Blog: Magpul PTS announces the PDR AEG

[TheFull9]

ARs with 'fancy' rail systems don't look generic if you know enough about the nuances of the ways people set them up and the slight differences that various parts and accessories make to the weapon. If none of that stuff actually changed the way the weapon handled, there wouldn't be such a massive industry in making it all.

[uscmCorps]

It's still going through the final round of tweaks. They wanted to be 100% happy with it before taking it to market. It's very close actually. I tested extensively the prototype from two iterations ago, which was already further along than the one showcased at Shot Show this year. I was very pleased with it.

[Dreamer777]

It's still going through the final round of tweaks. They wanted to be 100% happy with it before taking it to market. It's very close actually. I tested extensively the prototype from two iterations ago, which was already further along than the one showcased at Shot Show this year. I was very pleased with it.

 

Any chance you can give us the 411 on the internals? if its an ARES gearbox? Accuracy?

[talon_0315]

It's still going through the final round of tweaks. They wanted to be 100% happy with it before taking it to market. It's very close actually. I tested extensively the prototype from two iterations ago, which was already further along than the one showcased at Shot Show this year. I was very pleased with it.

 

Thanks for the info, uscm. Color all of us jelly.

[swatti]

YARR! Been a while now and nothing new seems to have hit the net about this... Still no confirmed release-date?

[aznriptide859]

It's still going through the final round of tweaks. They wanted to be 100% happy with it before taking it to market. It's very close actually. I tested extensively the prototype from two iterations ago, which was already further along than the one showcased at Shot Show this year. I was very pleased with it.

 

Better not pull some ###### and make ARES OEM again...

[swatti]

I may be biased as i only own a ARES TAR21 but i cant find very many flaws in it, its nearly perfect in all aspects. Because of all the ARES-hate i opened her up to see whats causing all of it and honestly, i cant ficure it out...

There was VERY little i'd do different on that gun as far as parts go and seemingly all parts were compatible with other brands if not out of the box, with minor modding atleast.

 

I somewhat understand the micro-switch hate in ASM-forums but even that goes a bit too far in some posts and there is a 5 dollar fix for the problem out there.

 

So, seriously, why the ARES-hate?

[aznriptide859]

In general their parts quality is very sub-par, and the microswitch problem as you listed bothers a lot of us modders/EE nerds. Keep in mind ASM's main userbase is those who DON'T like keeping their guns stock, and love testing their guns to the extremes/above average of the FPS/ROF range. Compared to other manufacturers, ARES just doesn't provide a very good base gun to modify and upgrade with.. ARES's poor design decisions in the past and present has alienated them from a lot of long time/tech-oriented players.

 

Of course I am a certain amount of a hypocrite, since I do own an S&T TAR21; however I'm reluctant to open it and upgrade it in fear I will have to dump a ton of money into it just to keep it working reliably.

[swatti]

Correct me if im wrong but S&T TAR21 is PLASTIC-gearboxed cheapo/cqb-tool, not even meant as full AEG unlike its ARES made "bigger brother" and are the two even same company or direct clones? i was under the impression they are very different "under the hood"

 

I do understand ASMs members like to take their guns to the limit and thus un-ordenery design may cause issues. I would personaly limit "extreme" FPS/ROF setups for simple guns. Rough comparison but its like putting a Twinturbo-setup into a new Ferrari and then whining: "it broke"

I cant say how much the ARES TAR can take fps-wise but i can safely say it can take what the seeminly most popular limit is, as in M120 / 1.6J / 120ish ms. I have yet to see a ROF limit and we do not have such, but if someone came to me saying they want more FPS and huge ROF, i'd say "learn to play"

I had a 122m/s PDW pumping out hilarius ROF, it was a mere test and as 95% of players will be happy with just reduced semi-lag, i also downgraded my the PDWs ROF to more sane level, i dont want to hurt anyone.

 

From a quick comparison of ARES parts found in the TAR21 and some G&P, Systema, etc that were around at the time i saw none of the ARES parts inferior to any of the others. Poor upgrade-base? Seriously, how many guns have a quick-change system to get the spring out? I'd say that alone makes for one VERY good upgrade-base unless you have some strange urge to stuff in a M170 Spring and 10cell Lipo... "Oh look, it broke, must be bad design and poor upgrade-base"

 

Both guns and cars have their "intended use" and going past it and then whining its not working right and blaming the maker is just stupid.

