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coolurjets

PTS closing down?

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That is NEVER going to happen. Magpul would be naive to think so.

Totally agree.

Production of ACM Magpul stuff might be limited to some degree and that's all.

Not mentioning it's not only the problem of counterfeits being sold from China directly - we have here two big wholesalers with a lot of these in the offer, for example.

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That is NEVER going to happen. Magpul would be naive to think so.

 

110% agreed! its impossible to stop counterfeits, the only way would be another brand making better and cooler products, so people would just switch from magpul to these new ones.

 

They can only stop counterfeits in the USA and the biggest eshops, small ones or local shops will be able to get and sell acm magpul products easily, in fact, it is stupidly easy for retailers to buy acm counterfeits, except in the usa, that is.

 

I refuse to think magpul is as naive as their words imply

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Big companies trying to stop counterfeits is like government trying to ban porn or Hollywood trying to ban torrent... such a backwards way of thinking. If PTS has the license, at least they have a deal where Magpul is getting some money off it, by terminating the deal, not only they get nothing from replicas being sold, now when they release new products, instead of copying Magpul PTS, ACM Industry will have to copy the real Magpul, so there won't even be any indicator that they are replicas, muddying the water even further for the real steel community... abeit none of these would come to an amount substantial enough for Magpul to care about... I'm just struggling to understand what they are trying to achieve. 

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They will only care about maintaining their relationship with their US customer base, they dont want retailers ordering the wrong product (either because of greed or stupidity) or end users buying from the Internet (either because they are trying to make some savings or stupidity).

 

By making anything not coming direct from their factory or their distributes in the States illegal it makes sure that only their products should be on the shelves or making their way into the hands of shooters. The rest of the world they dont care about as any non US military users will come straight to them for stocks etc through contracts etc.

 

The bubble that was Magpul being one of the very few in the Industry who see the value in the airsoft market has burst, at least for the time being.

 

Random question, how many of us are now thinking about getting rid of their PTS Masada or PDR? I had been considering selling off my Masada for a while but this is making me think about it seriously... (which is a sad thing to say)

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Random question, how many of us are now thinking about getting rid of their PTS Masada or PDR? I had been considering selling off my Masada for a while but this is making me think about it seriously... (which is a sad thing to say)

 

Im not a masada user myself, and while I like Magpul products, I dont follow them closely, but, isnt the masada a Bushmaster rifle now? IIRC correctly, they bought the rights off Magpul, so PTS should be able to keep the support.

 

Other option is getting the A&K version, which I dont know if cybergun or humarex got the license from, if it is from PTS, well, they are pretty much in the same boat...

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Random question, how many of us are now thinking about getting rid of their PTS Masada or PDR? I had been considering selling off my Masada for a while but this is making me think about it seriously... (which is a sad thing to say)

 

I for one am going to intently keep my Masada and my PDR for fear of not being able to go back!!  I did have some spares which I thought about selling in the past, but now they are firmly staying in my stores for keeps!

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They are ares internals anyway so I can't see a problem with any spares for them . Very few parts apart from externals are specific to these guns ...

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They are ares internals anyway so I can't see a problem with any spares for them . Very few parts apart from externals are specific to these guns ...

 

I thought there was a big hoo-hah about this when it first came out and PTS were adamant the PDR did not have Ares internals? 

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Ares piston ,ares cylinder ,ares gears , tappet plate , trigger micro switch , hop up . How much more ares does it need , to not be an ares gun ..

The hoo haa was the manufacturers and retailers denying the fact because it would put people' off buying them.and damage sales , S&t,star, ares and a few more all the same shared internals . . Just for the record it is not a bad gun once it has been fettled and the ares , yes ares motor has been launched ..and the front of piston shears off exactly the same as every other ares gun that is pushed too hard or run too fast . Not a bad point , just one its better to be aware of .

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I don't think this situation will make the Masada or PDR more desirable (unless for wall hanger collectors) after all, the very reason you guys would be selling is also the same reason to avoid buying.....lack of spares or future support will kill an airsoft product faster then you can say Domestos.

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I don't think this situation will make the Masada or PDR more desirable (unless for wall hanger collectors) after all, the very reason you guys would be selling is also the same reason to avoid buying.....lack of spares or future support will kill an airsoft product faster then you can say Domestos.

