Kriss drops KWA

[-wigs-]

I'm aware, I'm speaking in terms or ar15s and smgs especially with this whole US gun drama we have.

[Danke]

Many other countries would have the same issue. A concern that bad actors would purchase the mock guns and re-manufacture them into real firearms.

[PreacherMan]

The controlled parts of the firearm in the UK are practically speaking anything and everything that the gun won't work without, or what the border agent that gets assigned your package thinks the gun won't work without, my guess would be the external shell of a gun would be a total nightmare to get through. Canadian law I imagine will be slightly different, but I'd still expect a few eyebrows to be raised if you brought in the empty husk of a sub machine gun.

Ah, sorry to hear. Yeah, law is different here- we can get real steel full upper receivers legally. Sometimes Canadian border services can be harsh about it, but things generally get through sooner or later.

That dental acrylic stuff sounds like a grand idea, honestly.

[kullwarrior]

From what I recall Allizard telling me (long before he left KWA), the KWA's Vector's inner workings were entirely Yih Kai's own design and their own patents. I also recall him telling me the development of the GBB platform as well as all the tooling and molding was paid for by Yih Kai and is Yih Kai's property. Kriss Arms simply licensed the likeness (tradedress) and markings/copyrights to Yih Kai (Kriss Arms also gave KWA/Yih Kai feedback on the GBB during development). Therefore, while KWA/Yih Kai presently (and from the sounds of it indefinitely) can no longer continue manufacturing the Vector as a complete gun, certain components, especially internal (high wear) components which are their own design, are within the OEM's legal right to continue producing. It is unclear to me what Vector GBB external parts, if any, are legal for Yih Kai to continue producing. I'm sure KingSize, when able, will share such info.

 

Now, that said, being that the internal designs belong to Yih Kai, this also means Kriss Arms can't take the designs to someone else to continue producing the same GBB Vector by a different OEM. So should they choose to pursue more GBB Vectors in the future, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board to do it.

 

Yes and if they decide to fly with it I'm pretty sure KWA's patent would be overruled since it uses the Super v design (tilting bolt carrier)

[uscmCorps]

Maybe. Maybe not. From what I recall the KWA internal design was supposed to be patent pending. Doubt they'd even bother trying to patent something if Kriss had it completely covered with their RS design. But I'm not a lawyer, so it's all just conjecturing.

[Danke]

It's too bad they have to do this in a manner of "you kids have to decide which parent; me or your terrible mother you want to live with".

[blobface]

The controlled parts of the firearm in the UK are practically speaking anything and everything that the gun won't work without, or what the border agent that gets assigned your package thinks the gun won't work without, my guess would be the external shell of a gun would be a total nightmare to get through. Canadian law I imagine will be slightly different, but I'd still expect a few eyebrows to be raised if you brought in the empty husk of a sub machine gun.

 

You could buy so many stocks and moving parts from America through Midway perfectly legally and trouble free... you just need the right export middle man to do the paperwork. 

[cazboab]

If you have a section 1 license you can bring in an entire AR-15 with the gas system removed, if you do the proper paperwork but its still a controlled item. Technically I suppose you could argue that the outer shell of a Vector is a deact, but then you'd never be allowed to put airsoft bits inside it as that would be re-activation. I know people have looked into similar conversions in the past and were generally fobbed off one way or another when inquiries were made, the general feeling has always been the powers that be don't want anyone to do it, and even if its not illegal they'll find a way to make it sound illegal enough that nobody would try it. the short version is, if you use any part of a gun that was ever part of a real gun(not accessories like vertical grips etc) it could technically be reactivating a de-act if the CPS/procurator fiscal etc feel like it at which point you'd be relying on the common sense of a judge and 12 of your peers..

[Habakure]

Seen a few shops with it in stock. It's more the people that have one, that's the issue (unfortunately). Mags and replacement parts, which doesn't include the shell the kriss is in/needs.

 

Edit:- it's in stock at jd airsoft too

 

http://www.jdairsoft.net/product/5e5e80b3-3d50-4501-ab3f-9b69eed2dce0.aspx

[blobface]

Back in stock yesterday at WGC.

[hawaiianjuggernaut]

Ya know, if KWA stocks replacement bodies, you could just buy a whole vector in parts and DIY assemble it. Just saying haha.

