whenever I tell someone weapon reliability is important, and that a weapons jam can cost a life, I hear the "well then clean it" remark.

 

 

 

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[Spezz]

Hey Unimatrix, I read on the HKpro forum somewhere that some police departments in USA that had G36's want to replace them by some AR-15 variant. Supposebly the G36's red dot or the scope lose zero in heat because the composite expanded and the optics are mounted directly on that plastic. Doesn't make sence to me, first I have trouble believing this and secondly if it is a prob, why not buy the flat top rail and mount other optics, or would that cause the same thing because the rail itself is mounted on the polymer? What do you think?

[LoneWolf]

Hey Unimatrix, I read on the HKpro forum somewhere that some police departments in USA that had G36's want to replace them by some AR-15 variant. Supposebly the G36's red dot or the scope lose zero in heat because the composite expanded and the optics are mounted directly on that plastic. Doesn't make sence to me, first I have trouble believing this and secondly if it is a prob, why not buy the flat top rail and mount other optics, or would that cause the same thing because the rail itself is mounted on the polymer? What do you think?

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Every material expands and contracts when exposed to heat/cold. To me, it's possible. The G36 is made from a form of plastic afterall. I never took a G36 apart, so I can't tell if the "C" variants rail is mounted onto the polymer receiver, or a metal chassis.

 

 

 

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[Jammy_Stuff]

XM8 for teh win!!!! Ist am teh sex!!!!

[LoneWolf]

XM8 for teh win!!!! Ist am teh sex!!!!

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It work, me buy.

 

 

 

 

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[Catchv22]

The XM8 looks ugly, but I just love it's functions and features. I haven't really kept up to date with the XM8 project, but last I heard, the brass were sold on it even though I think it's a waste of money seeing as those funds could go to other places right now. Still I like the XM8 even though I really don't see the need for the US Army to adopt it.

 

Why is it that everytime I hear AR15 bashing or something, I just think that those posters are completely ignorant. I mean I know the AR15 is not nearly as reliable as an AK or G36, but still, it doesn't make it the worst creation on the Earth to have ever been beheld by man kind in all its existence, nor did it steal your wallet and create HIV/AIDS.

 

The AR18 doesn't even use the same system as the AR15, and the L85A2s are vastly improved over the older ones and their issues. Apparently if something is made by Armalite though, it makes it horrible. I guess using that logic, KJW sucks too doesn't it Darklite. I know you'll have something to say about that.

 

Edit: Almost forgot your beloved CA. They made plenty of lemons in their day didn't they? It's all in good humor.

[Jammy_Stuff]

Quoted for truth Darklite

[Frost92]

Wait, just adopt a bullpup like the AUG!

[JKon]

I second Catchv22's post. All of it.

[iBAWLS]

truth be told that the XM8 is an american made gun, designed, developed, and produced by HKUSA, just based on the G36 platform. The FN SCAR is the same way developed by FN USA which means from the DOD perspective colt has no advatage when adopting new weapons systems. Colt has nothing on HK and FN, they should stick with pistols

[unimatrix001]

Hey Unimatrix, I read on the HKpro forum somewhere that some police departments in USA that had G36's want to replace them by some AR-15 variant. Supposebly the G36's red dot or the scope lose zero in heat because the composite expanded and the optics are mounted directly on that plastic. Doesn't make sence to me, first I have trouble believing this and secondly if it is a prob, why not buy the flat top rail and mount other optics, or would that cause the same thing because the rail itself is mounted on the polymer? What do you think?

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Hmmm sounds strange... I don't like the standard optics of the G36 too much to be honest, especially the RDS is too small and failture prone IMO, but I've never heard about that problem. The Bundeswehr had some issues with their first G36 sights, but nothing like that. The main issue was that the RDS tends to fogging in wet conditions and the scope losed zero if it was droped hard a few times (which is normal with every scope I presume ). Also our troops in Afghanistan had no problem with the G36 sights, at least I know no reports about sight failures.

 

The problem with the standard G36C Picatinny rail is that it's also made of polymer. Most optic-mounts are made of metal. So it's not the best combination if temperature fluctuates massivly (like in Afghanistan e.g.). Therefore H&K introduced aluminium rails which fix that problem. But that's something only the military needs to care about, for LE purposes there's no real need for something like that. Fluctuation of temperature should be very limited in the operation areas/time-spans of Law Enforcement Officers.

 

 

Every material expands and contracts when exposed to heat/cold. To me, it's possible. The G36 is made from a form of plastic afterall. I never took a G36 apart, so I can't tell if the "C" variants rail is mounted onto the polymer receiver, or a metal chassis.

™

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Yes it's possible, but you would have the same problem with metal. I've no idea about the expansion rate of the H&K polymer in heat, but it should be a very limited effect.

 

The sight is mounted on the top of the G36 receiver, there's no direct contact to the metal/operational parts of the gun. The scope itself is "free floating" in it's housing, the only contact-points with the housing are at the front and the rear end, so it's very unlikely that temperature effects zero.