KSC VZ61 and PM

[FireKnife]

How do people run VZ61s gear wise? They look fun but...impractical. Looks like you would need a Kydex drop leg mount kind of thing to utilize it as a secondary.

 

Indoor primary or outdoor sling like a MP5K (and used as a long gun back up). At least that is the only two ways I have seen one used.

 

Personally I would avoid the outdoor option as it is going to get bashed to bits or become hard to draw when needed while keeping it secured.

 

Finally, a decent airsoft klob.

 

That's "Klobb", though it would go nicely with my PP7, now if only I could perfect the 'drop out of eyeline and bring back up' reload

 

Video: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkE5ao-PEB0#t=219

 

Hmm, that was last year though, about the last time we heard any news of a plastic KSC Makarov. Well even if they have pre-orders up for 2015 and it comes out in 2016 they might still beat KWA and their metal model . Though I have a feeling WE might be hot on the heels of this or beat it?

 

'FireKnife'

[NightFury]

Attach the VZ61 to your back Winter Soldier style. Hopefully you watch Captain America 2. I'd love to do a Winter Soldier loadout for CQB.

[Desert.Express]

The VZ61 will always be "Klobb" in my mind.

 

Besides, why no wooden grips? Hope someone will produce custom ones.

[hitmanNo2]

Ah yeah.  I forgot about the Winter Soldier style of weapon retention.  Was he covered in magnets?  He just had guns stuck to him like a video game character.

[rusTORK]

Besides, why no wooden grips? Hope someone will produce custom ones.

Plastic is simply cheaper AND support aftermarket. =)

[NightFury]

Ah yeah.  I forgot about the Winter Soldier style of weapon retention.  Was he covered in magnets?  He just had guns stuck to him like a video game character.

It looks like a magnent plate in pictures I see online. Unless it's sometype of weapons cache we can't quite see clearly/

[swatti]

Ehem, there is already a full metal blowback Makarov. 

 

EDIT:

its built by WinGun, has rather interesting blowback design, similar to the infamous "keltek .22 whatevah" - Its basicly a NBB gun with blowback just added in. It works like it should. Slide locks up after last round and its cycle is used to load a round into the chamber. Only minus is flimsy spring moving the slide and fixed hopup. It took me 30 minutes to find a stiffer spring that fits and add a small hex-screw to adjust the hopup.

The barrel is locked into the frame so its VERY accurate and for reason unkown its VERY LOUD and thats coming from a Inokatsu M1911 owner.

 

KSC has lot to prove if its gonna beat the WG.

[Brigg]

I've had guns that use that system. The win gun 1911 that g&g often redistribute and the recently released Beretta m84 both use that type of setup.

 

I can't say I'm a fan. The trigger pull is ridiculously long because that's what chambers a round, not the slide. In the case of the m84 there is no hop up and it barely reaches to 50 feet. The magazines are also huuuuge. Also due to the way it works, there is no double action. And if you attempt to fire it without the hammer cocked, it will just chamber a BB, which will then roll out of the barrel. What it really is, is an old BB gun system repurposed for AirSoft, and its very sloppy.

 

Assuming that this is the same way the WG makarov works, which from what i can tell its essentially identical internally, KSC doesnt have to prove anything, the WG version is no competition, at all.

[swatti]

If im not mistaken, the original PM is single action, thus WG being quite true to the real deal. (?)

 

I had to go and check, it actually does chamber a round via trigger-pull. It is quite long but light. While it can chamber multible rounds and have them roll out the barrel, it does make the system VERY simplistic and leave very few moving parts. The slide is a simple nearly one-piece "addon" to the whole thing.

 

Magazines seem regular size, maybe a bit wider due to 12g CO2 capsule, half of them is plastic, odd, maybe to reduce cooldown. Due to the mag catch you wont drop the mags like in a western pistol, thus you wont see the mags break when dropped... 

I myself like the low'ish capacity, 17 rounds makes a point having spares and for CO2 mags they are cheap, 25 euros a pop.

 

WG does have a functioning hopup. As i said, i converted mine to adjustable. Its rather simple design but efficant and has good air-seal.

 

If the KSC is plastic i'd say im happy to have my WG. Also, considoring the design, there doesnt seem to be a single thing "that could go wrong" while regular GBB designs have many. That said, im sure KSC will be a bit more "refined" in all aspects compared to the WG. 

[Brigg]

Theres nothing that can go wrong with that simple system, until the cheap, ultra flimsy pot metal they use for all of their parts breaks. WG's pot metal isnt even on par with WE. Some of the parts on the M84 are so thin that you can literally bend them by squeezing too hard, such as the outer barrel.

[swatti]

Thing is, this aint M84.

 

Any part under stress or wear seems to be made from very thick material or something stronger.

There's still pot metal but compared to WE much better. Comparison being WE M16 & WE 1911s.

 

Someone really put some thought into this. I'd say profit margin was on their mind too but I can't find a single part that would fail anytime soon... Or later for that matter.

[Brigg]

Its the same company that makes the M84 and "Extreme 45". I can safely assume that the quality of the parts is going to be more or less the same, which is considerably less then impressive. And far, far, FAR below the quality level of anything produced by KSC. Thats like comparing apples to corvettes.

 

To answer your question from before, The makarov was always a double action pistol, from the beginning. There was no single action only type that Im aware of., you might be confusing it with the tokarev which was SAO. So the WG model is quite wrong in that respect. Also worth noting about the WG's trigger, is that you cannot rapidly fire the pistol. If you dont return the trigger to its full forward position, it wont reset to load another BB. So the trigger must be pulled all the way, every time or you'll just be shooting c02 and no BBs.

