WE-Remington ACR.

[WTF?Shane]

Looks like it's going to be another week. Or so what I was told. I asked CWI Airsoft about the further delay and this is what they responded:

 

 

Yes SIR:
The WE Said  need one more week to releae
because of the re-production  about the gas mag shell
it is a little  wrong from the injection
kust on more week  to be in stocks

or You can cancel the order, we can refund Your payment first
and we will reply and let you know when the MSK in our stocks

My Best Regards
CWI Airsoft

Robert

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Looks like it's going to be another week. Or so what I was told. I asked CWI Airsoft about the further delay and this is what they responded:

Which email address are you using to contact them? I'm getting no response. I'm gonna cut my losses with this and opt for a refund. It's clear both WE and BBDragon have no real idea when this rifle is going to be available....well done WE, you done f@*ked it up again.

[NonEx]

Hmmm... Problem with the PMAG shell or complete re-design due to legal problems ?

 

God damnit if they don't release them with PMAG replicas!

[kagami]

I don't understand what you are saying, since the WE MSK has the pistol grip moulded into the lower of the gun, so it isn't swappable.

 

What I was saying is that I wish they made the model with interchangeable pistol grip.

 

Also, if WE ever do, I highly doubt that it would not be replaceable with RS grips, as is the deal with all of their other AR pistol gripped guns.

 

WE normally try to make it as compatible with RS as possible so if the PTS is off-spec I think they would adjust for that (if they for some reason did copy PTS).

 

 

 

Also, BB GunWorld retail shop have just posted up a pre-order post on Arms-Cool forums;

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-141953-1-1.html&usg=ALkJrhjb47xQcVbGoaRLUksIAOQoXEv-Cw

 

 

Listed price is 7900 TWD, or 264 USD. So expect the prices offered to internaltional customers right around the 300 USD mark!

 

Bit dissappointing that it is only pre-orders, is really thought it would drop today as we are now at the end oj WE's stated 10-14 days after Facebook announcement.

Maybe some delays due to feedback from what has been shown, or legal battles going on. Who knows... Hope to see it soon!

 

At least there is still news and activity around it from retailers, which would suggest it is not entirely dead just yet.

 

beating a dead horse. Let's see if I can't make this any clearer.

 

WE copies stuff. PTS ACR has non removeable pistol grip. WE most likely copied the PTS ACR.

 

therefore the WE ACR has a non removeable pistol grip. You said you wished they opted for a removable grip and here I am saying "no, WE likes to cut down on R&D costs by copying as much as needed/possible.

 

edit: All WE "ar gripped" rifles are replacable with real ones. the many WE and M4/16/416 owners have real grips on them.

 

edit edit: WE definitely does NOT copy RS as much as possible. have you seen a WE M4 compared to a real one? and the fact that their SCAR line uses a near exact trigger assembly as the M4 as well. cuts down on production costs. 

[WTF?Shane]

LOL. NonEx is just wishing they went with the updated version of Remington ACR. It would've been definitely a better looking rifle. No need for arguments.

 

[NonEx]

Uhhh.. Okay... Maybe I wouldn't have to "beat a dead horse" if you could write in sentences that actually make sense.

 

Looking at the PTS ACR it's not even the same version of the rifle. Polymer handguard, fixed stock, different flashhider and different gasblock etc.

IMO I don't think they copied the PTS, but that's all speculations from both of us so not worth arguing over.

 

Why are you stating the same point I did in my post? (WE AR RS grips)

 

Also, I wasn't refering to WE making exact 1:1 copies of RS rifles inside and out, but I meant in terms of being able to put RS stuff on the rifles.

 

I know for my WE M4 I have replaced basically everything with RS parts except upper, lower, outer barrel and internals.

 

I'm not sure how the internal FCG relates to it being like RS. You have to draw the line somewhere or else you end up with a real rifle...

 

Thanks to the fact that WE use the same internal platform in their rifles they can release many more models than anyone else. I for one find that a good thing.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

 

edit edit: WE definitely does NOT copy RS as much as possible. have you seen a WE M4 compared to a real one?

