Fantasy vs Fact (Airsoft Evolution)

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I've noticed what seems to be a fast growing trend, airsoft makers producing airsoft guns NOT based on real steel rifles. It seems companies are gradually moving away from producing replica guns, and the market seems to be accepting this shift. Guns like the APS UAR, GHK G5, and probably even more prevalent, M4 variants with home grown additions specific to airsoft, for example, the front ris system on the WE Raptor, or the rail system used on the G&G Raider, or even the ICS CXP weapons, the list goes on.

 

Personally, I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad thing. The big selling point of airsoft over say, paintball, was it's homage to realism, the fact that we could buy guns that mimicked real weapons up to the point of firing a bb rather than a round. The whole hoha over the VCR-A and the creation of UKARA (in the UK) so we could have access to Real Imitation Firearms....and now we seem to be gradually pulling away from real steel, I wonder where we'll end up as a hobby.

 

On the other hand, trying to mimick real world guns means airsoft is restricted in its scope to what's out there, and it's hardly as if new real gun systems are being developed daily. Then there's the whole license issue, barstewards like Umarex and Cybergun buying up every license they can and then placing a strangle hold on the market, not to mention recent events between KWA and Kriss.

 

If airsoft is allowed to plot it's own course, independent of the real steel arms industry, we will see awesome designs like the G5 and the UAR become an everyday occurrence? Will the technology and system feedback progress further because rifles are no longer restricted to having to fit into a M4 or AK frame set? Will we see (in the UK) a complete freedom from the clutches of the VCR-A as potentially guns look less and less like real steel weapons and become more defined by the fact they fire bb's (I'm imagining guns like the stuff from Mass Effect!!)

 

Or will we ultimately end up with flashy coloured Nerf-guns? I mean, G&G have already considered it's a good idea to release a pink M4, and who can forget the Thundermaul?

 

What do you guys think? Debate!

[tquilha]

I'm a bit of a collector, so I like to have my airsoft replicas as "real" as possible.

That said, I like the UAR quite a lot, and I would LOVE some more Sci-fi inspired weapons on the market (Morita, M41A with working GL, etc...)

 

So, I say, go for it!

[Danke]

The only way you'll free yourself from the VCRA limits is to make the guns look like lime green beach balls.

 

The idea isn't for someone who's memorized every weapon in history to look at an object and turn their nose up because it's based in fantasy.

 

The idea is for someone who has no idea what a firearm is to feel safe and secure when they see one.

[DangerWerx]

Airsoft is what you make it.   

  

As any hobby grows, different avenues and sub groups will branch away from the norm to accommodate their own personal tastes and experiences. Growth in any facet will be done by the voting provided by consumer dollars.  Manufactures take a gamble to produce something new, some as extreme as an original design, and if the gamble pays off, others will explore it. 

 

I love the idea of Airsoft focused applications. There are home gun smiths who fabricate firearms from raw or scrap materials, why I can't I do that in airsoft? I understand a custom fabricated airsoft gun won't be allowed everywhere, like MILSIM tagged events because of it's aesthetics, but I know before I start.  

  

It will be interesting to hear from event organizers about the PDR and UAR replicas and their acceptance in an event. 

[Inq Eisenhorn]

The only way you'll free yourself from the VCRA limits is to make the guns look like lime green beach balls.

 

The idea isn't for someone who's memorized every weapon in history to look at an object and turn their nose up because it's based in fantasy.

 

The idea is for someone who has no idea what a firearm is to feel safe and secure when they see one.

I know, however, there is a legal line. If a member of the public saw what they thought was me carrying an AK47, and the ARU turned up and found out I was in fact carrying a French Baguette back from local Tesco I wouldn't be up on a charge under the VCR-A, so clearly it's not JUST about what the public perceive to be dangerous weapons. Public fear is perhaps first line, however it's the official investigation that follows where things get interesting. The VCR-A makes it very clear what the law regards as a RIF, so anything outside of that is exempt.

 

Please let's not make this thread about the VCR-A, it was one factor, and IMHO, not necessarily the most important or even most interesting aspect of the debate. I don't want to smother debate and conversation, but there's so many threads on the VCR-A this doesn't need to be another one. If it starts to trundle down that well worn path I'll request the mods close this thread.

