News - Shootings in Cumbria

[WhiskeyJuliet]

This is all so terribly sad, and it shocks us so much more given that these events are so rare in the UK. I have suspicions that it will be discovered that he was a repressed loner with deeply rooted issues who just snapped. Apparently the argument started between him and a few other cabbies about them taking people from the back of the rank. It's possible that all those other people treated him with little respect and the only way he felt he was able to take power back was to do what he did. Thats often the case in "family annihilation" murders, and seems to be a pretty common motive for murder in general. Pitious, patheic powerlessness makes people do crazy, evil things.

 

I'm not going to comment on how this may affect us as skirmishers yet. But I will say, as I would at any time mass murders or no, keep your RIF's locked up and out of sight and don't make your interest in the sport overly public. It's better if we enjoy our pastime quietly and under the radar of the ignorant and alarmist public.

 

My sympathies are with the victims of this tragedy.

 

W_J.

[GuzziHero]

VERY suspiciously timed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10219000.stm

 

If you're a parent and your kid buys a bright orange BB gun, most would go "Meh", some would throw it away, some would go back to the stop and get the money back... very very very few would go to the police AND the media.

 

This looks suspiciously like some of our old MAG type friends exploiting the tragic events yesterday.

[Chimpy]

VERY suspiciously timed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10219000.stm

 

If you're a parent and your kid buys a bright orange BB gun, most would go "Meh", some would throw it away, some would go back to the stop and get the money back... very very very few would go to the police AND the media.

 

This looks suspiciously like some of our old MAG type friends exploiting the tragic events yesterday.

 

Or it's just coincidence until shown to be otherwise.

 

Also you are making a lot of assumptions about how the story came to the attention of the media.

[GuzziHero]

Will you be saying that if MAG are cheering after a new round of RIF restrictions?

 

You know enough of my background to know that I am instantly suspicious whenever the possibility of civil rights being lost is an issue.

[L4byr1nth]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10220974.stm

 

Anyone seen that yet?

 

Ben.

[Azubi]

I suppose it doesn't help that eye-witness 'Barrie' on sky news was rambling about a huge James Bond sniper rifle that was so big it couldn't be lifted and a long rant about how people shouldn't be allowed guns. I understand it is scary when you encounter someone with a gun, I found it was when said person is looking down the sights at you, but come on. He kept saying how he was perfectly calm and collected, not even thinking the gun was at all real so how do you massively exaggerate the gun? A .22 rifle isn't that big and he was talking about it as if it was a .50 cal or something.

 

It's a massive tragedy but it just seems Sky News, at least, is full of knee jerk reactions. I am glad Cameron had publicly stated he wants to avoid knee jerk reactions. This early in his term in office, I must admit such a move is sticking his neck out and I can respect him for that.

[T3CH]

"Also, in low lighting, and somebody reports seeing one to the police, you could have an armed response officer attending that incident thinking it's a real gun."

 

ITS BRIGHT *fruitcage* ORANGE!! It'll STILL be bright orange in 'low light' conditions ffs.

 

And yes the timing is DEEPLY suspicious almost as if they were WAITING for it to happen.

[Chimpy]

Will you be saying that if MAG are cheering after a new round of RIF restrictions?

 

You know enough of my background to know that I am instantly suspicious whenever the possibility of civil rights being lost is an issue.

 

If there was any evidence to support your assertions then show it. Otherwise it's pure conjecture and you may as well stick on your tin foil hat as you are seeing connecitons that aren't there.

 

This is currently not very suspiciously timed because there is absolutely nothing to suggest it is in anyway linked to MAG, the shootings yesterday or any potential further control on sales of RIFs. It is coincidence until such time as someone shows otherwise.

[WhiskeyJuliet]

http://news.bbc.co.u...nd/10220974.stm

 

Anyone seen that yet?

 

Ben.

