Uber Knifing!

[Dope on a Rope]

Rubber knives i feel are fine though. Ideally, i would like to see knife kills actually having to be performed as if you could have killed them, for exaple a fake throat slice or stab in the chest/back. However, i can understand people not taking to kindly to this, and they would probably shout out, getting you killed anyway.

 

Dom, do you have any martial arts training ? Stage fighting ? Ever been trained on how to use a knife for real ?

 

I might suggest that the answer may be be no judging by the above quote.

 

If the answer is no, then I'd be very worried about having you any where near my jugular vein pal !!

[Punkypink]

I think they're a bit silly, to be honest.

 

I can understand why people want them, but it's only going to end badly. Give 'em an inch, they take a mile.

 

First you have people tapping each other with them. That's fine, but why can't you do that with the end of a gun, or a finger?

you really prefer being prodded with a heavy solid metal flash hider, than a soft rubber knife? All that about training knives being "heavy" is boll**ks mate. If I ever go down to worthing or dorking or whichever EAG u play at, I'll let u have a look and then you tell me straight to my face that they're more dangerous than the end of an AEG or a finger that someone also uses to dig his nose/finger his bum/prod a swine with.

 

All the resistance against rubber knive kills, and the associated logic reminds me of people who just have something against gay/black/whatever-else-you-can-think-of people but who can't justify it and come up with the most absurd reasons they can think of.

 

Being sneaky enough to tap someone on the shoulder shows considerable skill, so why the knife ?

Same reason why going airsofting requires nothing more than an AEG, but some people go with more than one gun.

 

As for rubber knifers who say knife kills need to be a slit to the throat and what not, thats just as silly ok, unless yr game also says that bb hits to the fingers don't count as outright kills, theres no reason why tapping on the shoulder with a rubber knife shouldn't count as a kill. Not having the "I gotta go for the jugular!" mentality would probably make a lot of folks feel easier about being knife killed!

[greg]

1, Come on one of my bushcraft courses, I'll show you how to survive with just a knife, maybe just an axe (Gransfors do some very nice ones).

 

2, Back on topic, re: vegetation, one site I go to has section that are heavily overgrown and I take a pair of secateurs out with me for 'foliage duty' much easier than using a knife (especially when there are brambles about).

 

3, Of the players I've met using knives, if they tried to knife kill me I would 'defend' myself, sorry Greg, doesn't make me a sad individual - it's reflection of those players - I've mentioned themm in previous threads -

 

4, one player's knife kill bordered on battery ! In that case the law allows self defense.

 

5, Being sneaky enough to tap someone on the shoulder shows considerable skill, so why the knife ?

1, I know what can be done with a full tang combat/survival knife & a little improvisation thank you. But you are on a skirmish, not a potential 'combat/survival situation'. So I don't agree that a this type of knife is required. Go to any building site & see what can be done without a knife.

 

2, My point exactly. In this case, Felco beats Ka-bar.

 

3, As already stated, I also agree with this, only this is airsoft, not all in wrestling. Nothing sad here.

 

4, As said, the 'rules' for contact kills should be agreed at the start of the game, so that it doesn't get out of hand. No one should be going to a skirmish & get battered. Join the fight club if that's for you.

 

5, Quite right, to a degree, it doesn't matter 'what' is used to signal a contact kill. My knife kills usually involve drawing my rubber, sneaking up on the victim & whispering some thing like 'fraid your dead pal' in their ear while holding the rubber in a clearly visible way. The reaction varies, but no one has ever freaked. The rubber knife just adds to the suspension of disbelief side of airsoft. You could shoot some one with a gun that looks like a pea-shooter (like paintball), but you choose to go for a R.I.F. You could skirmish in comfy clothes, but the majority go for military type stuff. It's all about the look. Note I say look, not function. As previously stated, I do not think a 'real' combat knife has any place in a skirmish. For exactly the same reasons you wouldn't want real guns.

 

 

I believe that the game should suit the players. If the rules at a site don't suit you, have a word with the organizers. If they wont listen, move on. Voting with feet is always a good 'un.

