The "billy" gun! Masterkey madness!

[Crazy_Harry]

ok chaps, listen up

 

*pauses to stroke bushy moustache and swish swagger stick about*

 

now, as many of you know, my all time favourite custom gun has been this one, as used by el billio in the movie "predator"

 

 

And for many a long year, I've contemplated building it. I've had the el cheapo version (Tm m16a2 with the dong san ithaca masterkey) which was fun to look at, but a bit naff, all things considered.

 

I've owned numerous shotguns, from tm, to dong san, to maruzen shell ejectors, trying to find the perfect shotgun for a masterkey project.

 

But I have decided that only one can possibly fill the boots- a marushin m500 mossberg. I figure this version (probably the pistol grip version, to ensure the stock can be easily removed with little inside it), attached to a CA m15a2, would be the bomb.

 

Reasons:

 

pros: its gas tank is in the main receiver, NOT the stock, as with the maruzen, meaning I don't have to fart about with external gas tanks in the m15 foregrip or in readimags.

 

its not shell-ejecting, meaning I don't have to have a shell-catcher attached.

 

its the one billy uses

 

cons: its not a shell ejector, thus losing it a few coolness points, but who cares!!

 

gas tank is in the receiver, meaning room for drilling holes might be limited...

 

Now, what I need from you chaps, as I've decided an airsoft purchase is to be made soon, and its going to be either the m15a2 or the mossberg, is advice on how to attach the two together-

 

I'm currently thinking a metal strip, with holes drilled into it, inside the m15 foregrip with screws running into the mossbergs body. From there, I'd loop tow strips of metal round the m15 barrel and attach them to the main metal strip.

 

Primary concern is the barrel bending under the weight...hmm...

 

so: suggestions, comments, offers of machine shops all appreciated!

 

let the visa-bashing commence!

[Ledpocket]

Well,

Just bought the M500 full stock from UnCo for $325 shipped (along with 2 bags of 8mm bb's)

 

The speedpost was about $10 more than UPS, but worth it IMO.

 

Removing the "ghost ring sight" from the top of the receiver reveals 2 nicely threaded holes.

 

If I were to do a masterkey, I would take two scope rings and saw off the scope part, leaving the nice weaver rail attachment part.

 

Then drill those mounts out for the screws, and screw it to the shotty's receiver.

 

That would give you a nice RIS masterkey.

 

Oh, and the 500 is HEAVY! The only plastic parts are the stock and the foregrip. Metal barrel, metal receiver, etc etc.

 

Seems like a nice shooter, too. Although I have yet to skirmish with it. (got some nice oohs and ohhhs from my buds, though)

 

another tidbit: the full stock just unscrews from the receiver and contains no necessary parts. A mossberg pistol grip can be had for under $20 on ebay (picked mine up for $20 at the local gunshop).

 

and a couple pics for you:

 

 

 

 

 

A sneak peek at the project its turning into:

 

 

hope that helps, and if you need close ups of anything, let me know.

 

edit: whoops. wrong shotgun on that first pic...

edit again for spelling

[Crazy_Harry]

cool- thanks for the info ledpocket.

 

Am surprised the m500 cost so much to ship over- its, what, $238 on the unco website, so thats $87 shipping?! blummin' eck!

 

Still, it is a very cool shotgun- yup, the more i look at it, the more I'm thinking the fullstock might make a better project masterkey base, simply for the holes drilled for the rear ironsites...

 

dammit, I'm going to see how fast UN can get a shipping quote to me...

[Ledpocket]

Here is the quote detail I got:

 

Product name - Marushin 0.34g 8mm BBs

Product Qty - 2

Product Amount - 17

 

Product name - Marushin Mossberg M500 SSB 8mm

Product Qty - 1

Product Amount - 238

 

__________________________________

Total Price: US$ 255

Paypal- Less 3% : US$ 247.35

Shipping Cost: US$ 78

Balance: US$ 325.35

 

 

It was still cheaper than Poweredge who want $325 for the gun before shipping.

 

Unco sent a message along that UPS was about $15 cheaper, but I can't stand UPS deliveries from HK, so I paid the extra for speedpost.

 

I'll probably be making a prototype RIS attachment in the next week or so and hopefully can give you some feedback on how well it works.

 

I was thinking that with the weight of the shotgun, an exrta clamp that joined the 2 barrels (m4 and m500) might help the stability. Maybe one of those barrel flashlight mounts or something.

