mimesis Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 OK, so what I'm taking away from this is that pre-production models were using Ares parts or even an Ares gb for design and development purposes, but that the final Magpul version of the gun to be released to the public is going to use Magpul's own or at least superior internal parts made by some OEM to Magpul's specs. And so, when Frank opened the ASGI pre-production example they have there and showed us the guts, the results are misleading to say the least. Am I warm??? Tepid? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Hate to be 'that guy,' but please don't post stuff like that until you have some way of backing up your claim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tacitus Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) Hate to be 'that guy,' but please don't post stuff like that until you have some way of backing up your claim. He's been pretty clear about the fact that he's speculating, not claiming. No need to back up speculation if it's presented as such. Edited July 10, 2010 by Tacitus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 His words: Hate to be 'that guy' but that's not what the final product is going to look like internally. Pictures and further explanation when I can Why would PTS shop around a product that isn't the finished one, and present it as such? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tacitus Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 @ PlasticMag: Your original post looks like you're responding to Mimesis, not Scuffer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) Why would PTS shop around a product that isn't the finished one, and present it as such? I'm assuming you were responding to Scuffer, not me. To try to answer your last question, speculatively, it's been made pretty clear that the few examples of the Masada in circulation were pre-production models, and people have gone out of their way to stress that they don't necessarily represent what will be offered to the public. If Tim of ASGI stresses that so much, just imagine how much the people from Magpul stressed that to Tim (as these things always get watered down when they're repeated). So, in brief, I don't really believe that anybody was presenting what we've seen so far as the "finished one". In the meantime, Magpul is achieving considerable success in whipping up a groundswell of expectation and excitement in anticipation of the eventual release, whenever that comes. This is textbook stuff from MBA advertising 101. @ Scuffer. I repeat: am I warm? Tepid? Cold? Edited July 10, 2010 by mimesis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reaper16 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Hate to be that guy plastic mag, But HE got the preproduction model masada for review iirc, you didn't so he knows more than you I would think. Either way why don't we all quit B****ing about release dates, I'm glad they didnt just shove it out the door, as the saying goes anything worth having is worth waiting for. Noone here is depending on this for their lives (I hope)and complaining here doesn't help. Alsoo I Lol'd HARD at: the sights are so good you don't need a scope that is all reaper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beardy1975 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Fantastic looking gun, just wondering whether or not we've got to the bottom of the parts issue on a production model? Is it going to be Ares parts or something else? Beardy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
league 4 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Hate to be that guy plastic mag, But HE got the preproduction model masada for review iirc, you didn't so he knows more than you I would think. Either way why don't we all quit B****ing about release dates, I'm glad they didnt just shove it out the door, as the saying goes anything worth having is worth waiting for. Noone here is depending on this for their lives (I hope)and complaining here doesn't help. Alsoo I Lol'd HARD at: the sights are so good you don't need a scope that is all reaper People said the same thing about the VFC EGLM and it's a POS. The Ares is better in every way except weight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scuffer Posted July 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Yer guys, you are right - the ones that both I had a couple of months ago and the one that ASGI have now are pre-production models. While they are very close to the final product there will be some differences (internally), things such as the finish on the parts and possibly the type of piston/cyclinder/gears etc. I'll post some pictures when I'm able to which should explain what I mean. Also if anybody wants to call me out on what I'm saying, go back to the start of the thread, read and try again. Additionally anybody else find it funny that the 2 guys (me + ASGI dude) that have got hold of these so far to review them, are on different sides of the world and both called Tim? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beardy1975 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Probably a slightly newb question but are these available yet, not in the pre-production models? Interested to see the internals differences. Beardy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
league 4 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Probably a slightly newb question but are these available yet, not in the pre-production models? Interested to see the internals differences. Beardy About 2 minutes of reading the thread would easily answer your question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 I don't think he's worried about that, he's very unsuccesfully attempting to raise his post count Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 While they are very close to the final product there will be some differences (internally), things such as the finish on the parts and possibly the type of piston/cyclinder/gears etc. If they're still pinning down the exact specs of some of the internals, that means that general availability is still weeks and weeks (and weeks) away, after the first production run and the inevitable time for distribution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Yep. That's why I don't get these rumored changes. If you're announcing that it'll be out, and sending out production samples, that generally indicates that you've settled on a 99% finished product, at least if you're running a smart business and campaign. I'm a marketing/public relations major, it's not rocket science. Then again, this is Magpul PTS. What's another 4 months on top of how long the wait has been? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 The gun is on the production floor and from what I heard some are already being shipped out to the EU. They hit a slight snag with the US market because US customs has gotten extremely strict with markings (they don't care if it's licensed or not) and taking issue with things such as "Made in the USA" markings when the gun is in fact not made in the USA. So PTS are having to get some of the first batch re-traded for the US market. This may or may not be an issue for people ordering single guns from HK, but it most definitely is an issue for the distributors who import hundreds of guns at a time. The only reason why preproduction samples were given out was to allow the distributors a look at an upcoming product and to build public interest and momentum for it. But PTS really didn't want the product to be thoroughly photographed and reviewed until the final units rolled off the production line. The companies that have done so have acted without the approval of PTS from what I understand. The internals are all finalized. The samples that are out there right now were handed out back in January. They've since locked everything else down including parts used and finishes etc. While the exact finishes and a few components of the samples may be different from the final piece, the