 

That's actually pretty well written article IMHO. Anyone reasonable who read it would realise that getting hold of a shotgun or firearm couldn't be much harder in the UK. It also mentions RIF's and defences granted to certain people (like our good selves.) Hopefully that level quality of information well be part of the media coverage of this.

 

As for the orange gun, it's a legitimate story but I don't yet see eveidence of deliberate efforts on the behalf of anti gun activits. We shall see.

 

EDIT: Good lord, this is unbelievable. I can't imagine the horror of what people must have seen yesterday. It just breaks my heart.

[Habakure]

Did any one hear the interview on bbc radio 1 about an hour or so ago, an ex-royal marine was near by (Served 8 years), and he gave an account of what looked to him as people having a hated debate (Just before the bloke started firing). He said later on that he was thinking he could have done something, to which is wife told him "you probably would have been killed". This gentleman was working near by on a shop.

 

Anyone else hear the interview? I was thinking, is he he ex-services (He said at the end of the interview he was and how long he served), as (When interviewed) they always seem to be able to give a detailed account, as to what they saw, minus any sensational commentary.

[Stealthbomber]

I see the latest from the BBC has Dave commenting on how we should avoid knee-jerk restrictions on gun ownership as an emotive response reaction to events like this.

 

Blimey!

[bladerunner168]

http://news.bbc.co.u...nd/10220974.stm

 

Anyone seen that yet?

 

Ben.

 

I read the article with interest.

I have a friend who has a shotgun licence, he uses for game hunting and clay pidgeon shooting. He said the Police were very thorough, came to his house, checked all the security, checked where it was kept, checked access routes etc etc, again, very thorough.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, gun laws in the UK are fine as it is. This bloke had his licenses since he was 32, that was twenty years ago.

Whatever made him do this, only time will tell. The guns were used as the tools, but ultimately, it's the human who pulls the trigger. It's a cliche but, people kill people.......

[Stealthbomber]

I think there's gonna turn out to be more to this than we first thought.

 

Reading through some of the stuff about it, the guy seems to have moved about quite a bit between shootings.

 

We already know that the first 2 people he shot were, apparently, deliberate targets.

 

I wonder if he was just being slippery by moving around between shootings or if, perhaps, several more of the victims were deliberate targets?

That would imply rather a lot of premeditation.

It'd mean he'd been making a list of all the people he wanted to get even with for years and keeping tabs on where they live, what they do etc.

 

Might all come to nothing but if it DOES turn out to be the case, it'd seem he's been considering this for some years.

[TbirdX]

That is highly unlikely.

 

There is always a random element to spree killings, the first victims may have been targeted, after that it becomes less and less likely that those who followed were 'grudge' targets as it were.

[snowman]

I can't see the Tories restricting shotguns - Rifles maybe, except when they go shooting up in Scotland of course!

 

As a matter of interest does anyone know how many people illegally held firearms kill in the UK per year?

 

Cheers.

[Triggerhappychappy]

All of them I'd say, excluding the odd person who has break-down/ decides to settle arguments with his shotgun/ hunting rifle- I say that because the overwhelming majority of reported shootings seem to be carried out with pistols or sub-machine guns ( uzi/ mac10 etc ), both of which are illegal to own anyway.

 

Tragic events for sure, doesnt do anything to make the public feel any safer when legally held weapons are used to commit murders along with all the illegally held ones still in circulation ( yep, banning handguns worked well didnt it... ).

 

EDIT:

 

Police figures show that there were 39 firearms-related deaths in 2008-09 and that seven of these involved a shotgun. That total was the lowest recorded by the police in 20 years. Guns play a role in just 0.3% of all recorded crimes - one in every 330 incidents.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10220974.stm

[WhiskeyJuliet]

I really, really don't think anyone can say we have a serious gun problem anymore.

 

What happened in Cumbria was NOT the fault of a "broken society" or anything we can pin on any system (or the poor *fruitcage* social workers). One guy just went berserk, horribly sad, but it does occasionally happen .