[richie_j]

quick idea: maybe some scope rings and sorta thread them through the fore grip, cut off what you dont need then screw the rest of the ring into the grip?

[rhino]

C_H, there was someone made a Masterkey on the Project Forums (can't remember if it was a Mossberg or an M870) Why don't you see if he has any tips for mounting on an M16-A2 (i think that's what he did)

[DarkLite]

The CA M15 barrel will not bend under the wieght.

 

It's pretty damn strong.

[Crazy_Harry]

thats what I'm hoping darklite- concern really is after long use, especially given I'm a lefty (meaning mag changes will be made with my right hand, meaning the front end will be unsupported), that the barrel will start to give, but what the hey, thats in the future!

 

Not considered the use of scope mounts- they would be perfect! good call chaps.

 

Rhino- I believe the masterkey that was built before was using an m870-very cool, but you'd need the shell catcher again - he used a sort of bracket set up similar to the don sang masterkey, plus a metal strip in the foregrip- I'm hoping to avoid the bracket if I can (don't want to ruin the lines, plus I'm pants with an angle grinder ).

 

Ledpocket- you taking the barrel off the m500- you ain't planning a cross-over between the 870 and the m500 are you? THAT would be cool, a shell ejecting mossberg

[DarkLite]

One of my skirmishing buddies has a CA M15 with a Systema Gearbox in it.

 

He actually hung his backpack (around 5-6kg) off the barrel.

 

It didn't bend.

 

He's been bashing it into trees for well over a year.

 

It hasn't bent.

[outlaw]

Im seeing something like that with my friends m15 i dont think the body will ever break and they took special care of the barrel. But he is in line for a new gearbox... well they cant get everything right can they.

[Ledpocket]

Ledpocket- you taking the barrel off the m500- you ain't planning a cross-over between the 870 and the m500 are you? THAT would be cool, a shell ejecting mossberg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No crossover, but just the serbu "super shorty" mossberg that I've been trying to make for over a year.

 

I'll post a pic of the real deal tomorrow and maybe the latest of my progress.

 

Back on topic, I was at walmart yesterday and picked up a set of scope rings for $6. Nice beefy ones that should lend themselves nicely to being repurposed for a ris masterkey

 

Might have a prototype by next week sometime. I'm thinking a small piece of steel stock 1/8"x1/2"x about 5" long attached to the sight holes on the receiver. Then the cut weaver mounts attached to the steel piece.

 

Just add a weaver rail to the handguard, attach, and blast away.

[Starkey J]

C_H didnt you have a masterkey before?

[Ledpocket]

Both on and off topic, here's a link to the shotty I'm trying to replicate:

 

http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

 

a few pics of the real steel:

 

 

 

A pic of my current progress:

 

 

and a pic of the top of the receiver, the bar, and the rings I plan on using:

 

 

So CH, did you order up a shotgun yet? And how long a rail will you have on the handguard to your rifle? I figure if this mount works for me, I could fab one up and send it to you as a small repayment for your contributions to me

[Crazy_Harry]

ooh, that looks MANLY! you could even have that holstered for extra manly sidearm effect

 

Am currently in talks with the guys at Andairsoft for an m15a2 rifle- once they get in in and send it out, I'll have a chance to judge for myself the weight/strength issues.

 

yay, masterkey! happiness comes with two barrels...

[judgeman]

speaking of manly man shotty's, has anyone ever tried to do a striker / protecta shotgun? I was thinking of doing it with a M3 Shorty and putting together a drum mag...just wanted to see if it's been tried

[Ledpocket]

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=/p...otgun_hicap.htm

 

Just add the drum to that...

[Crazy_Harry]

oh, by the way, thanks for the kind offer of knocking up a mount for me ledpocket- that would be greatly appreciated!

 

At the moment I'm think of one that runs the length of the mossberg receiver, so I can screw it in at as many points as as possible- however, I might want it to run the entire length of the m15 a foregrip to give it extra strength and to give me some way of fixxing the barrels together- thinking a piece of curved metal attached to the m15 with a screw and then to the m500 with a couple of grubsrews so as not to involve damaging the mossberg barrel.

 

Then it'd just be a couple of strips of metal attached to the m15 foregrip mount, and bent over the m15 barrel to give the whole thing greater solidity.

 

Out of interest ledpocket, how much room for screws do you recokon there is inside the m500 receiver? I can't imagine the gas tank is too huge, but it depends on where the tank is situated that will effect how the bracket os made.