[warspite]

Im both a real steel and GBB Vector owner and a lawyer by profession. My reading of the Kriss announcement, is that Kriss Arms is merely terminating exclusivity. It makes more sense. Quite possibly KWA will be allowed to continue manufacturing its Vector GBB replica, but I suspect Kriss Arms', buoyed by the success of the GBB version, began to realize the potential for more profits in granting other airsoft manufacturers similar licensing agreements with it. I believe airsoft manufacturers like Marui, KSC and VFC, after seeing the positive market reception of the Vector GBB, will soon be churning up their Vector versions. From a legal standpoint, a complete termination of the Kriss-KWA licensing agreement without just cause, may not be in the former's interest insofar as it might make them susceptible to a breach of contractual obligations suit.

[-wigs-]

As per usually with most rs companies that venture to the slanging plastic side. It's profit, plain and simple. It's a smart move on Kriss part to cash in but a huge luck to the face in the long run cause now that the exclusive right are gone we and every other company will pop one out with cybergun foaming at the mouth/wallet to rob everyone of that ability. Still any company that wants to make a vector will have to start from scratch besides maybe throwing the workings of a gbb into the rs bodies. The kwa vector system is infact patented by the owner of kwa, you can google the patent number, so anyone that wants the realistic working system will have to pay up. A plus for kwa.

[hawaiianjuggernaut]

Im both a real steel and GBB Vector owner and a lawyer by profession. My reading of the Kriss announcement, is that Kriss Arms is merely terminating exclusivity. It makes more sense. Quite possibly KWA will be allowed to continue manufacturing its Vector GBB replica, but I suspect Kriss Arms', buoyed by the success of the GBB version, began to realize the potential for more profits in granting other airsoft manufacturers similar licensing agreements with it. I believe airsoft manufacturers like Marui, KSC and VFC, after seeing the positive market reception of the Vector GBB, will soon be churning up their Vector versions. From a legal standpoint, a complete termination of the Kriss-KWA licensing agreement without just cause, may not be in the former's interest insofar as it might make them susceptible to a breach of contractual obligations suit.

 

So by terminating exclusivity, it doesnt necessarily mean that KWA is going to stop making the Vector? 

Maybe they did this because they wanted KWA to make the gas version and someone else to make the AEG? 

After all they just stated "termination of its exclusive trademark licensing with KWA"

It doesn't imply they CAN'T make the GBB version still. 

 

It's probably too early to speculate, but if I had to guess, it is something along the lines of KRISS arms just not wanting KWA make the AEG, or they just found a better all-around-partner for the future KRISS airsoft guns. 

[-wigs-]

That's a very good point, if they gave it to someone like vfc kids would eat it up like the last piece of cake. But the flip side to that is they could just license it to someone like umarex who will pump out a sub par gun for double the price, I mean look at the mp7 mags now that they at "umarex". $70 for a 40 round mag, blow me quietly please

[warspite]

So by terminating exclusivity, it doesnt necessarily mean that KWA is going to stop making the Vector? 

Maybe they did this because they wanted KWA to make the gas version and someone else to make the AEG? 

After all they just stated "termination of its exclusive trademark licensing with KWA"

It doesn't imply they CAN'T make the GBB version still. 

From a purely legal standpoint, a termination of licensing agreement, unless clearly indicated in the termination announcement, does not always imply a complete or absolute termination. As in all contracts, parts may be removed or severed (in layman speak), yet the rest of the contract, remain operative. I'm hoping this is the case in this particular instance.

[Habakure]

I thought a member of kwa already said, they had to stop making anymore Vectors, but parts and mags, will still be available? It's in this very thread. I think only two pages back?

 

Edit:- Here you go (bit more than 2 pages back)

 

No truth to that statement at all, as well as many others.

 

Let me clarify one thing, KWA will not cease operation and will continue to have product support for these products. It's only the one product that we will not produce, not the entire KWA line of products. We will have parts and support for those of you that have the product.

KWA is not shutting down or restructuring. No need to shut down as we have been getting regular shipments and have been shipping out products.

 

It is also a huge overstatement to say that half of the KWA staff QUIT. A few quit to work for another company and a few got let go, however the rest of us are here and it is business as usual.