 

That's certainly the logical way to look at it - can't see the opposite coming true at all. The PDR and Masada are hardly classic designs at this point in time and are relatively common today. 

 

Less Ford GT40 and more Ford Focus. 

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Ares piston ,ares cylinder ,ares gears , tappet plate , trigger micro switch , hop up . How much more ares does it need , to not be an ares gun ..

The hoo haa was the manufacturers and retailers denying the fact because it would put people' off buying them.and damage sales , S&t,star, ares and a few more all the same shared internals . . Just for the record it is not a bad gun once it has been fettled and the ares , yes ares motor has been launched ..and the front of piston shears off exactly the same as every other ares gun that is pushed too hard or run too fast . Not a bad point , just one its better to be aware of .

It's not ares, because it's not ares. Simple as that. And that's because it's Star, not Ares. The Masada is built by whoever makes Star stuff after Ares quit doing so.

 

Onto the actual topic. I could imagine MP don't give a white fly about the international market, that likely will be flooded by replica products. As for the US market, they likely will have some impact with this move

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It's a shame for the people who have their airsoft solutions revolve around the Sainted Costa, Magpul and PTS gear.

As you can tell, I'm not one of those people (There wasn't much Magpul stuff in 1960s Vietnam, so it's not an issue for me)

 

As to PTS's descision, it's based on their business profitability- however much you tear your heart out, they are not a charity and are in the game to make money

Now, when PTS got into the airsoft market they must have set out a business model that took into account the clones that would doubtless spring up- and at some point this must have been acknowledged as a risk to the long term profitability of the enterprise.

 

Airsoft is all about clones- EVERY airsoft RIF is a spiritual clone of a real piece of kit.

It's part of the game- factor it in.

 

PTS clearly never got to a point where they could out compete the clones in terms of quality/cost ratio:

A real AFG is £35

A clone AFG is £12

When you have the choice, is the more expensive one obviously £23 better enough to be worth it?

 

Then factor in that PTS have- historically- had supply issues... PTS was an accronym meaning Out Of Stock.

So you can't meet supply, your quality is better but not better enough to open many wallets in these cash strapped times.

Innovative- for sure.

But not fast enough.

 

It's a shame.

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It's a shame for the people who have their airsoft solutions revolve around the Sainted Costa, Magpul and PTS gear.

As you can tell, I'm not one of those people (There wasn't much Magpul stuff in 1960s Vietnam, so it's not an issue for me)

 

As to PTS's descision, it's based on their business profitability- however much you tear your heart out, they are not a charity and are in the game to make money

Now, when PTS got into the airsoft market they must have set out a business model that took into account the clones that would doubtless spring up- and at some point this must have been acknowledged as a risk to the long term profitability of the enterprise.

 

Airsoft is all about clones- EVERY airsoft RIF is a spiritual clone of a real piece of kit.

It's part of the game- factor it in.

 

PTS clearly never got to a point where they could out compete the clones in terms of quality/cost ratio:

A real AFG is £35

A clone AFG is £12

When you have the choice, is the more expensive one obviously £23 better enough to be worth it?

 

Then factor in that PTS have- historically- had supply issues... PTS was an accronym meaning Out Of Stock.

So you can't meet supply, your quality is better but not better enough to open many wallets in these cash strapped times.

Innovative- for sure.

But not fast enough.

 

It's a shame.

I have a real one and a clone and there is quite a big difference in quality however at the end of the day they bth perform in the same way.

 

Just depends on how much of an airsoft snob you are.

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That is very true , I have seen numerous people whilst I have been spending time in pas do this .

They pick up the g&g magpul clone ish m4 guns say how nice they are and feel and then as soon as they realise or get told its not actually a magpul branded gun they put it down and move to the magpul stuff ..

After all its functionality and quality that should count , not the branding. Some People unfortunately have sheep mentality. When it comes to brands .

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A lot of people want the genuine article Industries/PTS stuff because.. they want Industries/PTS stuff.  That's about all there is to it.

 

To them, looking cool and having 'the' gear is what counts.  If some people disagree with that mentality that's absolutely fine, they're welcome to spend their money however they like; but it's really no reason to label others as being dim-witted animals.