[Danke]

For the sci fi guns I think they're evolving out of a few root causes.

 

People clamping down on copies. Why make a copy that may get you sued when you can make your own vision.

 

Variety is another one. Every news thread about a new AR or AK has a legion of anti-fanboys chiming in to beg for something different.

 

Then More acceptance by the public at large. People who don't live and breath firearms are becoming involved and they don't care if what they use is exact copy of an issued military rifle. They want it cheap, light, and reliable.

[kenxin]

I've noticed what seems to be a fast growing trend, airsoft makers producing airsoft guns NOT based on real steel rifles. It seems companies are gradually moving away from producing replica guns, and the market seems to be accepting this shift. Guns like the APS UAR, GHK G5, and probably even more prevalent, M4 variants with home grown additions specific to airsoft, for example, the front ris system on the WE Raptor, or the rail system used on the G&G Raider, or even the ICS CXP weapons, the list goes on.

 

Personally, I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad thing. The big selling point of airsoft over say, paintball, was it's homage to realism, the fact that we could buy guns that mimicked real weapons up to the point of firing a bb rather than a round. The whole hoha over the VCR-A and the creation of UKARA (in the UK) so we could have access to Real Imitation Firearms....and now we seem to be gradually pulling away from real steel, I wonder where we'll end up as a hobby.

 

On the other hand, trying to mimick real world guns means airsoft is restricted in its scope to what's out there, and it's hardly as if new real gun systems are being developed daily. Then there's the whole license issue, barstewards like Umarex and Cybergun buying up every license they can and then placing a strangle hold on the market, not to mention recent events between KWA and Kriss.

 

If airsoft is allowed to plot it's own course, independent of the real steel arms industry, we will see awesome designs like the G5 and the UAR become an everyday occurrence? Will the technology and system feedback progress further because rifles are no longer restricted to having to fit into a M4 or AK frame set? Will we see (in the UK) a complete freedom from the clutches of the VCR-A as potentially guns look less and less like real steel weapons and become more defined by the fact they fire bb's (I'm imagining guns like the stuff from Mass Effect!!)

 

Or will we ultimately end up with flashy coloured Nerf-guns? I mean, G&G have already considered it's a good idea to release a pink M4, and who can forget the Thundermaul?

 

What do you guys think? Debate!

The thundermaul was originally copied from a resin kit from Poseidon.

 

Also, I see no problem with people buying the pulse rifle from aliens or any other sci-fi-looking thing to skirmish with. If it looks cool to you, get it and enjoy it.

[renegadecow]

For me, the act of picking up an airsoft machine gun is in itself a fantasy. Boil it down and we're all really just playing pretend with expensive toys and kit so using non-real guns like from sci-fi flicks or even unique creations isn't too big a jump. It would be though if you're playing a game with specific rules like milsim etc. but for the usual weekend skirmish it's no holds barred.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I guess another positive aspect of companies doing their own thing is the avoidance of criticism. Companies making M4's etc constantly come under fire if this is out to the real thing, or so and so makes a better replica. A new design will be judged on it's own merits and is free to generate it's own fan following.

 

A good example, people tend to hate the G&G Combat Machine because of it's toy like trades and being unfaithful to the hordes of Colt traded M4's out there, however the guns themselves are very good indeed.

[talon_0315]

I like the fact different semi-realistic Airsoft guns are coming out. So long as they use the same mags and are reliable, I'm down with new stuff.

[Swerve]

There has to be room for both accuracy in replication AND also innovation in design. Airsoft as both sport and hobby.

[Gliderrider]

The thing with a market economy is that if you dont like something, you dot have to buy it!.

 

I thought the thundermaul was based on an anime gun, pulse rifles arrived because ppl were asking for it, Personally, id like a sterlin/ clone blaster from star wars.

[Swerve]

I'd like a 450+ fps  lever/gear/rack cocking bullpup sniper rifle that you cock with your left hand.  Many would see such a thing as a step too far

[thatguy404]

Raises the question really doesn't it.
Form over function?

Would you skirmish a gun that was far superior to any other model on the market, IF it didn't look like a real firearm?