 

 

Greg.

[Punkypink]

Take away knife killz and airsoft won't be this epic anymoar:

 

[Adiventure]

Wake up!

 

You need the appropriate tools to do a job well.

 

Sure you can dig a fox hole with enough time & a ka-bar, but a folding shovel will make it hapen a lot quicker. You wont be as tired & you wont be left with blisters on your hands & a blunt knife.

 

Carry the 'combat knife' into a situation that needs it. Er,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,combat? But not airsoft.

 

 

Greg.

But what if Zee Germans attack? It would be a slaughter, unless I had my trusty knife.

[L4byr1nth]

I was thinking more plastic knives than rubber ones, but same thing.

 

I agree with D.O.A.R., I'd rather have someone tap me on the shoulder than get carried away with a fake knife, and risk my wrath - thus spoiling the game for everyone else.

 

I just don't see why you can't use a finger instead. Is there a reason? Fingers are dirty doesn't count! That's about the lamest excuse evar...

 

Ben.

[greg]

But what if Zee Germans attack? It would be a slaughter, unless I had my trusty knife.

Actually, you may have a point there.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

I was thinking more plastic knives than rubber ones, but same thing.

 

I agree with D.O.A.R., I'd rather have someone tap me on the shoulder than get carried away with a fake knife, and risk my wrath - thus spoiling the game for everyone else.

 

I just don't see why you can't use a finger instead. Is there a reason? Fingers are dirty doesn't count! That's about the lamest excuse evar...

 

Ben.

Fingers.

 

 

Greg.

[Punkypink]

I was thinking more plastic knives than rubber ones, but same thing.

 

I agree with D.O.A.R., I'd rather have someone tap me on the shoulder than get carried away with a fake knife, and risk my wrath - thus spoiling the game for everyone else.

 

I just don't see why you can't use a finger instead. Is there a reason? Fingers are dirty doesn't count! That's about the lamest excuse evar...

 

Ben.

Wtf if I would get carried away with a rubber knife then a finger is not gonna be any different. My skirmish knife kills are ALL taps. You know what? I don't give a hoot. If I'm tagging you I'm doing it with a rubber knife. You just want people to touch you for cheap thrills.

 

And no, rubber knives and plastic knives are about as same as your punto rally car and a WRC car have in common. Dude seriously if you haven't seen one close up, don't say things like that. Theres not many people I respect on the forums to begin with, don't lower the count on that please.

 

Come to think of it, my 1st ever knife kill, and majority of my knife kills were at EAG Epsom. From that I'd always gotten the idea that EAGers were a cool bunch with a good skirmish sense of humor. Don't tell me that the reality is that EAGers from other EAG sites are namby pamby, cuz that'd be a cryin' shame.

[greg]

Come to think of it, my 1st ever knife kill, and majority of my knife kills were at EAG Epsom. From that I'd always gotten the idea that EAGers were a cool bunch with a good skirmish sense of humor. Don't tell me that the reality is that EAGers from other EAG sites are namby pamby, cuz that'd be a cryin' shame.

 

 

Greg.

[Fightingchook]

 

at our games... and you want something cut... you have to ask a dozen people if they have a knife and then you may fine a pocket knife or multi tool if your lucky. real steel knifes are very very rarely seen in our airsoft.

 

if you hadn't read the rules i posted earlier...

 

9.3 Attacker must gently use his hand, gun part or rubber knife. (NO real steel!)

 

in the past... i have taped someone on the shoulder... and the just wondered of and kept playing... not realizing that i was enemy and had killed them. although i should have been more clear in relaying the fact... "dude, your dead"

 

where as if i had a rubber knife then and used it... there would be no misunderstanding.

i have also "gently" used my gun barrel and this also relays the message quite clearly.

 

My group and I play 5 or 6 times a month... over the last 5 years... and our rules have been refined and evolved to make the games more fun.

 

if its not fun... we wouldn't be doing it.

FC

[Kyrian_Zenda]

Come to think of it, my 1st ever knife kill, and majority of my knife kills were at EAG Epsom.