 

No I dont mean you're a snob, but you know how some people will just buy for the name rather then the function.. If you get me.

 

Understood.  That said however, I'd say a snob is someone who buys the expensive stuff then proceeds to go to a game and make insulting or derisive comments about other people's 'inferior' kit.  The act of just purchasing/owning something isn't really the deciding factor.

 

It wouldn't be unfair to say that some folks are very selective in their purchasing, but I'm yet to ever meet anyone with a lot of high end guns/equipment who also has an active disdain for those who use cheaper stuff.  On the other hand, met plenty of people who've insulted me for doing what they class as 'stupidly wasting money on airsoft' as if they had access to all my bank accounts.

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I think some of the problems arise when manufacturers start off with a high quality premium product that then becomes popular , they then get greedy and either increase the price because its in high demand , or take the other route which is to reduce its quality but still charge the same premium prices .. Eventually people get smart to this and stop buying their product and move on to the next manufacturers goods .

One thing I have learned in buying Airsoft guns is that price Dosnt always reflect the quality , value or longetivity of the product.

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A lot of people want the genuine article Industries/PTS stuff because.. they want Industries/PTS stuff.  That's about all there is to it.

 

To them, looking cool and having 'the' gear is what counts.  If some people disagree with that mentality that's absolutely fine, they're welcome to spend their money however they like; but it's really no reason to label others as being dim-witted animals.

 

 

Understood.  That said however, I'd say a snob is someone who buys the expensive stuff then proceeds to go to a game and make insulting or derisive comments about other people's 'inferior' kit.  The act of just purchasing/owning something isn't really the deciding factor.

 

It wouldn't be unfair to say that some folks are very selective in their purchasing, but I'm yet to ever meet anyone with a lot of high end guns/equipment who also has an active disdain for those who use cheaper stuff.  On the other hand, met plenty of people who've insulted me for doing what they class as 'stupidly wasting money on airsoft' as if they had access to all my bank accounts.

 

I get your point and ment no bad intentions or ill feelings towards anyone. Just mearly stating that to some brand name is worth more than the function of the item itself as explained better by Baz but also I mentioned that clone quality over the genuine artical has a big difference to those who look hard enough.

 

The great thing about airsoft is you can buy and do what you want to..

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I think some of the problems arise when manufacturers start off with a high quality premium product that then becomes popular , they then get greedy and either increase the price because its in high demand , or take the other route which is to reduce its quality but still charge the same premium prices .. Eventually people get smart to this and stop buying their product and move on to the next manufacturers goods .

One thing I have learned in buying Airsoft guns is that price Dosnt always reflect the quality , value or longetivity of the product.

 

I've got PTS P/E/TMAGs (among other things, grips, sling points etc) from a wide range of time periods.  From the initial batch of PMAGs all the way to the quite recent TM EBBR versions and most stuff inbetween so I can say with certainty their quality has not decreased, if anything the materials have gotten a lot better and the products more robust.  The quality of the Maglinks for example which hit the market not long ago easily rival a lot of other polymer RS firearm accessories I've got.

 

How the prices have changed over the years I haven't closely followed.  Based on what I've been told I've a strong suspicion that any increases that have been seen are very largely down to the PTS distributor in the UK getting greedy much more than the actual wholesale price out of the factory increasing.

 

The great thing about airsoft is you can buy and do what you want to..

 

Quite correct.

 

Unfortunately (speaking generally here leo, not at you), it seems that unless one creates a loadout so generic that nobody's actually able to tell what any of it is apart from 'airsofter', you will most of the time get jibes and implications that you're homosexual (presuming you were hetero to start with) come your way.  Purely because you bought an M4, your pouches are tan, your stance is 'wrong' or you once ate an ice cream of a flavour that the other person isn't particularly partial to.

 

I mean.. who the hell likes rocky road anyway?  Weirdos.

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 I mean.. who the hell likes rocky road anyway?  Weirdos.

 

 

If you're not eating legit Ben and Jerry's then you're settling for the inferior and I'm therefore better than you. :P

 

 

 

As I said in another thread, it's a shame this happened before the airsoft MOE shotgun stuff got made.

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