Ahh man, I read this kind of bullshog all the time, and when it comes down to it, it's some nerd with a set of verniers beating off over a couple of millimetres.... It's ridiculous. Are you able to post pictures of how 'far' out the WE M4 is compared to the real M4? Or if you don't have access, then can you actually detail in words how it differs and by how much?

 

When all is said and done, NO ONE buy's WE products because of their collectibility, that's reflected in the prices you pay. But if you can put some facts behind your statement I would appreciate the learning.

[kagami]

"Also, if WE ever do, I highly doubt that it would not be replaceable with RS grips, as is the deal with all of their other AR pistol gripped guns."

- NonEx

 

Yes my mistake, the double negative threw me back saying that you "doubt it would not be replaceable" meaning the same thing as "you think it will be"....heh.

 

 

 

Uhhh.. Okay... Maybe I wouldn't have to "beat a dead horse" if you could write in sentences that actually make sense.

 

So I said this....

 

I'm talking about the pistol grip too. When I said they probably copied PTS dimensions I meant they probably copied PTS dimensions.

>>>  so no swappable AR grip. <<<

 

and then you say this...

 

I don't understand what you are saying, since the WE MSK has the pistol grip moulded into the lower of the gun, so it isn't swappable.

 

Yet you seem to not understand what I was saying here/think it was "incoherent" so let me word it into a single sentence so you'll understand better. WE PROBABLY COPIED PTS WHICH IS WHY THERE IS NO REMOVEABLE GRIP. The externals clearly would be different to accomodate for the GBB system. The fact that the PTS comes with a fixed stock and polymer handguard? Guess what. They're called accessories. The PTS has a folding stock too! (who would have guessed right?)

 

And so tell me, if "at some point you have to draw the line so it doesn't end up like a real rifle" then externals are what matter to you in making a realistic rifle yes? nearly every airsoft gun for the past how many years since this sport been going on have there been guns that look/feel are externally similar to their real counterparts?

 

 

Also Inq, do you want a comparison seriously between the different GBB rifle systems? The WE actually gains points in the external realm, the WA system stock in fact is the one that is "off by a couple millimeters." Of course, ignoring the fact that a WE M4s take  real upper receivers without having to get an aftermarket lower, the WE is the only GBBR that contains a "trigger box" which is by and large the most inaccurate system from a realism standpoint. The choice to do so is obviously, by creating a modular trigger group, it creates a system that can be used in multiple guns and I am in no way discounting WE for doing so.

 

The question here isn't what is the most realistic gun, it's the fact that someone is claiming WE attempts to "replicate" RS to the best of their abilities which is false. Look at the WA system which had not only a near accurate representation of a M16 firing group, but an actual moving carrier. (compared to the WE's closed bolt system, again done for performance.) Superseding the WA system is the VFC which not only has the proper scaling for receivers, the firing mechanism is even more accurate shapewise to the M16.

 

Do you want me to post pictures explaining the differences? Sure, PM me. I've been doing my GBBR homework for a good amount of time and while I don't ever claim to be an expert on any system, I do know a fair share of the differences between the two.

[Brigg]

Uhhh.. Okay... Maybe I wouldn't have to "beat a dead horse" if you could write in sentences that actually make sense.

 

Looking at the PTS ACR it's not even the same version of the rifle. Polymer handguard, fixed stock, different flashhider and different gasblock etc.

IMO I don't think they copied the PTS, but that's all speculations from both of us so not worth arguing over.

 

Why are you stating the same point I did in my post? (WE AR RS grips)

 

Also, I wasn't refering to WE making exact 1:1 copies of RS rifles inside and out, but I meant in terms of being able to put RS stuff on the rifles.

 

I know for my WE M4 I have replaced basically everything with RS parts except upper, lower, outer barrel and internals.

 

I'm not sure how the internal FCG relates to it being like RS. You have to draw the line somewhere or else you end up with a real rifle...

 

Thanks to the fact that WE use the same internal platform in their rifles they can release many more models than anyone else. I for one find that a good thing.