[aznriptide859]

From what I understand, S&T "claim" they are ARES's OEM, and then started releasing their own, cheaper products (ironically, same as when ARES claimed they were STAR's OEM, then started releasing their own stuff). Based on reviews and breakdowns their designs are almost the same, albeit S&T using a little cheaper parts (i.e. the plastic-gearboxed TAR21).

 

I can see your viewpoint on the upgrade "potential", however most players who do want to upgrade in the future expect some sort of reliability once new upgrade parts are put in. As for me, if I want to upgrade the FPS, I want to be able to put in a spring and not have the rest of the parts fail; I've had a large number of guns fail after a simple upgrade, which resulted in me replacing 70-80% of the rest of the parts. ARES's "potential" doesn't stand up to others such as JG, DBoys, TM, VFC...the list goes on. However, if you want to just keep the gun stock (as I probably will on my TAR21), then ARES is possibly viable as a "decent" gun.

 

I won't go into the quick spring change function much - some people few that as a convenience (easier to change FPS ratings), while some people few that as a flaw (weaker gearbox reinforcement near the spring guide area).

 

My other gripe with ARES is their poor design/technical choices. I do not know all of them, but I have heard complaints regarding their hopup "integrated nub" system, their L96 gas bolt/magazine quality, their retarded battery-in-mag design for the M3 Greasegun....and the list goes on. Personally, I trust ARES much less than I trust other manufacturers, so I am extremely reluctant to buy something that they make (the TAR21 being an exception since I got it for ridiculously cheap).

 

All in all, everyone is entitled to their own opinions - if you like ARES, then that's OK too. But considering the huge number of complaints with the PTS ACR and them using ARES as the OEM, I hope PTS have "listened" and will be using some other manufacturer for their PDR.

[NeoVeNoM]

Well, I have tested an S&T G36c of a client. and the finish is well below quality compared to my Ares G36c.

Body parts don't fit smoothly, hanging loose actually gearbox is basically Chinese. and the black paint on it chips off like crazy.

It might have been 50€ cheaper, but mine is already more than 1 year old and never broken down and 350fps OTB.

the S&T had to be completely dismantled modified and put together again. So much for 50€ cheaper. Guess it's a hit or miss.

I never had real issues with Ares in general (STAR on the other hand...) and I am a long term/tech crazy airsoft player.

What I do noticed over the years, is that many have the fundamentals wrong on a gearbox even when it comes to simple maintenance.

It's in the details, But in the end everyone has to do what he/she likes best.

just my 2 cents.

 

Now lets hope this PDR hits the shelves next month!

[swatti]

Interesting. I have a S&T SVD... Kinda makes me wanna find that TAR21 now to do some comparisons.

 

The previous owner of my TAR21 put it thru hell as usage goes and i've been far from gentle. Ive kept it stock as it pumps out FPS nearing our limit with VERY good overall performance in every aspect as well. Do ppl honestly even need more then 120m/s or so?

TM "reliability" is due to a weak spring. Their parts are VERY consistant and have very good quality control but swap in a M120-spring and do talk to me about "reliability"

Most ACM-brands have VERY poor quality control and thus the guns fail often, give em a proper checkup and fix the faults before you fire a shot and yours is gonna last longer then most guns in the field.

 

ARES guns are rare here due to the price, ACMs have taken over here bigtime. Hopup "integrated nub" doesnt seem very hard to fix if needed... Does sound odd tho. If i wanted a Greasegun, i'd go for ARES because of the battery-in-mag-thingy. I think i might have some 11.1v lipos that would fit. While others may think its stupid, for me it would be brilliant while somewhat increase the mag-prices.

 

While i cant say that im a particular ARES-fanboy, i do say they are just as good as any other or even better then most brands. I personaly put them way above most ACM-brands. They have few "different" designs and so do many others. Seems to me that some ppl have taken ARES as their target and blaming them for just about anything. Personaly i'd rather have the ARES-made ACR then the horrid junk that A&K spewed out and i sadly bought. Why? Because all ARES guns, be it TAR21 or ACR seem to run smooth while A&K ACRs have a bad reputation here for being rubbish.

Well, enough of this now. So far we cant prove anything to be honest. I have my experience, you have your by the looks of it. I think its safe to say there could be many worse options then ARES as far as parts go and well, if you dont like em, swap em, i wont.

[aznriptide859]

Haha no problem, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. And yes, there are many, MANY worse options out there .

