Woolwich

[Wild_XIII]

I have never heard of a Buddhist kicking off.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22356306

[scorch]

Well bugger me.

[Baddbaz]

Religion is the cause of most of the worlds grievances . So glad I am an atheist

[Azubi]

No, people are the biggest cause of most of the world's grievances. Some just like to exploit religious teachings by using dodgy interpretations in order to meet their end goals, just like others like to use bad economic times or a terrible crime in order to push their own agenda.

[hwagan]

Religion is the cause of most of the worlds grievances . So glad I am an atheist

 

 

I'd say it's more the pursuit of individual money and power and the inappropriate usage of religious beliefs as an excuse, personally. Militant atheists me off as much as religious extremists; Seriously, it's an overused phrase but why can't we all just get along?

 

The way I look at it, people turn to religion or whatever other belief system for a fairly simple reason - We are immensely, ridiculously, unfathomably insignificant in the universe; There is absolutely *fruitcage* all reason for humanity to exist, and no real consequence if it doesn't except to ourselves. As a result, we have an innate urge to attempt to justify or explain our existence, and give purpose to our lives.

 

The human brain, being that it is what it is, tends to like things with a defined beginning, middle, and end. Okay, so science has proved the big bang theory, some particles knocking together created everything. What put those particles there? Whatever put those there, what put that there? And so on. 

 

Science can't explain everything ever, because there is more to existence than humanity will ever be able to comprehend or understand. Still, it's doing a pretty good job so far, so a lot of people believe in science, including myself.

 

Some people on the other hand find science either difficult to comprehend or believe - As a result, they use religion to justify their existence, and the enormous majority of these people are just like the rest of us, trying to find meaning in a meaningless story. 

 

I don't mean to sound depressing or anything, I mean we're insignificant in the nicest of ways - What I mean is, Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jew, whatever - We're all trying to find something to explain the why and how of our existence and give purpose to it.

 

Every single mainstream religion - Every single one - Is based on texts hundreds if not thousands of years old, written and re-written and translated again and again, and can be interpreted pretty much any way you chose. Personally I think before science was really a thing, people just wrote nice stories on how everything came to be to try and make sense of it, usually with a gist of 'be nice to people', and threw their own personal slants on other religions and practices in there, with the intention of having a bunch of people sharing their beliefs. 

 

Now, obviously, we have science, and it's explaining a lot of things people couldn't have known when said texts were created - Sometimes people are so set in their beliefs they refuse to accept science, and while it might seem silly, what's the problem if it doesn't harm anyone?

 

I suck at this type of post, but the general gist of what I'm getting at is thus;

 

Religion doesn't cause wars. It's used as an excuse by people to start wars, in exactly the same way animal rights, climate change and many other things are. The problem isn't the belief system, it's the person - Who, whether they'll admit it or not, are attempting to force their beliefs on others for personal gain, because as human beings, every single thing we ever do, including taking a bullet for someone, is directly or indirectly for personal gain of some sort. I'm typing this post to get my opinion across, but deep down I'm hoping people will agree with me and maybe hit the like button and thereby boost my self esteem somewhat. If you're taking a bullet for someone, your brain is telling you the risk of death is worth the rewards of being a hero, and so on. 

 

 

So, religion itself doesn't start wars and it's not utterly retarded to believe in something - Science hasn't conclusively disproved God, or any other advanced being capable of things we don't understand yet either. X religion isn't responsible for Y problem - C person is responsible for Y problem, and twists X religion to justify his or her actions.

 

The only thing I believe is that lots of stuff confuses me, I'll never understand all of it, and I'll believe whatever you can prove or disprove with solid, irrefutable evidence and facts. But I'm also aware some things will never be proven or disproven, so I'm not going to outright deny or argue those things because of what I believe.

 

To summarise;

 

Saying all religion is stupid makes you stupid.

Saying me not believing in your God is stupid.

Trying to force your beliefs on me is stupid.

Mocking someone else's beliefs because you disagree is stupid.

Using religion, atheism, or how cats are treated on the internet to start a fight is stupid.

 

Getting along with everyone, accepting everybody's beliefs as long as they don't infringe yours, and being a reasonably nice person whatever you chose to believe is not stupid.

[amateurstuntman]

Desolation - that wasn't aimed directly at you, just seems to be parity.

 

Hwagan - depends how you define stupid.

 

I have mentioned that there is another thread just for this purpose and this isn't the place but I believe all religion to be stupid.

I know I have a broken brain and I view everything as black and white and have an unmeasurably low EQ but the way I define stupid:

 

Low IQ, lack of situational awareness, low capacity for solution thinking.

 

Is definitely not me.