'Tis a real shame they didn't give us those "Bang one, bang 'em all" patches, think we deserved 'em...

[Dom S]

Dom, do you have any martial arts training ? Stage fighting ? Ever been trained on how to use a knife for real ?

 

I might suggest that the answer may be be no judging by the above quote.

 

If the answer is no, then I'd be very worried about having you any where near my jugular vein pal !!

 

Yes, i do actually. I did Judo for 7 years to an international level, travelling abroad to fight and winning silver at the national competitions thus becoming second in the country for my weight group... but thats beside the point.

 

The point is, i dont believe this actually matters at all. personally, i would never use a knife, preferring simple tap kills, with my hand or the stock of my gun. But i dont see the problem with someone tapping you with a knife, if they so chose. This is of course assuming it isnt a real knife. Real knives for knife kills are a no, on any occasion. it would be all to easy to make a mistake...

[Punkypink]

'Tis a real shame they didn't give us those "Bang one, bang 'em all" patches, think we deserved 'em...

Hell yea we bloody earned it lol. You should tell Ben just how flexible our rubber knives are. He seems to have some sort of phobia against black rubber things. Bad past experience involving a soho dungeon perhaps?

 

Real knives for knife kills are a no, on any occasion. it would be all to easy to make a mistake...

Hell bloody no. If the dude jumps out of surprise he could be hurt.

 

Anyways I'm trying to get an actual CRKT ultima so that i could use the sheath it comes with, with the ultima trainer. The bloody rubber knife is so soft i am actually more worried about damaging it if i tried to carry it without a sheath to protect it. Anyone who worries about getting hurt by that, seriously needs to GTFO airsoft.

[Dom S]

what do you guys and gals think about bayonets? (obviously rubber ones). Do you think this would be more or less dangerous than a knife?

 

Personally im inclined to think it would actualy be safer, for both parties. The attacker because they are slighlty further away, so point blank reflex shots wont hurt quite as much. They also look awesome IMO. As from the defender's point of view, they arent going to have some attacker trying to grab them or show off with some silly move, potentially getting people hurt, instead they get a gentle tap or poke with a rubber knife

[Punkypink]

rubber bayonets? same as rubber knives. I honestly cannot say I've had people trying to pull off fancy moves with rubber knives. It's always been a tap and thats it. If someone feels inclined to pull off a fancy move with a rubber knife, chances are with a rubber bayonet he'd get carried away and butt-stroke someone in the head as well. If you're not that sort, then it doesn't matter if its a rubber knife or bayonet.

[Fin]

My knife kills have just been tapps on the back of the tac vest, i'd never actually jab somebody with a rubber knife (and i dont believe anybody has actually been laying into somebody with a rubber knife jabbing at them hard or whatever). Thinking about it my flash hider is more pointy and less flexible than my knife (The original M16 duckbill one)...

 

As for bayonets on guns i'd love one (cant find one in stock for my m16 ) and would probably attach one for effect in game. But i dont think i would have enough control over it to tap somebody with it (would be quite hard to do as well with it attached to a gun thats nearly 3 foot long), and there would be a lot more force behind it if something went wrong (unlike when you have the knife in hand). However either way and in all cases rubber knifes do less damage than hosing somebody at point blank, i've never herd of one story of a knife doing any injury let alone anything drawing blood.

 

Edit: My knife is my backup, all my pistols are broken and i have nothing else worth dragging down the hill to the game site for 3 hours

[Mat]

I'd have to say no to bayonets, with a training knife in your hand you can pull your blow, target your blow, far better than sticking it on the end of a few kg of gun, also with the fighting that I have done in LARP any stabbing is strictly verboten for safety reason.

 

I carry that over to my fencing and fight sabre as it has the least stabbing (I don't want to get into bad habits) and also into airsoft, a slash is enough... even with a cold steel training knife you could still badly injure someone if you stabbed them with any degree of force. A slash is far easier to control, in airsoft a hand on the shoulder and a phyrep (physical representation) is even easier and that is all I think is needed.