[intinerious]

swatti, I think the main thing to people is cost v performance. Those that do complain about ARES are looking at the internals being somewhat proprietary, the OEM parts being hard to get I believe, and for the price you pay (I understand the externals are EXCELLENT) it just doesn't have the same 'flexibility' as TM specced guns.

 

I like to point out that just because it's got a quick spring change feature doesn't mean it's a very GOOD upgrade base. That'll be kinda like saying that V2s are better than V3 gearboxes because there's no motor cage attached to the gearbox, so changing out the motor is easy

 

Most players, after getting their AEGs would like to either change the FPS, ROF or both. With ARES and it's proprietary parts you can see how that's a problem. Plus, being able to easily (as in without the need to do irreversible mods to the internals) do crazy stuff to the gun, like upping ROF to 70 rps or get up to 3J, is a sign that the OEM materials are strong enough to withstand something that crazy (therefore, if you managed to break parts in a less strenuous setup it's likely the tech's fault, not solely the materials) or there are aftermarket options available out there that will allow you to get up to that level of craziness.

 

And you're right about people shoving crazy stuff into the gun and making the OEM parts break...but the main issue here is for the price ARES's other competitors CAN get up to that level of power, or has the capabilities to due to aftermarket options, whereas ARES is lacking in that department. In this case you cannot use TM as a comparable given that everything TM design is solely based on their home market with their low fps ceiling, and even if you work around that by saying the stock parts don't hold up to 1J @ 60rps TM still have aftermarket support which CAN enable it to reach that level of rps with that energy level. ARES as far as I know don't have advertised or implied 'limits' to their products (and if they advertised anything that would be a marketing failure IMO) and therefore the general population of tech-inclined airsofters will hold it up to the standards that we compare other China/Taiwan based AEGs with, and those far exceed the cost v performance of ARES.

 

As for the ACR, I'll only agree with you (being angry) if they used A&K stuff if the price remained the same as their current ARES based ACR If the ACR was A&K based, was reasonably priced and had a plethora of aftermarket support available to it, I'm sure you'll see a lot more love for the ACR from tech-inclined people than it's current situation. You shouldn't automatically assume people are hating on ARES because it's the cool thing to do in airsoft gossip nowadays and failing to address the overall inflexibility of the platform to the demands of most airsofters who are tech-inclined and if given the chance will rip any gearbox apart before putting it back together to see if it works

[swatti]

GRR! Damn you all for making me look like a ARES marketing rep...

 

Well, i must admit in Cost vs Performance ARES might fail but considoring i can get PTW-grade performance out of a Cheapo ACM gun with few tweaks dont that mean everything above that said ACM-cheapo is not very cost-efficant?

 

Like i said i dont wanna sound like an ARES-fanboy but instead to prove its no worse then most brands out there. Hmm... That said, what would it need to be "equal" in your eyes? Pump out massive FPS? Huge ROF? Both? Its been quite some time since i took mine apart so i cant recall all details so clearly but trying to think back i see no problems fitting most parts to say, my AK74U or fitting the parts from the AK to the TAR21... Out of the two i'd say ARES takes a small lead over the Dboys AK. Dunno if i'd put my money on a fancy Systema Probox over ARES TAR21 gearbox(as in internals, not just shell), be it a brutal stress-test "till the end" or typical skirmishing.

If i recall, wasn it so that a regular piston needed modification to fit the TAR21? Cant remember that on mine. Ok. Lets say its so, or any part for that matter. They made a TAR21, freaking sweet! Even has nifty features like spring-release and quick-change, i'd forgive them a few "may need some modding" -bits for all they have done.

 

Heres a question. What does other guns have that the TAR21 cannot have due to its "special TAR21-only parts" ? Considoring it is an assault-rifle.

Jeah im sure someone is really sad somewhere cause his didnt work as a SAW and sniper at the same time and now hates ARES for it while sleeping next to his 249 with biiiig scope on it.

 

Reminds me of me and guy next door. I buy a new Mercedes-Benz with a big engine, he buys a Toyota that runs on batteries or so. Both cars get the job done, he for some reason just seems to hate anything with a Merc-star on it for some reason and spreads the hate all over... Does that make mine bad? Im also fairly sure Prius doesnt have a "sport" model regardless if the tags he has on his boot ^^

 

I believe both the guy next door and someone not using a TAR21 as an assault-rifle is an idiot.