[swatti]

My knowledge of IRL eastern hardware is quite limited.

 

I don't really mind the long trigger pull, nor have I had issues with it in a skirmish.

 

I have one of those wingun first generation revolvers, the ones with the horrid pot metal.

The Makarov is FAR from it. I don't know what the M84 is like nor do I care, I can only say as I did before, the Makarov is better quality then WE metal.

 

Ksc will be better after some mods and metal slide/frame but at that point I'd imagine it's 350e +

Some ppl like easy and OOTB reliable gun they only have to shoot, not mod and for that, the WG delivers

[kagami]

http://www.pravda.jp/shopdetail/000000005606/

 

looks to be 230~USD in Japan. Quite low priced for what I think it's offering assuming its decent.

[renegadecow]

Everybody knows about Win Gun's attempt at a PM. It's just that people try to forget that it even exists. I'd rather have KWC's NBB over that to be honest.

[NightFury]

I don't think KWA is ever making a new gun. It's been a few years since they actually released anything. Along with all the promises they broke already. So far no vz61, Makarov, 945c, HK45c, nor the MP40 yet. Hopefully the KSC VZ and mags are out for a decent price. I'm a much bigger fan of the VZ than a mac-11. The mac-11 just seems odd to me. And MP9s seems to have mags out of stock everywhere.

[renegadecow]

Maybe not KWA USA, but is KWA Taiwan still around or was that what USA used to be? Because before KWA USA, Taiwan was regularly releasing simultaneously as Japan only for a global market with the benefit of producing metal slides.

[NightFury]

Well, I haven't seen anything new coming out of KWA last year or the year before that with maybe the exception of the Vector. There hasn't even been any news of new products on the KWA facebook either. Just a bunch of things that KWA already made.

[renegadecow]

There's the ERG from last year and they were present at SHOT show so they at least still exist right?

[NightFury]

I suppose. But at least we're finally getting another VZ61 gbb. Hopefully as good as their MP9s. I'd love to pick one up. It'd go great with my AK74. Wish I could find a away to mount it on my back like in The Winter Soldier. Maybe I can rig up a magnetic plate to hold on to the VZ. That is if  someone comes out with a steel kit for it. I think I can magnetize another decent sized steel plate with a car battery or something of that nature. That should do it.

[Rob15]

I don't think KWA is ever making a new gun. It's been a few years since they actually released anything. Along with all the promises they broke already. So far no vz61, Makarov, 945c, HK45c, nor the MP40 yet. Hopefully the KSC VZ and mags are out for a decent price. I'm a much bigger fan of the VZ than a mac-11. The mac-11 just seems odd to me. And MP9s seems to have mags out of stock everywhere.

The KWA Vz61 will no doubt be out soon after the KSC Vz61 given that they'll essentially be the same gun from the same factory in Taiwan much like the rest of the KSC/KWA range, I expect the KWA version will have more metal externally and be a bit cheaper but other than that any differences are going to be small cosmetic ones like trademarks.

 

I'm not really suprised the KWA releases have been a bit thin on the ground though, they seem to struggle to keep up supply of the existing range at times, let alone adding new products onto it, really I'd suggest people just forget about 'expecting' new products until they're listed on retailer websites for pre-order, airsofters seem to get way too hung up on 'promises' they think manufacturers have made when they show prototypes of products they intend to release at some point in the future.

[Brigg]

The KWA rep at SHOT show had specifically said that the MP40 would not be a 2014 release, so no big surprise on that.

 

Though they did also say that the other models like the Makarov, 1911a1 and Skorpion would be. And surprise surprise, they aren't. I would think normally that if KSC were to release something that KWA would be soon to follow with their version. However, the KSC AKS-74U has been available for a year now yet the KWA one is nowhere in sight. Seems like they were so fixated on that ugly Kriss spacegun that they didn't have any time to do anything else.

 

But I dont even care anymore, I had really wanted to wait for KWA's M1911a1 but after 2 and a half years I just caved and bought a C02 KJW one, and it has served me well enough that I cant complain. And now i figure i'm going to wind up with a WE Makarov PMM at this point, since its much more likely to be released then anything KWA talked about.

[NightFury]

I think WE's Makarov  is probably going to be sub-100 since it's so small. Not only that but mags will probably be extra cheap too. Hopefully if this is as gun as their latest pistol release, everything sounds golden.

[Stuey]

But how gun is gun enough?

[FireKnife]

I'd suggest people just forget about 'expecting' new products until they're listed on retailer websites for pre-order, airsofters seem to get way too hung up on 'promises' they think manufacturers have made when they show prototypes of products they intend to release at some point in the future.

 

Well it didn't exactly help when KWA not only stated that the PM was available to ship over a year ago, nor the fact they released a video of a full working one over two years ago and even had it as coming soon and appearing at three events in a row saying it was coming soon.

 

I mean yeah the TM M&P took a long time to come from prototype to actual gun but one we saw the stages it went through and got a 5-7, XDM, PX4 and the Recoil Shock series in that time. All KWA seem to have done it promised a lot and delivered us a Vector and stuck the words PTP on more things. If WE and others carry on making all these new things instead KWAs market is just going to diminish more and more. KSC don't really care as they are the Japan side and they seem to have a big internal market anyway.

 

So whoever makes a functional Makarov first in GBB gets my money. Looks like WE might be winning this one, maybe KSC, not KWA.

 

'FireKnife'