Yay! The Tibetans are revolting!

[Swerve]

Interesting angle here...

 

I could, if I wished, right here, bad mouth my government to the absolute extreme, I could pretty much say anything I wanted about them, and their allies (US etc)

 

I could personally insult Brown, insult his family, post up defaced pictures of him, I could do the same with Blair, Thatcher, Churchil and any other poster boys/girls from UK politics past and present.

 

In short, I could say what I wanted.

 

So, what would be the worst that could happen to me? A telling off from the mods maybe, then perhaps a short ban, followed account removal if I continued to constantly and maniacally defame and decry my government.

 

And that would be it. Getting into low grade bother on a web forum.

 

Now, you try doing the same thing from a web cafe or even your own home within China, with your target being the Chinese government.

 

That my friends, is the difference.

 

I wish those Tibetans well, I fear for them, as they are in the jaws of one of the most filthy, murderous, inhuman regimes ever to have dirtied the face of the planet.

 

[The End]

besides, where would the Tibetians ever get the arms for such an uprising? No one would support them...

[Kraut]

Interesting angle here...

 

I could, if I wished, right here, bad mouth my government to the absolute extreme, I could pretty much say anything I wanted about them, and their allies (US etc)

 

I could personally insult Brown, insult his family, post up defaced pictures of him, I could do the same with Blair, Thatcher, Churchil and any other poster boys/girls from UK politics past and present.

 

In short, I could say what I wanted.

 

So, what would be the worst that could happen to me? A telling off from the mods maybe, then perhaps a short ban, followed account removal if I continued to constantly and maniacally defame and decry my government.

 

And that would be it. Getting into low grade bother on a web forum.

 

Now, you try doing the same thing from a web cafe or even your own home within China, with your target being the Chinese government.

 

That my friends, is the difference.

 

I wish those Tibetans well, I fear for them, as they are in the jaws of one of the most filthy, murderous, inhuman regimes ever to have dirtied the face of the planet.

Finally, someone who gets it.

[Swerve]

I wouldn't say I'm on your side, but what I am against is authoritarianism. I'm sure we would disagree about many things, including Iraq, but that isn't what this topic is about.

[Kraut]

I wouldn't say I'm on your side, but what I am against is authoritarianism. I'm sure we would disagree about many things, including Iraq, but that isn't what this topic is about.

Never said you were, but you do understand freedom of expression, which a lot of people take for granted or worse, try to either do away with it for certain people or twist it around. The Communist Chinese strictly regulate expression, even Internet access. They are against the Tibetans practicing their religion peacefully.

[Swerve]

The freedom to disagree. Loudly if need be, and in public. Prescious.

 

 

[Stealthbomber]

The Communist Chinese strictly regulate expression, even Internet access.

You must have seen that famous picture of a guy stood in front of a tank in tiannenen square, right?

While I was in China, for laughs, I pulled up Google on a mates PC at work and typed in "tiannenen square". When the thought police failed to turn up immediately, I clicked the "images" tab and was very surprised to see that EVERY available version of that picture had been doctored so that there was a lamp-post in the foreground obscuring the guy stood in front of the tank.

 

When they can, somehow, alter or filter what google tells you it's pretty scary.

 

Also, I kinda resent you saying "he gets it" here, on page 4, given that since page 1 several of us have been saying that the chinese government is a really nasty piece of work.

[Chimpy]

Stealth - That's because Google censors itself for China!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4645596.stm

[Kraut]

You must have seen that famous picture of a guy stood in front of a tank in tiannenen square, right?

While I was in China, for laughs, I pulled up Google on a mates PC at work and typed in "tiannenen square". When the thought police failed to turn up immediately, I clicked the "images" tab and was very surprised to see that EVERY available version of that picture had been doctored so that there was a lamp-post in the foreground obscuring the guy stood in front of the tank.

 

When they can, somehow, alter or filter what google tells you it's pretty scary.

 

Also, I kinda resent you saying "he gets it" here, on page 4, given that since page 1 several of us have been saying that the chinese government is a really nasty piece of work.

Wow, that is creepy. I just figured it would've been blocked out completely, not edited. 1984 anyone?

 

 

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to sound like he was the only one, but I just thought he said it in a very succinct manner.

[Stealthbomber]

Stealth - That's because Google censors itself for China!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4645596.stm

Yep, I read about google censoring itself but to replace the pictures with altered versions isn't censoring. It's disinformation.

[Chimpy]

Censorship is disinformation as well. Granted its a step below digital manipulation but why if you can do one why not do the other? This is a government that pretty much exists on this sort of behaviour.

[Stealthbomber]

Censorship is disinformation as well. Granted its a step below digital manipulation but why if you can do one why not do the other? This is a government that pretty much exists on this sort of behaviour.

Yep.

 

The thing that surprised me was, with the internet it really never occurred to me that there might be any kind of "state-firewall" between my laptop, plugged in at the Shanghai Equatorial hotel, and the rest of the WWW.

There must be some pretty serious computing power hooked up to every data cable into china to successfully filter out all references to anything unPC.

[Pablo]

Interesting angle here...

 

I could, if I wished, right here, bad mouth my government to the absolute extreme, I could pretty much say anything I wanted about them, and their allies (US etc)

 

I could personally insult Brown, insult his family, post up defaced pictures of him, I could do the same with Blair, Thatcher, Churchil and any other poster boys/girls from UK politics past and present.

 

In short, I could say what I wanted.