 

 

Id say that externally, the WE AR platform is the closest to the real AR15 as anyone makes right now, really. I have modified RS uppers on all of my WE AR's. And on my M733 variant, I have all real steel furniture, buffer tube, stock plate, front sight, etc.

 

I ha vent seen any other Airsoft AR even come close as far as externals go.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Also Inq, do you want a comparison seriously between the different GBB rifle systems? The WE actually gains points in the external realm, the WA system stock in fact is the one that is "off by a couple millimeters." Of course, ignoring the fact that a WE M4s take  real upper receivers without having to get an aftermarket lower, the WE is the only GBBR that contains a "trigger box" which is by and large the most inaccurate system from a realism standpoint. The choice to do so is obviously, by creating a modular trigger group, it creates a system that can be used in multiple guns and I am in no way discounting WE for doing so.

 

The question here isn't what is the most realistic gun, it's the fact that someone is claiming WE attempts to "replicate" RS to the best of their abilities which is false. Look at the WA system which had not only a near accurate representation of a M16 firing group, but an actual moving carrier. (compared to the WE's closed bolt system, again done for performance.) Superseding the WA system is the VFC which not only has the proper scaling for receivers, the firing mechanism is even more accurate shapewise to the M16.

 

Do you want me to post pictures explaining the differences? Sure, PM me. I've been doing my GBBR homework for a good amount of time and while I don't ever claim to be an expert on any system, I do know a fair share of the differences between the two.

 

Right, I think this discussion is going into the realms of sillyness. First up, anyone who expects an airsoft replica to mimick the internal functions of a real rifle is pretty messed up. So with that in mind, clearly we're talking about the externals. Why do I care if the internals 100% mimick a real rifle when I'm firing a 6mm bb and not a 5.56 NATO round? Sure, I prefer rifles that disassemble like the real gun, and I like the fact that in principle the internals are "like" the real gun, but I'm not interested in the internals being spot on.

 

Id say that externally, the WE AR platform is the closest to the real AR15 as anyone makes right now, really. I have modified RS uppers on all of my WE AR's. And on my M733 variant, I have all real steel furniture, buffer tube, stock plate, front sight, etc.

 

I ha vent seen any other Airsoft AR even come close as far as externals go.

 

Well, I can't say for 100% as I've never held or used a real AR15, but at a guess, and from reports for US users who have used real AR15's, here is a list of manufacturers that may be produce more realistic replicas than the WE M4:

 

Vipertech

Inokatsu

Bomber

Prime

VFC

[NonEx]

I think it's time to get this thread back on track about the release of the WE MSK

 

Anyone got any fun news to contribute ?

[WTF?Shane]

Waiting till Saturday.

[kagami]

Hm, really torn between being a test dummy and possibly (more like hopefully) picking one up before they sell out OR waiting for not even established feedback on the gun but confirmation that someone has it in their hands...

 

I emailed CWI the same thing and they gave me the same next week story. V21S.com has it on preorder too which reflects a September release.

 

So far the retailer (with plans to be) stocking the MSK are:

 

- CWI BBDragon

- EBAirsoft (funny because I remember them trying real hard to obtain/maintain a PTS license back when were selling ACM Magpul stuff)

- V21S

 

 

does anyone know any other retailers in HK or Japan having them on preorder yet? 

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I would wait till these guns are out. If WE release these guns there's no way WE will be limiting production. All this talk about Magpul and PTS (IMHO) is just internet gabble, lips smacking to pass the time. Just look at WE's range, every single gun made without a sniff of a licence. You honestly think companies like Umarex and Cybergun want competition from WE for the licensed products they produce? If those guys can't stop WE, good luck to Magpul PTS having a go.

 

So hold on to your green until retailers have the gun in stock ready to go......then you can be the official Armies test pilot

[AG1212]

Yeah you have a point, isn't the ''shape'' of the G36 supposed to be licensed to Umarex? Didn't stop WE from renaming the G36 to G39 and selling it anyway. Then again, I find it perplexing that they decided to make the SMG8 rather than a normal MP7...