 

 

You could say that saying all religion is stupid is a generalisation, inflammatory, controversial - certainly.  Stupid - no.

 

Thousands of years ago our genetic ancestors looked up at the sky and were frightened.

They didn't have the education, sophisication or cultural knowledge base to understand existence so they made up some reassuring *suitcase*.

Unfortunately *suitcase* sticks.

 

Why we can't leave that *suitcase* behind baffles me, we don't use flint tools any more, we don't die from toothache, we don't live in caves.

 

Let's start acting like it.

[hitmanNo2]

One word, money. Get rid of religion and whole lot of people will lose out on their free ride.

[hwagan]

I still don't think all religion is stupid; I mean, plenty of people I know believe in some aspects of religion, but have ditched the ridiculous bits. They believe in the same deities, but they interpret the text in a sensible manner.

 

I dunno, I still think it's a bit unfair to say all religion is stupid - Hell, even if nothing else, religion has been key in the evolution of human civilisation. There's also still the fact that whilst you can't prove in a God, you can't disprove one either. 

 

What if 200 years from now, Science establishes we're a molecular level experiment conducted by enormous space-llamas? I'm aware that's unlikely, but show me the evidence it's completely impossible

 

Like I said, I'm not religious, but I don't see any harm in it. Bad people will always do bad things, with or without religion to try and justify it, so blaming religion helps nobody.

[amateurstuntman]

That would be pretty awesome.

[Baddbaz]

I still think these guys should be charged as murderers not terrorists . Why give any more propaganda to these extremists .they have been denounced by every group i so let them be charged with what they are , murderers

[hwagan]

I still think these guys should be charged as murderers not terrorists . Why give any more propaganda to these extremists .they have been denounced by every group i so let them be charged with what they are , murderers

 

 

I'm in full agreement on this part - The media are the terrorists, for the simple reason that terrorism would have absolutely nothing without them. If it wasn't for the media immediately reporting any connection to Islam to make a quick buck, there'd be no stigmatism attached to the religion as a result, and the EDL wouldn't immediately get all their *fruitcage* failed-abortion-should-have-been-chucked-out-with-the-afterbirth followers on the streets yelling inane about something they couldn't dream of having the intelligence to even begin to comprehend.

 

Why report the fact they've yelled something about Islam, when the story should read 'Today, a brave soldier was unfortunately murdered by two crazed drug addicts'? Why give terrorists a platform? Just report terrorist incidents as what they are; Horrific crimes. Ignore the ideology and the reasoning behind it, and just mock the perpetrators as sad, lonely, mentally beyond help individuals and smear them in the worst possible ways. 

 

What's going to get someone else on the bandwagon better? 'Warriors of Islam murder British soldier with the aim of creating an Islamic state' or 'Weirdo loners with hard drives full of animal porn murder innocent man as part of twisted twilight fan-fiction fantasy'.

 

I should have mentioned; I'm tolerant of basically everything besides extremists, and the only thing I hate more than extremists - The *fruitcage* media. Responsible for more deaths, misery and societal collapse than any other thing in the history of earth, all in the name of personal gain. You want to sell papers? Dig up the one time the father of a murdered child smoked weed and when he kicked a neighbour's dog, and then at the bottom of the article 'He is not actually a suspect'.

[Mike_West]

Why report the fact they've yelled something about Islam, when the story should read 'Today, a brave soldier was unfortunately murdered by two crazed drug addicts'? Why give terrorists a platform? Just report terrorist incidents as what they are; Horrific crimes. Ignore the ideology and the reasoning behind it, and just mock the perpetrators as sad, lonely, mentally beyond help individuals and smear them in the worst possible ways.

"They were also black.", as any poor excuse for TP would add.

 

What's going to get someone else on the bandwagon better? 'Warriors of Islam murder British soldier with the aim of creating an Islamic state' or 'Weirdo loners with hard drives full of animal porn murder innocent man as part of twisted twilight fan-fiction fantasy'.

The latter doesn't "insult anyone's religious sensibilities", so no entitled *Ubar* is going to bleat about it in the press later. And nerds? *fruitcage* the nerds. "Always *fruitcage* the nerds" is something of a rule in the poor excuse for TP media turned into lately.

 

I should have mentioned; I'm tolerant of basically everything besides extremists, and the only thing I hate more than extremists - The *fruitcage* media. Responsible for more deaths, misery and societal collapse than any other thing in the history of earth, all in the name of personal gain. You want to sell papers? Dig up the one time the father of a murdered child smoked weed and when he kicked a neighbour's dog, and then at the bottom of the article 'He is not actually a suspect'.