 

cheers for all the help guys, this is going to be a manly gun

[Gene]

Hopefully this will be of help, but I have a little weaver rail here that came off the top of my M4 plastic body. would you like me to send it to you Harry? it's meatl, but i imagine easily butchered with screw hole etc. I'll try and get a pic on here later.

[Catchv22]

Anyone have better pictures of Billy's Masterkey? I tried searching for some but I can't seem to find any. I'm intrigued by how he attaches it to his M16 as I don't think the foregrip would be stable enough to attach a shotgun.

[Crazy_Harry]

from what I can gather, the billygun appears to have a bracket where the bayonet lug is, so from there something inside the handguard wouldn't be undoable. Not sure how reliabel it'd be in a firefight, but what the hey, its coolness that counts, not your ability to walk away, right?

 

gene- thanks very much for the offer, that'd be great! I'll PM you in a bit, cheers!

[Ledpocket]

Here's my 2nd idea, if you want to stay away from RIS mounts:

 

Use a backer plate in the handguard, screw through it, through the handguard, and into the shotgun receiver. kind of a mockup here:

 

 

 

For the front, a clamp/bracket. 1 hole for the shotty barrel, and 1 hole for the rifle barrel. a screw to clamp them together.

 

 

 

 

The only thing I wonder about it the ability of the handguard to hold the weight of the shotgun. It might need an extra bracket inside the handguard that attaches to the barrel.

 

Oh, and a few dimension would be needed to make that front bracket (barrel OD, distance from rifle barrel to shotty barrel)

[richie_j]

The thing i'd be concerned about is the stranght not of the barrel itself, but of the handguard staying attached to the gun. A 2nd mount on the barrel might be a good idea.

 

Ledpocket: wouldnt screwing it into the shotty be kinda..well...dangerous for the gun? Unless theres a cavity or summin there.

[Ledpocket]

The thing i'd be concerned about is the stranght not of the barrel itself, but of the handguard staying attached to the gun. A 2nd mount on the barrel might be a good idea.

 

Ledpocket: wouldnt screwing it into the shotty be kinda..well...dangerous for the gun? Unless theres a cavity or summin there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On the model I have (m500 full stock/ghost ring sights) there are drilled and tapped holes in the top of the receiver for the sight to mount to. There is somewhat of a cavity in there too. The internals don't fill up the entire receiver. The back end is somewhat clear, the front is more tightly filled with the worky bits.

 

As for the handguard being the only thing holding on the shotty, I would worry about that too. Basicly you'd be relying on the plastic handguard and the delta ring (?)

 

I was thinking some kind of metal strap type affair that looped over the barrel (inside the handguard) and connected back to the bracket that would hold the shotty.

 

For my own, I'm going with the RIS, as I have one of the cqb/r fronts on my M4.

[Crazy_Harry]

thanks for all the info ledpocket- nice to know the m500 has gaps in the body between the outer shell and the inner workings, as this was my primary concern.

 

I figured the handguard would need metal loops attaching the bracket to the barrel anyhoo- these wouldn't be at all hard to rumble up, just a couple of strips of metal with holes drilled for the screws bent over the barrel and rescrewed to the bracket would do the job- wouldn't even have to be that strong, just enough to give it some support.

 

as to the front end, I was wondering if the bayonet lug might be utilised in someway, as this seems to be how the billy gun works in the film.

 

possibly a flat bit of metal bent at the sides and cut so it fits to the lug, then grub-screwed so it won't slip off, then two bits curved round the shotgun barrel and grubscrewed into place at about South west and south east respectively.

 

led- would you be willing to knock me up a bracket for the handguard with holes drilled where you've noticed would be optimum for the shotgun? happy to pay, of course- pm me if you are, it'd be a great help if you were!

 

PS- should be getting the m15a2 sometime in a week or so, so shall post pics, possibly with an el-cheapo m500 mock-up when I get it, ta!

[The Waco Kid]

-

 

I'm currently thinking a metal strip, with holes drilled into it, inside the m15 foregrip with screws running into the mossbergs body. From there, I'd loop tow strips of metal round the m15 barrel and attach them to the main metal strip.

 

Primary concern is the barrel bending under the weight...hmm...

 

so: suggestions, comments, offers of machine shops all appreciated!

 

let the visa-bashing commence!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The barrel on my M15a4 & a2 are both rock solid. I have a metal M203 rigged onto one and haven't noticed any movement in the seating of the barrel or sign of barrel bending. Should be okay CH.