[ODST_NE0]

From my personal experience with the ARES TAR21 and my personal ACRs, I don't feel the hate for the ARES internals, more as I am just wishing they would have done things differently. Much as the same feeling I have about that 5R55S transmission has to have its fluid filled from the bottom of the pan, instead of normal filling from the top. I like how ARES is willing to try things differently, but sometimes they get caught up in this new idea I don't always think things all the way.

 

While they may not be super/hyper performers, they do the job for the typical demands of airsoft (FPS 350-400 and 15-18RPS), not going to be doing super stuff, but they can do the job. I am actually quite impress with the TAR21 performance, especially its stock ROF. I usually don't hold a Stock AEGs hopup against it too much, as I usually replace it off the bat to begin with.

 

Now if the PDR comes out with a ARES gearbox, will I be disappointed...a bit, but not enough to not get one.

[Jibbity]

swatti, I think the main thing to people is cost v performance.

 

^ This exactly. I can buy a JG and all of the parts to make it whatever I want for $200.

[Danke]

On the topic of Ares I really like my SR-25. I got it because of the unique features like the integraged hopup, micro switch/mosfet, quick change spring etc.

 

Unfortunatly when the tappet plate broke it took over a year to resolve. If that had been someone's first AEG and they couldn't use it for an entire year they would have most likely pulled the pin on anything airsoft and they'd never have bought another Ares.

 

I have been told that this issue is being addressed and it's changing.

[NeoVeNoM]

this is turning ridiculous. 60rps? 3J? since when did airsoft turn into star trek laser beams?

In general you can buy all the parts you want for tune up, yes even with an Ares, just do research.

But If you don't have the skills to make em to good use, then it's rubbish. Regardless of the brand.

 

Besides most AEG's function improperly due to bad battery and bb's, or simply bad user.

[3vi1-D4n]

I sold my Ares CTAR21. Nice to hold, but very rear heavy not quick aiming and accuracy just wasn't as good as other AEGs. Certain mags didn't feed, it wasn't easily serviceable and the red dot wasn't working properly.

 

P90 on the other hand is different, its accurate (more accurate than the CTAR21), serviceable, balanced (with a pot metal upper) and easy to aim. If it didn't give me RSI I would've kept it.

 

I am hoping that Ares would make the PDR like the P90 without the screwed up grip.

[intinerious]

GRR! Damn you all for making me look like a ARES marketing rep...

 

Well, i must admit in Cost vs Performance ARES might fail but considoring i can get PTW-grade performance out of a Cheapo ACM gun with few tweaks dont that mean everything above that said ACM-cheapo is not very cost-efficant?

 

Like i said i dont wanna sound like an ARES-fanboy but instead to prove its no worse then most brands out there. Hmm... That said, what would it need to be "equal" in your eyes? Pump out massive FPS? Huge ROF? Both? Its been quite some time since i took mine apart so i cant recall all details so clearly but trying to think back i see no problems fitting most parts to say, my AK74U or fitting the parts from the AK to the TAR21... Out of the two i'd say ARES takes a small lead over the Dboys AK. Dunno if i'd put my money on a fancy Systema Probox over ARES TAR21 gearbox(as in internals, not just shell), be it a brutal stress-test "till the end" or typical skirmishing.

If i recall, wasn it so that a regular piston needed modification to fit the TAR21? Cant remember that on mine. Ok. Lets say its so, or any part for that matter. They made a TAR21, freaking sweet! Even has nifty features like spring-release and quick-change, i'd forgive them a few "may need some modding" -bits for all they have done.

 

Heres a question. What does other guns have that the TAR21 cannot have due to its "special TAR21-only parts" ? Considoring it is an assault-rifle.

Jeah im sure someone is really sad somewhere cause his didnt work as a SAW and sniper at the same time and now hates ARES for it while sleeping next to his 249 with biiiig scope on it.

 

Reminds me of me and guy next door. I buy a new Mercedes-Benz with a big engine, he buys a Toyota that runs on batteries or so. Both cars get the job done, he for some reason just seems to hate anything with a Merc-star on it for some reason and spreads the hate all over... Does that make mine bad? Im also fairly sure Prius doesnt have a "sport" model regardless if the tags he has on his boot ^^

 

I believe both the guy next door and someone not using a TAR21 as an assault-rifle is an idiot.