Here, the right-wing media give me the fits with their Commie-era rhetoric, and the more mainstream ones annoy me by being the voice of all entitled *Ubarflock* bleating about being "insulted" and "discriminated" in one way or another (especially when they're not).

[Baddbaz]

These guys played the system like pros and the media helped feed it . Now they have to be dis credited and shown for everyone to see the sad twisted individuals they really are . . The Muslim community leaders came forward fast this time to denounce them . So a big thank you to all of them for this gesture ..

[Mike_West]

These guys played the system like pros and the media helped feed it . Now they have to be dis credited and shown for everyone to see the sad twisted individuals they really are . . The Muslim community leaders came forward fast this time to denounce them . So a big thank you to all of them for this gesture ..

If the "Muslim community leaders" come forward next time some unshaven mong goes shouting "behead those who insult the Prophet" or something like that, or packs of unshaven mongs beat people up in the streets for having a pint, and denounce those too, I may change my opinion of them.

But as far as I know the world, they won't.

[Cannonfodder80]

If the "Muslim community leaders" come forward next time some unshaven mong goes shouting "behead those who insult the Prophet" or something like that, or packs of unshaven mongs beat people up in the streets for having a pint, and denounce those too, I may change my opinion of them.

But as far as I know the world, they won't.

Then that makes you part of the problem. Creating splits in society and causing mistrust and hatred between communities is playing right into the hands of the scum who commit these acts. If we're going to fight extremists then why help them?

[spetsnazdave87]

If the "Muslim community leaders" come forward next time some unshaven mong goes shouting "behead those who insult the Prophet" or something like that, or packs of unshaven mongs beat people up in the streets for having a pint, and denounce those too, I may change my opinion of them.

But as far as I know the world, they won't.

 

They do. Frequently. Majority of the terrorist plots foiled in the UK in the past few years (and the one recently in Canada) were foiled because those community leaders you like to rag on so much reported members of their congregations for harbouring extremist tendencies. It's just that as Horgan says, a hundred honest, upstanding Imams who love their adopted country and want to stamp out extremism don't sell as much papers to people with views like yours as one nutter with a sign.

 

Seriously, quit with the 'unshaven mong' comments, put the islamophobic/racist ###### back in the box and grow up. As Cannonfodder says, people with views like yours are EXACTLY part of the problem. Right wing pillocks on facebook do more to publicise these extremists than anyone else.

[gunnermaniac]

Mike_West, just stop.

[Skarclaw]

'Today, a brave soldier was unfortunately murdered by two crazed drug addicts'

 

if you want that sort of wank as a headline read the sun...

[Habakure]

Ah the scum, spreading hatred since it was first printed on bog paper.

 

Edit:- was going to mention a story, the bbc website ran a few years ago, about a tank breaking down on a motorway. Can't find the original story. It was either, they said it was on a flat bed truck and fell off, when it didn't. Or, that they said it was driving along and crashed into the verge, when it was actually on a flat bed and fell off.

[Mike_West]

They do. Frequently. Majority of the terrorist plots foiled in the UK in the past few years (and the one recently in Canada) were foiled because those community leaders you like to rag on so much reported members of their congregations for harbouring extremist tendencies. It's just that as Horgan says, a hundred honest, upstanding Imams who love their adopted country and want to stamp out extremism don't sell as much papers to people with views like yours as one nutter with a sign.

All right. I don't trust anyone representing a religion, because I already learned that they're often frauds who willfully exploit their naive flock for their own gain, or - even worse - lunatics trying to introduce the purely theoretical, mythical order of things invented thousands of years ago by some similar lunatic on a bender. I saw those types tolerated by their hierarchical superiors and subordinates alike, and I saw them whine about being "persecuted" when someone tried to bring them to justice.

If someone breaks the law, I don't care what his excuse is. He deserves to get his *albatross* whooped and put behind bars. And if he starts whining about being "persecuted", he should get a good shoeing for that one too. Because there's way too much pussyfooting around extremists that will pretend to be harmless victims the moment someone tries to curb their criminal activities.

[Habakure]

You don't trust anyone representing a religion? Seems a bit harsh. I know a fair few people who follow a religion and I would never say, I don't trust them.

 

I treat everyone on an individual basis. I've met idiots who are against religion and for it. Doesn't mean a thing. Bigotry is an offence to human nature. Break the law, you get punished. Not breaking the law, leave them to it.

[Skarclaw]

I think (sure he'll be able to clarify) that by represent he means a leader or some kind of official rather then your average believing joe

[Wild_XIII]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22785074

 

So it begins...

[spetsnazdave87]

 

Situation reminds me of FInch's speech from V...

[Baddbaz]

Education deprived league attack apparently