overall setup is still the same from what I recall. While it may look like an Ares, it is also entirely possible that they had a look at every single gear box out there, figured out which work for them, and took elements that they liked from all those as well as a few of their own for their version. Ares most definitely has a unique design, but I certainly find it plausible that the MASADA Gearbox is derived from it but not necessarily made by Ares themselves. Who knows. I think people are getting a little too stuck on if it's made by Ares or not, and should instead be focusing on if the QC and design is going to be alright. Factories are capable of making things to various different specs and different QC's. A small design tweak can make a huge difference. A lot of it comes down to the client's budget and needs/expectations. If it were made by Ares' OEM (which I still don't know one way or the other), that doesn't mean it will be the same quality as all Ares products. So people can speculate all day long, but until the final pieces come out, it might be a good idea to reserve final judgement until we all have something concrete to work with. Basically, just remember that this "review" and others are observations based off 6 month old samples. A lot may or may not change during that time. The MSRP is still slated to be $450 for the default configuration (14.5" barrel, polymer handguard, and fixed stock), and I doubt the price will be changing anymore. Accessories will be rolled out gradually instead of all at once as initially planned. The first accessory most likely will be the railed handguard and then the folding stock, and then others after. This is all current as of a couple days ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Ok, that makes much more sense. Thank you for the clarification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKingBigNuts Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 The gun is on the production floor and from what I heard some are already being shipped out to the EU. They hit a slight snag with the US market because US customs has gotten extremely strict with markings (they don't care if it's licensed or not) and taking issue with things such as "Made in the USA" markings when the gun is in fact not made in the USA. So PTS are having to get some of the first batch re-traded for the US market. This may or may not be an issue for people ordering single guns from HK, but it most definitely is an issue for the distributors who import hundreds of guns at a time. The only reason why preproduction samples were given out was to allow the distributors a look at an upcoming product and to build public interest and momentum for it. But PTS really didn't want the product to be thoroughly photographed and reviewed until the final units rolled off the production line. The companies that have done so have acted without the approval of PTS from what I understand. The internals are all finalized. The samples that are out there right now were handed out back in January. They've since locked everything else down including parts used and finishes etc. While the exact finishes and a few components of the samples may be different from the final piece, the overall setup is still the same from what I recall. While it may look like an Ares, it is also entirely possible that they had a look at every single gear box out there, figured out which work for them, and took elements that they liked from all those as well as a few of their own for their version. Ares most definitely has a unique design, but I certainly find it plausible that the MASADA Gearbox is derived from it but not necessarily made by Ares themselves. Who knows. I think people are getting a little too stuck on if it's made by Ares or not, and should instead be focusing on if the QC and design is going to be alright. Factories are capable of making things to various different specs and different QC's. A small design tweak can make a huge difference. A lot of it comes down to the client's budget and needs/expectations. If it were made by Ares' OEM (which I still don't know one way or the other), that doesn't mean it will be the same quality as all Ares products. So people can speculate all day long, but until the final pieces come out, it might be a good idea to reserve final judgement until we all have something concrete to work with. Basically, just remember that this "review" and others are observations based off 6 month old samples. A lot may or may not change during that time. The MSRP is still slated to be $450 for the default configuration (14.5" barrel, polymer handguard, and fixed stock), and I doubt the price will be changing anymore. Accessories will be rolled out gradually instead of all at once as initially planned. The first accessory most likely will be the railed handguard and then the folding stock, and then others after. This is all current as of a couple days ago. Okay a few questions here. 1:Whats wrong with ARES Internals? arent they a high quality company? 2:This may be Very hard for you,and if so please dont awnser,but think you can give us a rough ETA on SOME of the Acciscores? 3:on the sights, are the blades/post removeable like a M16's?,Im just DIEing to drop in some Trijiicon's on this hot potato 4:what were the trades like on your sample? 5:Thanks for the help and i apologize if im a inconvience Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 1:Whats wrong with ARES Internals? arent they a high quality company? Some people don't like them. The general consensus is that Ares which was the OEM for STAR, sell STAR products at a reduced price, but also a reduced QC. I have an Ares gun. Still don't know 100% how I feel about it. And let me repeat, I don't know for certain if the Masada's internals are Ares or just very similar in design. So I'm not going to comment anymore on Ares internals as it could still have absolutely nothing to do with this product. 2:This may be Very hard for you,and if so please dont awnser,but think you can give us a rough ETA on SOME of the Acciscores? What I said in the last post is as much as I know. 3:on the sights, are the blades/post removeable like a M16's?,Im just DIEing to drop in some Trijiicon's on this hot potato Don't know. But at a guess I'd say probably. 4:what were the trades like on your sample? I didn't get a sample. I've handled plenty but don't own one. I will be getting a production one once they start distributing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beardy1975 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 I don't think he's worried about that, he's very unsuccesfully attempting to raise his post count Nice to see that contributors are hounded for posting even when they miss some information, must be nice to be as perfect as you chap. Beardy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) It gets tiring with all the applause, but I was grouchy the other day so I apologize. Edited July 11, 2010 by spetsnazdave87 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beardy1975 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 <br />It gets tiring with all the applause, but I was grouchy the other day so I apologize.<br /><br /><br /><br /> No hard feelings chap. Beardy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 No worries mate, I hunted down a battery for you in the galil thread as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beardy1975 Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 No worries mate, I hunted down a battery for you in the galil thread as well Cheers chap, I really like the Galil but was worried about that battery fit issue . . . if only I could get enough pennies together to get one of those AND the Masada! Beardy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CStahl Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 ASGI has their ACR's on pre-order now. http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=6859 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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