 

LOL it's fine that you like ARES and all, and I've never owned one myself, but have a friend at owns one and understand that it's a pain to fix (even in Hong Kong where you'd expect to be able to find parts...being ARES is based in HK and all) and as I frequent ASM I'll take what I read about ARES and stay far away from it. Their price tag is sure the disincentive to get an ARES if they really have issues and have inflexibility in upgrading for me!

 

What's with the comparison with the elcheapo-ACM guns? I think you mean it should be said that ACM guns are the MOST cost effective? In that case it would be a resounding 'yes', but remember those who CAN tune an ACM gun up to crazy levels aren't your average tech, so they might not have the knowledge to let them do DSG builds and such, meaning that the cost v performance comparative would be lower compared to other brands just because they cannot reach the same level of teching as some people do. There's also the factor of the external appearance. For function over form, some ACM guns really beat the rest (like the Golden Eagle or JG G36...if you've seen the new batch, you wouldn't think it's elcheapo ACM XD) but like you said and you're trying to put forward; there's a lot of ACM brands out there that have much lower quality and specs than ARES or even OTHER guns that are in the ACM 'grouped brand' that we're talking about, so don't let us ACM brand supporters for the cost v performance part trick you into thinking we support ALL the makes of ACM

 

For ARES to be equal, they should either start by lowering their price and use non-proprietary stuff. There's nothing wrong with the current standard trigger contacts, and they play along nicely with FETs if it's required, but if you've frequent ASM enough you'll find that their trigger switches aren't friendly to FETs at all and they do have a tendency to break...and then getting replacement parts are a PITA, etc.

 

Also, they don't have to churn out high ROF and FPS out of the box! No OOTB gun do that anyway! It's the ABILITY for ARES AEGs to be able to be modified to the same level as their other competitor's AEGs with the same amount of hassle as modding the competitor's AEGs would make ARES attractive for me to buy. Their externals...for the plastics used, is probably on par with the quality of VFC products right? So if they can do what VFC does, which is quality externals and so-so internals, but the internals being non-proprietary stuff, and charging roughly the same amount as VFC does for their guns (maybe slightly less if the gun has a plastic receiver) then that would make ARES very attractive.

 

I think you're also putting a lot of emphasis on the fact that only ARES has made an acceptable TAR21 replica...that's true, and that's why everyone buys ARES if they can get their hands on one rather than get the S&T if they knew about the crappier materials S&T used (right S&T users? If I'm wrong lemme know ). But the fact is for those that are comparing AEG to AEG, not TAR21 to TAR21, ARES lose out big time.

 

And those bits of 'destructive' modding to get regular parts to work on the ARES is probably the same reason why some of us hate KWA as well XD The amount of mods required for both to fit TM specced parts (if available) is probably the same.

 

And your comparison of us with your neighbour doesn't work. We aren't jealous of your gun (and stop rubbing it in our faces that you have a Merc ), we're just not accepting ARES for giving us a product that we want (like the TAR21) but with a huge price tag and the inflexibility of modding the gun If you come on the forums and say why you like ARES and you don't understand all the ARES hate, someone who doesn't like ARES is bound to pipe up with their reason as to why. We're not advocating you to follow our position, but rather that we both accept each other's reasons why we hate or love ARES and leave it at that Both aznriptide859 and myself understand your reasons why you like ARES, but it just seems like you don't understand why (or don't accept) both of us (and many others) for our dislike of ARES

 

this is turning ridiculous. 60rps? 3J? since when did airsoft turn into star trek laser beams?

In general you can buy all the parts you want for tune up, yes even with an Ares, just do research.

But If you don't have the skills to make em to good use, then it's rubbish. Regardless of the brand.

 

Besides most AEG's function improperly due to bad battery and bb's, or simply bad user.

 

Hey, if you can do it, like I said before, that means anything in between those ROF and power levels would be build-able!

 

So in general ARES can be counted as having aftermarket support, or are you saying that their stock parts in your experience are easy to get?

[steve ashworth]

its different I will give it that, looks like the *bramston pickle* off spring of a P90 and an Aug

[swatti]

I think i am starting to see why you guys dislike ARES and why i like it. Personaly i have nearly ten years of tuning guns under my belt, i dare say im very good at without bragging about it.

 

You guys want something "exotic" and new to be just like any other AK and AR15 out there, tech-wise. Very much understandable but often VERY hard if not impossible. Kinda like thinking race-cars were as simple as any 4-door sedan. My car reference was not to brag or about jealesy in any way. The "guy next door" bought a cheaper and very much more "cost efficant" car and for no reason turned into Merc-hater because its just different and has much more complex fancy toys and optional extras in it he says: "where do you even use those?".