 

I honestly can't think of any situation, other than a stage fight with people I knew had also been trained with swords and knives and that I trusted implicitly, where I'd think a mock bayonet attached to a gun for fighting would be safe... to be precise, even then I don't think it would be safe, but we'd of lessened the risks sufficiently for us to consider it.

 

Would I do it on an airsoft field, probably never.

[amateurstuntman]

Well, I agree that a bayonet has more potential to cause a real injury than a training knife.

If you "stab" somebody with a bayonet there is a chance you can follow through and smack the bloke with the muzzle device, that is bad.

Don't forget that a rubber bayonet will have a rubbish mount to the gun and if it snaps off you will be hitting the bloke with a nasty bit of metal.

 

However, I don't think my cold steel training knife can cause any kind of serious injury.

If you are at airsoft everyone will have eye protection on but even then I present this photo:

 

 

Now, my wife isn't the best with technology and I had to pose for that photo for a couple of minutes, no damage.

 

 

Finally, pinky, if you search for a guy called bozza on the other forum you will find a guy that can make a scabbard or holster for anything, up to and including a full set of webbing.

Tell him I sent you.

 

 

*edit* forgot the picture

[Punkypink]

Having actually been trained in bayonet fighting, I'd agree with the above sentiments that it is harder to control one, since you're having a lot more mass swinging around. But not excessively so, but it certainly isn't safer than using a good ol rubber knife!

 

Ah ASM, which other um...?

[meppie]

Made one knife-kill and progressed to the second person. First person decided to scream "HIT!" from the top of his longs alerting the second person. No knife-kill but a bang-kill instead. Second person disagreed and tried to shoot me in the face. Really hated to do it but I reported them to the marshalls. Sorry @ss losers, I do not like that kind of people.

 

I do not care if somebody taps me on the shoulder with a finger, a hand or a knife. Just walk away and take your hit, in silence. Period. My mistake that he/she gets that close to me, why should I then spoil the fun of the player that took me out?

 

TS - nice run through for OpFor. Good to see you are playing with a lot of people that play the game with honour.

 

Next of all. Take you hit and if you disagree with it you can start a discussion with a marshall or with that player in de Safezone. Never ever start a discussion about being hit or not in/during the game.

 

For those for where your kill ratio is your goal in life for that day ... why are you playing airsoft? You should play paintball or laser-quest. Or do you play airsoft because it is easier to cheat?

[Punkypink]

Next of all. Take you hit and if you disagree with it you can start a discussion with a marshall or with that player in de Safezone. Never ever start a discussion about being hit or not in/during the game.

Also, trying to win a "discussion" in/during the game by shooting someone in the face as an conscious act is not very nice. I don't mind getting shot in the face if someone got surprised, but if someone's being a sore loser by shooting someone in the face after he's already had knowledge of the other person being there and already been tagged or bang-killed, hes gonna get reported to the marshalls immediately, and he can start packing up.

 

Meppie, what did the marshalls do to that loser?

[cafemondo]

Liked the videos, shows how unaware people can be to a intruder running up through the squad.

 

Does making a knife kill mean that you are giving out permission for the opfor to be able to shoot you at near point blank range? Ive not had the pleasure of being knife killed yet but had a few bang kills ignored and had to go for sudden death shootout at very close quarters.

 

[Punkypink]

I'd imagine if there was a "no close range shots" rule then no even if he ignores bang rules u can't shoot him. However you could certainly tag him, or pull out yr own rubber knife and take him out. Or, if hes obviously cheating, report him to the marshals. Esp if hes ignoring a few bang kills shouldn't be a problem getting several witnesses then.

[meppie]

Meppie, what did the marshalls do to that loser?

Gave him a warning. He could continue the game. These guys went for headshots only and started laughing real loud when they hit somebody in the face which made him bleed. Young kids, just 18 or so who had the computergame attitude. We had some violent thoughts but decided with a large group to go home ourselves at 15:00. So the last 90 minutes only these 12 guys were left. We are not going to visit that site in the near future again. Hopefully the marshalls got the message.