 

Who the *fruitcage* really knows? I doubt PTS has *suitcase* on WE, they're just trying to restrict a niche in the market they have no plans of filling anyway.

[kagami]

What do you guys think about the US retailer side? IIRC someone posted back saying that they read an email from PTS pleading for retailers to not stock the gun

 

Really no explaination otherwise for it disappearing off Airsoft GI and Evike's webpages, they were making such a big fuss about it on their facebook page too lol

[Brigg]

Right, I think this discussion is going into the realms of sillyness. First up, anyone who expects an airsoft replica to mimick the internal functions of a real rifle is pretty messed up. So with that in mind, clearly we're talking about the externals. Why do I care if the internals 100% mimick a real rifle when I'm firing a 6mm bb and not a 5.56 NATO round? Sure, I prefer rifles that disassemble like the real gun, and I like the fact that in principle the internals are "like" the real gun, but I'm not interested in the internals being spot on.

 

 

Well, I can't say for 100% as I've never held or used a real AR15, but at a guess, and from reports for US users who have used real AR15's, here is a list of manufacturers that may be produce more realistic replicas than the WE M4:

 

Vipertech

Inokatsu

Bomber

Prime

VFC

 

Ive handled all of these and have done repairs/maintenance on them as well. Ive also owned several AR15s ranging from Colts to Bushmasters. The WE is the closest, externally, to a real AR15, to the point where with very little modification, real upper receivers will work on them. And with no modification, all RS buffer tubes and furniture will fit.

 

External finish is of course a different story but nothing that cant be solved with some Alumahyde.

 

But, none of the manufacturers you listed, to my knowledge, are size compatible with real steel upper receivers. Or at the very least, ive never heard of it being done.

[kagami]

Ive handled all of these and have done repairs/maintenance on them as well. Ive also owned several AR15s ranging from Colts to Bushmasters. The WE is the closest, externally, to a real AR15, to the point where with very little modification, real upper receivers will work on them. And with no modification, all RS buffer tubes and furniture will fit.

 

External finish is of course a different story but nothing that cant be solved with some Alumahyde.

 

But, none of the manufacturers you listed, to my knowledge, are size compatible with real steel upper receivers. Or at the very least, ive never heard of it being done.

 

 

actually ALL of the ones he listed are 1:1 real spec'd lower receiver GBBR's that are WA based or similar (VFC) that can take a real upper with little to no modification. I have a MUR-1A on my Prime lower.

 

seeing as how all of the above sans VFC are hard anodized to at least type II as well, they also have a nicer finish than the WE.

 

don't want to clutter w/ pics of not-an-acr so i'll just post an image link: http://i.minus.com/jbsLIW21q04oIM.jpg

[WTF?Shane]

And this has to do with the MSK because...?

[kagami]

you should check the other (original, seeing as how this is about the same exact gun) ACR thread. They're talking about law school.

[NonEx]

What a great excuse to go off topic on...

 

Seriously now, if it ain't about the WE MSK, don't post in here anymore. kthnx bye.

[NonEx]

Last page and a half on arms-cool is about them talking about the want for brass deflector. Hopefully it comes with the gun if WE have been paying attention or as an aftermarket part.

[hitmanNo2]

Is there any word from WE or speculation from the forum why it's not present? It seems so odd for it to just be forgotten.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Guys, there's no news about the MSK, and people are talking (albeit generally) about the potential quality of the up coming rifle. I know it can be frustrating to see a new post has been entered into a topic you're interested in only to find it's at a bit of a tangent, but I think in this case the discussion is still relevant.

 

In response to Brigg, if you had in fact been in contact with those rifles, you should have known instantly that they're as close as can be expected (from an airsoft rifle) to the real steel.....in fact, it's their selling point! and justification for the high prices. There are forums with whole threads dedicated to these rifles being "pimped" with real steel components. I'm not calling you a liar, but something is seriously off in your information if you think that a WE M4 is closer to the real thing than a Vipertech, Inokastu or a Prime based gun?!?

[NonEx]

Nothing official on the brass deflector that I can see.

 

I asked KIC Taiwain if they knew of the release date and price, but they had nothing at this point.