 

I'm talking PTW trigger response, accuracy that bests everything else on the market etc etc.

[ninja master of coffee]

There have always been some not-so-realistic airsoft guns, it's not something very new. I think most guns will continue to be pretty much direct replicas with some others that either have had some creative license or are pure fiction. I don't really think it's a problem, certainly not for a regular skirmish. Obviously at a more mil-sim or reenactment type event something fairly fictional might raise some eyebrows or actually be banned. I really don't think it will have a bit of impact on things like the VCRA for a couple of reasons, first, the definition of a RIF under the VCRA is something that looks sufficiently gun like for a member of the general public to mistake it for a real gun and secondly outside of airsoft NO ONE CARES IF WE USE DIRECT REPLICAS OR THINGS THAT ARE A BIT FUTURISTIC!! Even if you told them we did, most people's response would be "why are you talking to me?"

[T3CH]

There have ALWAYS been 'fantasy' designs in airsoft

 

Anyone remember the Thunderbolt?

 

 

I've frequently found myself looking at NERF guns and getting 'ideas'  Some of them would make really good 'futuristic' SCAR type weapons.  And I welcome any design that is comfortable and useful, that uses EXISTING magazines, (UAR, Thundermaul, etc), BUT it has to perform as a skirmishable AEG/GBB, otherwise it's just a wallhanger/plinker.

 

I also welcome ANYTHING that prevents cybergun or any similar group who thinks that simply slapping painted trades on a gun gives them the right to remove PRE-EXISTING models of those guns from sale.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

The point isn't so much that Fantasy guns have always been around, it's more that we seem to be seeing more and more of them. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I really wanted to open the debate about where we think this trend will take us, is it a positive step or negative? And does anyone know why this trend seems to be picking up pace?

 

I can think of a heap of positive factors for this becoming the mainstream path for airsoft (ESPECIALLY IF I GET MY MASS EFFECT GUNS)

[Im going space]

If a widow / black widow hits the market i dont care how much it is im buying it.

[renegadecow]

I really wanted to open the debate about where we think this trend will take us, is it a positive step or negative?

Thing is people here are overly mature to give striking opinions on the matter. Now, try and post the same thread in places like Zero In and you'll see some excitement.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

The operative word was 'debate' not flame war. I wouldn't spit at Zero In much less start a discussion there.

 

Which brings me onto a side point. Regarding weapon realism, I've noticed that when a company brings out a new M4 the web is a buzz about how real it is, dimensionally and operationally, the media hypes it, and in many cases the manufacturer hypes it as well, look at Inokatsu, Vipertech, Systema, Prime, G&P etc etc. Now, when it comes to other platforms almost nothing is said, not by the manufacturers, much less the media. Those in the know are aware of how realistic a Real Sword AK is, same as the now obsolete KWA Kriss.

 

This being the case, leads me to think that realism may actually be more of a niche requirement, especially as such things tend to come at a hefty price.

[Deadmeat]

I like the idea of a fantasy design (perhaps it's because I just got myself a PDR!!?). Depends on the airsofters influences really... My influences are more from computer games or movies so the ideas can get a little more out of hand!

Namely; Pulse Rifle, futuristic CoD rifles, even the new Oblivion 2077 Tom Cruise rifle is a dressed up Magpul Masada!!

[Im going space]

I dont think the PDR counts (it was very nearly a real gun)

 

In my opinion, yes, new designs are a good thing, nothing but M4s, mp5s, aks and G36s gets boring. But they still need to resemble a gun otherwise whats the point? May aswell play with spud guns.

Also, mixing and matching the best bits (see GHK G5) is fair enough, or taking a bit of artistic licence with it. (It was originally meant to be an AK5c)

[ollie_ty]

As long as they are designed well I fully welcome them and Hope they bring out more.

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

[Baddbaz]

Don't forget the robocop pistol that was released a few years back ..

As for the new trend of non realistic guns , I am all for it if they have good build quality and decent internals / accuracy / range .

I remember hearing that. The firearms company's had approached aps to maybe use the uar design for a real steel version . Or was that just hearsay / flannel that was put out to people ... ?