[cool-breeze87]

The UK doesn't have a gun control problem by any stretch of the imagination. The US on the other hand would be at the top of a list of countries with gun control problem as anyone can go into a shop and walk out with a semi automatic rifle as long as you are over 18 or 21, can't remember which one it is. Pistols are a little different, they do run background checks for pistols.

[Wisey]

I don't think I'm in position to comment on the US's gun control situation, but they do seem to have a reputation for it. Although, someone said this on another forum on an unrelated topic:

Dang, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania let me have a real 22 cal rifle at 15.

 

Having read some of the points people have posted about this incident, I have realised my initial wondering of the effect on our sport is a sort of "knee-jerk reaction" and I feel somewhat hypocritical now...

[MCXL]

cool-breeze87, your info is incorrect. Most Semiautomatic rifles ("Assault rifles") are in most ways restricted in the same way as handguns (21+). Of course the run cursory background checks for any new firearm. Some states have different laws however, further restricting either type of weapon. Have you ever bought a gun in the US before?

 

All That said, perhaps rather then pushing your views on 'US gun control issues' you should be more worried about the actions taking place in your government around the issue at hand in this thread: the senseless slaughter of several people.

 

So here is my thing about all this (and some other 'spree' type crimes:

 

I get the murder of the brother and the finance guy, typical anger killing. It sucks, but it makes sense to me. What I don't get is why roll around and go on a spree? I never really have gotten that. Where do you cross that bridge in your mind from, "I'm really angry so I am gonna kill you for messing with me!" to "TERROR IS FUN!!!!1!!!111"

 

It takes a special kind of *albatross* wipe to roll around and *fruitcage* with random people because you are over the edge. Picking fights or shooting people, its all just *fruitcage* stupid. I hope he has an extra special place in whatever negative afterlife you believe in.

 

Bad times. My best wishes to the residents of the area, and especially the family's of the victims.

 

EDIT: Grammarg, Spellin' an general readbility.

[cool-breeze87]

I wasn't pushing my own opinions I was just saying as an example I've read about and heard of things like that happening in America. It was more a poke at the people in this country (Britain) and how whenever there is a gun related crime there are all these anti gun people who come out saying that we have no gun control in our country.

 

This whole thing is a sad and horrific thing. What is worse though is, like I said in an earlier post, the victims are just going to be forgotten by society as a number on a spreadsheet and used as nothing more than a statistic which I feel is worse than the crime itself because the person, their life and who they were will be forgotten, they won't even be a name anymore, just another number on someone's spreadsheet to be used as a statistic. We must always remember that every person who loses their life in circumstances like these that they were a living being who had dreams and ambitions and a family. That is something we forget when this happens.

[The General]

If we still had a Labour government, there would be a ban or perhaps just even more draconian restrictions being drawn up right now.

 

As a general comment, humanity is a highly adaptable and incredibly capable race. Tools to harm others have pretty defined whole area's of development and history. When a sane person snaps or a crazy person reaches breaking point, the destruction capability and ability to get around restrictions is nearly boundless.

 

Put simply, if a person wants to go on a rampage, they can and they will. They will find it fairly easy to get what they need. Be it a car down a highly crowded shopping day or like this man did, use legally held firearms. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

Banning things almost never works. Often it makes things a whole lot worse.

[cool-breeze87]

Banning things don't work. Look at drugs, they're illegal but I know several people who take them on a regular basis. It's like Prohibition in the 1920s, people still found a way to drink alcohol even though it was illegal.

[Azubi]

 

Might all come to nothing but if it DOES turn out to be the case, it'd seem he's been considering this for some years.

 

I have been thinking the same Stealth. He took a massive circuit of the area, left others alive who could have been easy targets too and eventually did himself in before the police even really had much of a clue as to who it even was doing these shootings or had formed much of a response to it.

[cool-breeze87]

I don't buy the whole spree killing thing either. There must have been some sort of pre-meditation as a spree killing would generally take place around the same place that the first killings took place if they are random. They wouldn't drive for miles and then shoot another random person.