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Wupjak

Western Arms M4 CQB-R

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Now that's what I call a review! Excellent. :)

 

(Obligatory rushing home to find the cardboard box drivel purposefully omitted)

Haha! Very sardonic, I love it.

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The reviews have got me excited about the WA M4 CQB. But the durability concerns me (or maybe only ppl with problems are posting?). What kind of gas are you guys using with your WA M4? I gather Wupjak's using propane/green gas with those FPS figures

and a mention of propane), but what about you, DogJumpJump? I'm guessing that WA being from Japan (and not having an 'export' model) that the specs were for HFC134a - and hopefully would be more durable then. Or would it merely prolonging the inevitable?

 

In Tokyo's BlackHole show in Jan, I managed to have a brief word with Tanio Koba and asked him if his C8 would take green/red gas. Apparently he is planning on having export models but the real change would be in the mags. The mags are apparently dual chambered and the chamber holding the gas would differ between the local JP (HFC134a) and export models (which can handle green/red). My Japanese is really ###### but I think he went to further detail that it's really more a regulator within that chamber that's tuned differently. Makes sense I guess to reduce manufacturing costs. But the kick on the C8 didn't really impress me that much.

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I'd literally trade all my guns for one (they'd add up to as much anyways). Only half-way through with the review but everyone's posting positive comments so I'm gonna give my share now before the technical comments gets in. Perfect review! Covered exactly all I was wondering about. :D

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actually, I mostly use 134a, but I have to warm up the magazine after 30rounds, room temperature about 22C

 

but I use green gas, I can shoot 1 full loaded magazine without problem, but it is too risky if any BB jam accident happened at auto shooting mode..

 

 

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On average you'll see 30ish shots before the cooldown kills it all together. I'd say the rof starts to slow down around 20 shots.

 

but I use green gas, I can shoot 1 full loaded magazine without problem

 

 

Gah! :blink:

 

Oh well, thanks for the info.

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1 mag every fill? Eh, worth it. :)

 

I'm gonna repost vtb's pictures from the other thread for easy reference in the future. Hope you don't mind, vtb!

 

Of course it's not a direct drop in =):

 

26.jpg

27.jpg

28.jpg

29.jpg

30.jpg

31.jpg

32.jpg

33.jpg

34.jpg

35.jpg

 

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Gah! :blink:

 

Oh well, thanks for the info.

 

Remember thats 30 if your going full auto.

 

This gun is dead accurate in my opinion, a longer tighter barrel will only make it even better. Single/Short Bursts are what this gun was made for, if you want to keep heads down look for a sewing machine :) if you want to tag them in the forehead at 100ft then this is the gun for you.

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Great review, thanks!

 

But the buffer tube is metal, isn't it? It is a bit shiny and looks plasticky, yes, but is still metal.

 

*American Football Referee Voice, with stadium echo* Upon further review, the Buffer Tube is Metal.

 

Oops.

 

How does it shoot, groupings and consistency over range?

 

Does it hook, hop inconsistently at ranges > 15m? Or is the hop ineffective?

 

Haven't had a chance to sit down and do a thorough range test. From my observations, however, standing offhand 160 foot torso-sized targets are in range.

 

See above. Hop up is very good. Keep the rubber clean. When it gets fouled, the vertical dispersion becomes affected as the hop up rubber isn't able to provide consistent spin. Side to side, there's not much dispersion.

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a sad accident came

 

my M4 jam during auto shooting

after I clean out all BB , I find part 48 damaged , and the losse parts had been found and clean it out

 

I found my M4 can continue to shoot without problem, but I guess the accuracy would be affacted

 

I would to fix this part 48, but don't know how to take it out... poor...

 

To get the hop up unit out:

 

Remove Upper Receiver from Lower

Remove RIS

Remove Barrel Nut

Slide Outer Barrel forward (not off, you'll damage the o-ring on the end of the inner barrel))

 

You will see the inner barrel going into the hop up unit. From here you can gently tug on the hop up unit to get it to slide forward and out of the upper receiver. Be VERY careful, there is a very small spring in the top/rear of the hop up that applies tension to the hop up arm. It will fly out if you aren't careful. Work in a very clean, small space if possible to keep the spring visible in case it flies out.

 

There is an o-ring on the front of the hop up chamber that rests in a slot on the inner barrel. Guide this o-ring out of the groove and move it forward a few cm. Then, slide the hop up adjustment collar forward. Pay very close attention to the small o-ring at the rear of the hop up opening. It fits around the hop up rubber at the chamber end, and sits inside the hop up unit. In fact, you can see the o-ring in its correct position in your second picture of the hop up unit with the piece broken off.

 

Once you split the hop up unit in half, you should be able to glue the broken part back on.

 

Good luck.

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Remember thats 30 if your going full auto.

 

This gun is dead accurate in my opinion, a longer tighter barrel will only make it even better. Single/Short Bursts are what this gun was made for, if you want to keep heads down look for a sewing machine :) if you want to tag them in the forehead at 100ft then this is the gun for you.

 

Yup, I know - full auto performance is all I have asked about......so far ;)

 

I look forwards to seeing the fps and accuracy results with the longer barrel.

