Wayneard3413 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 All the guy who have used these say they far outshadow the PRI's (not to mention retail is only $25 compared to almost $100 for the Gas Buster) Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 That said it's NOT a gas buster, it has no gas channel built in. If you run a real SBR, i.e in the 10" range, it's a MUST have. Link to post Share on other sites
Wayneard3413 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The guys I mentioned are actually all running SBR's (between 10.5-14-5) Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'll stick with PRI until proven otherwise. But I want one of those on my MRP setup. Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Wait, wait, wait Thats the magic channel right there, for $75 bux Dremel time Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 No, it runs underneath the charging handle, and vents the excess gas out and to the right of the shooter (it's not fun if you're a lefty). Trust me there's a LOT of excess gas coming back at you with an SBR. Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well at least that makes more sense price wise Still seems like your gonna get raped soot wise by *suitcase* flying out the bolt area Of course im jealous Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Note to self: If SBR'ing, SBR a piston. ® Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Note to self: If SBR'ing, SBR a piston. ® Doesn't matter, pistons can be even more unreliable and messy, because of back pressure. It's a no win. Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Doesn't matter, pistons can be even more unreliable and messy, because of back pressure. It's a no win. how so? I think you are confusing between a SBR and a suppressed gun. to address the reliability issue. while i think that the increase parts of a piston gun along with "carrier tilt" can theoretically increase failure/malfunction rates, it has been shown that the latest generation LWRC and HK piston weapon systems have proven themselves both in terms of round count and combat use. Anecdotally, there have been many PWS retrofit kit piston guns that have had 1000+ malfunction free round counts. messy? piston guns simply redirect the fouling to another place on the weapon, typically, the junction between the piston and the push rod. from an users perspective, i much rather clean the 2-3 piston parts than opening my receiver and cleaning my BCG. furthermore, being a left handed shooter, i don't enjoy fouling in my face. typically, SBRs experience DECREASED back pressure, which is why you have short stroking and extraction problems. Noveske markets their FirePig muzzle device to not only direct muzzle blast forward but also augment back pressure for SBR systems conversely, Suppressed guns experience INCREASED back pressure, which is why you have cyclic rate and bolt unlocking/extraction issues. in addition, the increase back pressure also results in increased fouling. the PRI may address shooter discomfort by redirecting the fouling to the other side of the gun, but it does nothing for messiness that will result in your receiver and BCG. a Suppressed SBR will overall generate INCREASED back pressure, as the suppressor really does generate quite a bit of pressure via the baffles within its body. a piston system will operate regardless of INCREASED back pressure, as the excess gas is simply vented. the piston system still needs some back pressure, but the back pressure generated by a SBR typically exceeds this requirement. the beauty of the piston is that, conceptually, the bolt is cycled at a consistent and optimum rate virtually irregardless of what the back pressure that is generated. many gun experts agree that a piston-operated SBR and/or suppressed gun will result in an overall MORE reliable gun. if you are running a nonSBR AR-system, i feel that the smaller benefits of a piston system does not justify the increased cost. unless of course, you are already rich. Link to post Share on other sites
Wayneard3413 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 For a really interesting long term report on LWRCI's piston guns check out this months issue of SWAT... Pat Rogers had his students put 60,000 rounds through three guns (one a 10.5" SBR) over 18months and documented every step of the process Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I've already read it. I know that the one-piece bolt is (almost) complete, not quite to production stage (we'll find out how close they are when I get mine), but I've not heard anything on the op rod springs being redesigned. They might already have been but LWRC is planning to have a repair kit available off of their website, shortly, anyway (and I will be picking up one of them before I head out to OR). Anyway, I thought that most of the problems documented were relatively minor and the major ones are solve-able by either preventative maintenance (they only cleaned the guns twice during those times), going away from vendor parts (which LWRCI has done), or simply re-designing a spring (the op-rod spring). Like the author, though, I wish they could have gotten the chance to more thoroughly test the nitrided cold hammer-forged barrels. Thanks to the article I, as a proud future-owner of an LWRCI, I am confident that I have made the correct choice. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Just ordered 2000x rounds of Federal XM193. Ouch, brutal. Link to post Share on other sites
The Crunchy Bunny Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Well thanks for that kick in the balls of my self esteem haha... But I would agree, if your not in a very hot, sandy place filled with smelly people then a solid tan paintjob probably doesn't make much sense But......But...... it looks cool. And besides, is breaking up the outline on a 10.5" SBR really neccesary based on what SBR's are used for? I mean, your not gonna be hiding in the woods with a Ghillie Suit and a 10.5" SBR are we? Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 FDE anodized parts are a fad. Also breaking up shapes is a great thing, even in arid environments, as a black gun even at a long distance is an easy thing to spot. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I doubt it's a fad: Big Army is no longer interested in any new weapon systems in any color but FDE. Anyway. Thinking of running a TT Mini-MAV with four FastMag GenIIs, Camelbak, Safariland 568 with a Galco couble-mag carrier for the carbine course. Somehow, I can't help but think that my Colt 1911/18 will get stared at (hmm... CTG?) and/or rust. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I doubt it's a fad: Big Army is no longer interested in any new weapon systems in any color but FDE. Anyway. Thinking of running a TT Mini-MAV with four FastMag GenIIs, Camelbak, Safariland 568 with a Galco couble-mag carrier for the carbine course. Somehow, I can't help but think that my Colt 1911/18 will get stared at (hmm... CTG?) and/or rust. Not sure how much I'd go buck wild on gear yet. It's taken me years to finally figure out a rig that works well, and that's by trial and error. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Oh, I've got a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. I've been working with gear for a while, too, complete with the proverbial closet of disused gear. I like my Safariland holster, I like my Galco mag pouches, I like the full-size MAV (but I don't need something that size for four magazines), my CamelBak works well, and I figure the FastMags probably are just what the doctor ordered for a course like this. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 You won't need the camelbak. You'll be 50 ft from the cars. lol Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 You never know when someone might decide to nuke Portland. And then we'll be all on our own and running away. And you'll be thanking me for bringing my CamelBak! Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 wow, and I thought my self-rationalizations were bad. Think I know how I'm gonna setup the 2nd SBR: Larue 11" Gooseneck, Larue Stealth upper, and Larue 12" barrel with an AAC Blackout. Link to post Share on other sites
Wayneard3413 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I would keep the Camelback... Doesn't take long to get dehydrated Gear wise I can't decide if I want to run a chest rig (MAV or Eagle LE FB) or a Redi-Mag and couple of rifle mags on my belt I was thinking of picking up one of the Eagle M4-M9 FB pouches but just heard that they are discontinuing them... Oh well Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'll just be using my RRV and a basic first line with my Sig. Link to post Share on other sites
Wayneard3413 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm still not sure how many mags I want to carry either... I know most classes only require 4, but then that leads to where do I want to stash my extra mags at and having to leave the line to back fill my pouches Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 They'll have a staging area, I'll have 4 on my vest, 1 in the gun. Same goes with my sidearm. I wouldn't worry, not everyone is gonna be rocking tactical gear. Link to post Share on other sites
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