 

Heres another example. ICS AR15. Mostly fits typical parts but has different threads in the upper-reciever then regular, plain stupid thing to do and makes swapping in a new front just a plain misery... Still, i do it and simply "forgive" the brand. I specificly wanted an ICS gun, even bought a second. Why? Cause i think the 2-piece gearbox is brilliant and i can test parts with it VERY fast.

I want something "different" and so "must" pay the price for it for being different.

 

I find it no problem to modify parts so they can fit and i do believe the modding needed in ARES guns were quite minor(?) but a lot of ppl dont want to mod their guns or dont know how to. That is perfectly understandable. In that case however, one should not expect to get past-the-limits-perfomance from a gun.

If you want a decent OOTB assault-rifle for the price-range that is "different" from the typical AK and AR15 models out there, i would gladly recommend a ARES TAR21. If you want to go past the typical limits of a typical AEG, then the ARES parts may cause issues. For an unusual exterior i think ppl should accept it may have unusual internals.

The only ones who seem to be "hating" it are ppl who for some reason want to go past the typical limit for no apperent reason. They are maybe less then 1% of the buyers/users as most will be very happy with their gun just as it is.

 

I stumbled upon the micro-switch hate that then turned into ARES-hate in ASM, im fairly sure i'd have micro-switch rather then "genital herpes" as mentioned once somewhere there. One of my friends came over soon after with his TAR21 (that i recommended to him and he loves) in hopes of getting mosfet fitted. We also have a CPU-mosfet that actually did have issues due to the micro-switch as described in ASM(yet i'd rather have those over "genital Herpes") as in vibrations from the shooting causes the fets open & close bazillion times more then they should...

Soooo, instead of resulting in hating and referring a working cost-efficant solution to genital-disease i took it "as a challenge" and went into a local electric-stuff-store and discribed the issue and what i needed. The clerk poked around the original part and took some measurements. Week later few possible working parts arrived and they cost about 5€ each, "shock / vibration proof" micro-switches as they were described. Supposedly used in boat-engines mostly, diesel-engines shake and vibrate. Also water-proof! ^^

Later we installed our CPU fet and went thru its logs. The problems caused by the original part were gone. My gun remains stock, my friends gun runs fine with the CPU-fet.

 

(Also there is a theory that such issues can be countered by not using a break-fet and increasing the resistor-size for the wake-up current of the normal-fet so it "cleans out" the vibration-static a bit. No personal experience, theory from an actual exprert in electronics and builder of our CPU-fet)

 

It would be A LOT better if ARES had the typical tm-style V3 or V6 gearbox in the TAR21 and normal parts, but it doesnt. I for one forgive them this decision and very well understand their decision to do what they did.

 

"If you wanna be different, get ready to do things different"

 

- BACK TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC FOR A CHANGE -

 

Am i seeing things or does the PDR have a "Long sylinder" ?

 

While it may add some semi-lag and reduce ROF, i'm actually hoping im right in this. I have such in my L85 and kinda like it. im not sure i'd have the same pre-arming of the spring like its done in the L85 but its pretty nice to upgrade the FPS in those. My old Systema M100 spring pumps out well more then the 100m/s and the slow ROF with the blowback is sweet music to my ears and pure fear in "theirs" ^^

 

If it were to have a "long sylinder" would that dissapoint some as its quite different from regular setup? Would you leave it as it is, or would go for a conversion like the L85s have aviable?

[FireKnife]

So, short, runs on common mags, feels like a P90?

 

I am sold.

 

Electric.

 

I am now back on the market, someone else buy my interest

 

However i really can see it selling quite well inspite of this fact.

 

'FireKnife'

[starburst]

I can imagine if it sells well enough it will beg for a GBB version, doing it as an AEG makes sence for PTS as they dont make their own GBB PMAGs (yet).

 

Will be interested in seeing one of these when they are released as I love my PTS Masada, will also be interesting to see how well these sell as the design has not yet made it into production Real Steel (I think I read somewhere it was shelved) but with it being featured in a game or two I can see it being a popular alternatlve to the P90. I loved the P90 I had apart from the magazine size, so if this is as comfortable to use as the P90 and gives good performance I can see myself easily being in the market for one.