 

So, what would be the worst that could happen to me? A telling off from the mods maybe, then perhaps a short ban, followed account removal if I continued to constantly and maniacally defame and decry my government.

 

And that would be it. Getting into low grade bother on a web forum.

 

Not necessarily. If it's done with style, we might join in.

 

[Swerve]

Do not tempt me!

 

[Chimpy]

Yep.

 

The thing that surprised me was, with the internet it really never occurred to me that there might be any kind of "state-firewall" between my laptop, plugged in at the Shanghai Equatorial hotel, and the rest of the WWW.

There must be some pretty serious computing power hooked up to every data cable into china to successfully filter out all references to anything unPC.

 

No more than most ISPs have.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_cens...public_of_China

 

About 30,000 government employees trawling the internet adding to the filter list helps as well.

 

There are lots of ways 'around' the censorship as well.

[DarkMM]

Just like in any other country, there is some internal struggle, many other countries have undergone this before. So your hands are also stained in blood.

 

Hmm but isn't this civil unrest arrising from invasion, annexation and colonisation? Or are all my Pre Korean War maps wrong...

 

DarkMM

 

 

 

[The End]

I see that you are Irish... I'm surprised that you don't see the irony in your point..

[GuzziHero]

I have to love this bit on the bottom of the latest news story about the situation on the BBC News website:

 

Are you in Tibet? Do you have friends or family in the region? How should the international community react to this situation?

 

Shouldnt that be...

 

"Are you in Tibet? If so, how the hell are you viewing this webpage? Haxx0r!"

[Revenge Seeker]

You've just sabotaged your own argument. You've made yourself look as thick as the many other people in the world who have met stupid people from a certain country and claimed that the whole country is thick as a result.

 

For example, if I was as thick as you've just made yourself look, I could now claim that America is full of morons because of you.

 

Now that I have my posting rights back, I must apologize for my earlier statement of stereolyzing all British based on one comment. I was wrong and only said that because of several recent comments toward me being a "redneck" or "common yank" whenever I said something different in past threads. In truth, as I've said before when I just joined this forum, I'm really interested in British culture and stuff. In fact my all time favorite novel is the Sherlock Holmes works by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

 

Congratulations.

 

You just won yourself a 3 day trip to anywhere other than Arnies.

 

Also, I wonder if the Tibetans think they're at war with China?

 

Oh, and I'm not mad at Stealth as one would probably assume. I've always respected your views on the other political threads because you were often willing to accept the other party's opinions. And I know as a mod you did the right thing since I broke several of the rules.

 

Again, I'm sorry. But still, I support what the Tibetans were doing and am really disappointed they're stopping.

 

Update - They've released photo's of the dead bodies of people shot by police. Since these photos are extremely disturbing, I'm not gonna post them but if anyone wants the URL, just PM me.

 

[Stealthbomber]

Incidentally, that was a genuine question...

 

To the Tibetans see themselves as being at war with china or invaded by china or are they just a bit bemused by the whole situation?

 

I mean, is there a moral difference to helping Kuwait out with the Iraqi invasion or are we just picking and choosing who we help on the basis of how big the bully is and how much of his dinner-money the victim can give us?

[Revenge Seeker]

To the Tibetans see themselves as being at war with china or invaded by china or are they just a bit bemused by the whole situation?

 

Can't answer that one because I'm not Tibetan but how I see it is they're angered at the whole occupation and wants them to leave. Don't know if calling it a war would be appropriate because a definition of war says 'armed' conflict but another definition just says a struggle.

 

I mean, is there a moral difference to helping Kuwait out with the Iraqi invasion or are we just picking and choosing who we help on the basis of how big the bully is and how much of his dinner-money the victim can give us?

 

Second reason makes the most sense. And I think its the same as why no one's helping/helped Chechnya from the Russians.

 

In all honesty, given the nature of communists (I would know, I was born/lived in a communist country), Tibet will never get their home back unless they go to war fully armed and that'd still be mighty hard to do with China being as strong as it is.

[tru_gunn]

Let's just hope something good comes out of this.

[The End]

Again, I'm sorry. But still, I support what the Tibetans were doing and am really disappointed they're stopping.

 

Update - They've released photo's of the dead bodies of people shot by police. Since these photos are extremely disturbing, I'm not gonna post them but if anyone wants the URL, just PM me.

 

 

seriously, what choice do they really have?

[mcnuggets]

Strike? Boycott Chinese stores? Revolt? Sabotage? Stick straps of dynamite to themselves and run into a Chinese barracks?

 

They're probably better off just waiting until the PRC implodes on itself though (which IMO will inevitably happen given its growing middle class who will demand more rights).

[Revenge Seeker]

They're probably better off just waiting until the PRC implodes on itself though (which IMO will inevitably happen given its growing middle class who will demand more rights).

 

That's based on the belief that communism will eventually be its own ruin; like the Soviet Union. I believe that too but its not looking like its going to happen. Unlike the Russians, alot of Chinese both in the PRC and outside show alot of patriotism for their red flag/government. We can only hope communism will die off . . . only hope.

 

The Dalai Lama threatened to step down if the riots got too out of hand. Haven't read today's reports but that's what he said yesterday. But I figure that's what a Buddhist monk is supposed to do, avoid the death of people as much as possible.

 

Its true that Tibet will probably be better off in many ways under China's "care" but foreign occupation is another issue and something I think alot of people resent. Just look at how well colonialism worked out despite how much they've made "primitive" countries "civilised".