 

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This gun is dead accurate in my opinion, a longer tighter barrel will only make it even better. Single/Short Bursts are what this gun was made for, if you want to keep heads down look for a sewing machine :) if you want to tag them in the forehead at 100ft then this is the gun for you.

Just my kind of a gun... Gotta have!

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Im looking at getting this..Does this suffer the same things as GBB pistols with there performance suffering at different temperatures?

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Im looking at getting this..Does this suffer the same things as GBB pistols with there performance suffering at different temperatures?

 

*Magic 8ball points to yes*

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Update -

 

Upper 160 or so degrees of the lip around the rear of the hop up unit are gone. My hop up looks like dogjumpjump's only the right half of the rear lip is gone, as well. I noticed the gun was jamming and couldn't really figure out why. BBs would fall out the end of the muzzle after a shot. I believe the core issue is having too much hop up dialed in and BBs not being able to feed past the hop up rubber, resulting in a jam.

 

More reason to keep the rubber clean.

 

I have to clean everything, install the M4 length barrel I got machined up yesterday (it's only a 6.08, not a tightbore) and see what happens.

 

I'm pretty discouraged at this development. A hop unit shouldn't hand-grenade with a jam. At this point I'm not sure whether the lip on the hop up unit contributes to the airseal created by the nozzle and little o-ring/hop rubber or not, but it's still a WTF moment. If performance or velocity is affected, I will likely shelve the thing for awhile until reinforced parts start showing up. I'm glad I could be the guinea pig and point out the things you should or shouldn't do with this gun, but it's no fun having to blaze the trail in a case like this.

 

Damned cool gun, but the kinks are starting to show up, I'm afraid.

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Wupjack your efforts have not been in vain! You've saved me some heart ache, and for that I thank you....

 

I have an idea that I'd like to share...

 

If Wupjack or any other WA owner could list down all the parts which are failing or appear to be substandard on the rifle, as a group we could get together and commission a workshop to manufacture a small batch of replacement parts...out of a decent material! I don't know, say tool steel!

 

It could be an Arnies group buy, and if enough people were interested the price could be considerably lower than if a single person did it on their own. I for one would love one of these rifles (perhpas two :P) but with the current run of bad parts..I'm severly put off! If I knew I could get long lasting heavy duty parts I'd buy one tomorrow.....literally!

 

I also think, as a group we could donate a set of parts to Wupjack for all the efforts he's put in so far in identifying the rifles weak points!

 

What do you guys think?

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Well, that's very kind, but I doubt it would happen. :) Back a ways in the news thread about this gun I mentioned emailing G&P about building reinforced parts. They said they planned to release parts in the future. Whatever that means. I don't mind paying to upgrade a gun like this. It'll be a few months (fingers crossed) before the whole guts of the gun are replicated in quality metal parts, though. I have other toys to play with in the meantime, hehe.

 

As for a parts list, basically, any part that moves or suffers an impact with every pull of the trigger is a candidate of some magnitude for replacement. In my order of importance:

 

Hop Up unit

Nozzle Assembly/Blowback chamber (if the hop up broke, the nozzle will likely do so as well since it's made from the same plastic)

Bolt Stop

Bolt Carrier

Trigger and Hammer assemblies

Firing block

Valve Lock-out lever (confirmed in progress)

 

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I understand that it may be better to wait for G&P to do something, but if I had one of these rifles, a companies "we plan to do something in future" would be a bit.....how should I phrase this...distressing for me!

 

Imagine if we could get these parts made, unconstrained by manufacturing volume issues and bean counters telling us its possibly not viable!

 

Even if say 4 or 5 people were interested it'd be cheaper than one person doing it on their own!

 

If someone can find a suitable machinist / workshop I will put my name forward as a definate to getting those parts produced. Obviously if the parts cost a $1000 each then its not a good idea!, but I doubt it would cost that much.....

 

Come on people....are we Airsofters or Barbie doll window lickers!

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Interestingly, what Ing is suggesting has already happened quite a bit in paintball. Innovative players began producing their own custom parts which mainstream companies eventually purchased and began to sell. The Vortex mod for the Tippmann A-5's cyclone feed is one example. Quick exhaust valves for autocockers, A-5s and other guns trying to achieve high rates of fire were also first added by players and are now sold by companies or added to complete guns.

 

So it is definitely possible for a few daring players to make big contributions with their own innovations.

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Well, I'll tell you what....if anyone is interested (worldwide offer :D) then PM me or let me know, and I'll find a workshop willing to do those parts. If enough people are interested I'll even post the quote on this thread...who knows, if its not to bad then surely its better than waiting for G&P to do something.....

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Mine is on its way to me. I'd be interested too.

 

Quick question for those who've done some dissassembly/reassembly to their WA M4s... I just received my Ambi-selector for autos... how hard is it to get the current selector out and a new one back in? Will have to take the entire trigger group out? Or can I simply open up the receiver, lift a detent spring pull out the old selector and push in the new one? The latter suggestion was told to me by a Ranger buddy... but that seems to apply to RS M4s and I don't know how it relates to the WA.

 

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