 

If you have any questions about products or support, please visit the KWA Help Desk at www.kwausa.com/support.

 

Thank you all for your support

[Bjerre]

So by terminating exclusivity, it doesnt necessarily mean that KWA is going to stop making the Vector? 

Maybe they did this because they wanted KWA to make the gas version and someone else to make the AEG? 

After all they just stated "termination of its exclusive trademark licensing with KWA"

It doesn't imply they CAN'T make the GBB version still. 

 

It's probably too early to speculate, but if I had to guess, it is something along the lines of KRISS arms just not wanting KWA make the AEG, or they just found a better all-around-partner for the future KRISS airsoft guns. 

 

From the press release made by KRISS it think it is pretty clear that ALL corporation have stopped!!!

 

 

Of course KRISS/Defiance ((former?)KWA distributor Europe) will not go out and say “we stop all corporation with Yih Kai”. Many reasons for this and a few could be that they have invested money in molds at Yih Kai and have stock at DefianceAirsoft.

 

 

But face it; KWA and KRISS are no longer working together – quite the opposite!

 

 

//Bjerre

 

[Chevieblazer]

I'm no lawyer, but I'd be with Bierre on this one. The statement quite clearly states that there will be no further KWA Vectors. If they can still make them, I'd be a happy camper, but I doubht it

[Aitch]

I reckon we'll see Cybergun with the license or a similar a*sehole of a company taking over and KWA will end up manufacturing for them and the AEG Vector will be made by some other company, hopefully not a lame one.

[warspite]

From the press release made by KRISS it think it is pretty clear that ALL corporation have stopped!!!

 

 

 

Of course KRISS/Defiance ((former?)KWA distributor Europe) will not go out and say “we stop all corporation with Yih Kai”. Many reasons for this and a few could be that they have invested money in molds at Yih Kai and have stock at DefianceAirsoft.

 

 

 

But face it; KWA and KRISS are no longer working together – quite the opposite!

 

 

 

//Bjerre

That may be true, but unless there are further official announcements from Kriss Arms, then such claims remain conjectural. I must caution everyone that conjectures and inuendos are often the origin and subject of court action. Nevertheless, my prior assessment seem to be valid, that the entire licensing agreement has not been rendered nugatory or null, since product support will continue.

[Habakure]

Again, *king size* has said kwa won't be making anymore Vectors, but parts and mags, will still be available. Unless your thinking *King size* is lying?

[warspite]

KRISS Arms terminates exclusive Trademark Licensing with KWA

Nyon, Switzerland - 18.04.2013 - KRISS Arms, the Swiss global leader in firearms innovation, announces the termination of its exclusive trademark licensing with KWA. This termination affects all current and future KRISS airsoft projects, including the popular KRISS Vector SMG GBB and upcoming AEG version.

KRISS Arms will also be actively pursuing any infringements of its patents and trademarks worldwide, including unauthorized manufacturing and distribution of KRISS product replicas.

As part of its strong commitment and support to the Milsim and professional training community, KRISS Arms will be seeking for new innovative partners in the airsoft industry to market its current and upcoming airsoft products.

About KRISS Arms

KRISS® Arms, an innovative Swiss-based group, delivers proprietary technologies to the firearms industry enabling more efficient solutions, corresponding to the 21st century requirements for the global law enforcement, military and civilian markets. KRISS is headquartered in Switzerland, with production and operations in Switzerland, as well as in Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA.

 

 

The above quoted official announcement has been the sole pronouncement to date and in the absence of any other official announcements from the two corporations, it would be too early to speculate and rely on conjectures. In any event, this promises to be a very messy affair.

[cazboab]

A former KWA employee, who is now a kriss employee, has stated in this thread that KWA are no longer authorised to make vector replicas. A current KWA employee has stated in this thread that KWA will no longer provide vector replicas but will still have parts and magazines available . I fail to see how that is conjecture or innuendo.

[warspite]

Again, *king size* has said kwa won't be making anymore Vectors, but parts and mags, will still be available. Unless your thinking *King size* is lying?

Nobody is accusing anyone of concocting lies. Prudence dictates that we await further developments before coming to any conclusions. No one wants to inflame the tensions between the two corporate entities further by relying on unofficial sources.