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WE-Remington ACR.

netwalker

By netwalker,
in Airsoft News

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Smoke

Smoke

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Don't get me wrong, I want this thing as well. It's just that it seems like PTS will do its hardest to make things difficult for WE in places where it can exercise its legal muscle.

I think it's more 'Market' muscle, than legal. If your business makes a lot of revenue from Magpul or PTS (now they're split an' all), then you'd certainly not want to make waves with them. Stocking this may not be the best plan for them.

 

But then given Magpul's departure from the Airsoft industry, are Airsoft retailers going to worry about ruffling Magpul feathers?

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NonEx

NonEx

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Problem is it's MAGPUL PTS going after it, whom have cut ties with MAGPUL (other way around I guess), so yeah. Doesn't seem right.

 

Would MAGPUL care since it doesn't have their name/brand on it ? They said they got a bad rep from poor airsoft stuff or whatever, but since this is unknown to anyone who isn't aware maybe they don't bother as much.

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Smoke

Smoke

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Problem is it's MAGPUL PTS going after it, whom have cut ties with MAGPUL (other way around I guess), so yeah. Doesn't seem right.

 

Would MAGPUL care since it doesn't have their name/brand on it ? They said they got a bad rep from poor airsoft stuff or whatever, but since this is unknown to anyone who isn't aware maybe they don't bother as much.

I recall it being mentioned on the PTS saga thread, that PTS maintain the licensing for Remington... amongst others...?

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NonEx

NonEx

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No I think the contrary was stated, earlier in this thread? :o

I am confused, I will have to look for it.

EDIT: See below.

EDIT 2: Right, I see what you are saying now, licensing for the actual RS Remington brand. That would make sense I guess, except you recall wrong, see below :P

No Remington nor Bushmaster in the list.

 

MAGPUL licensed the rights to Remington, and MAGPUL licensed it to PTS. But they (PTS, Remington, Bushmaster) do not hold the rights to issue further licenses to other third party manufacturers to make replicas (such as PTS, WE etc.).

 

Remington handle the deals with MLE for the ACR (semi/full auto), and Bushmaster (semi auto) cater to the civilian market.

 

 

 

EDIT quote reference

FYI, the real steel ACR as it is today is not owned by Remington. It is owned by Magpul and licensed to Remington. And thus, legally, based on the contract between the two companies (there is no provision for Remington to relicense the ACR in airsoft form) it is therefore not up to Remington to legally relicense the ACR for airsoft replication. Since Magpul has put a kibosh on all things airsoft related, they are working to ensure this does not happen. Now, if WE chose to ignore Magpul and Remington and release it anyway, well that's up to Magpul's and Remington's lawyers to address (they now have their own legal team in HK). How effective they will be will be interesting to see. But since WE do appear to have other Remington replica products coming out, it probably would be a bad idea to bite the hand that feeds you. *shrug*

 

So I don't see what legal basis MAGPUL PTS has to go after WE on this. ?

If their contract with MAGPUL was still in place, I could kind of get it. But ultimately I think it is MAGPUL that has to step in and take action.

 

If I understand correctly MAGPUL own the ACR brand and design, and also holds the actual licenses for it, but have chosen to "lease" the license to Bushmaster and Remington to produce it under their name?

So does that mean that they don't actually have any legal say in replicas of the rifle ?

 

PTS are only semi-responsible for copies of their specific model ACR, not the RS ACR, right?

 

 

EDIT2 quote reference

 

PTS has licensing exclusivity with:

Mega Arms, Rainier Arms, AAC, Centurion Arms, Battle Comp, GoGun USA, Ergo, Falcon Industries, Battle Arms Development, Griffin Armament, US Palm.

 

There are a few others I'm not allowed to disclose at this time.

 

Obviously with the current shift in priority (away from Magpul) all of these other brands will be brought to the forefront more so than ever before. There has been, and continues to be, a lot in development currently.

 

 

Apologies to uscmCorps for whoring his quotes, but the guy says alot of good things :P

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Smoke

Smoke

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Hah! Yep, that's the stuff I meant, albeit misremembered (stoner...) :P.

 

I wonder if the contracts, licenses, and agreements have simply become so convoluted that no-one knows who should litigate who...? :D

 

All a bit daft really over what must be small $ amounts in the grand scheme of things... But then what's the point in purchasing licenses if you're not going to do anything with them?

 

I'm reminded of Tesco's buying up land. Not to build, but just to make sure no-one else could.

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NonEx

NonEx

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New shooting video up:

 

 

 

Mother of god. dat rate of fire and consistency and no gas puffs... Looks and sounds amazing! :D

 

Arms-cool guys are commenting about the barrel shaking during firing, would affect accuracy. I guess, but what airsoft gun doesn't shake and wobble when firing ? :o

 

Doubt they put much time and effort into isolating the barrel from the body and BCG. I don't think it's much worse than anything currently out there though, right?

 

Polymer handguard kits semi-confirmed;

 

tjel.jpg

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Smoke

Smoke

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Accuracy is a huge deal for me with a GBBr. The barrel wobble does make me wonder how this is put together.

 

Do we know if they've replicated the quick swap system? Whilst nice, it makes me wonder how it'll hold up to recoil - I don't want to have to keep checking my barrel isn't about to drop off :P

 

Of course, like anything, it's all guesswork and conjecture until someone gets one, and opens it up. :)

 

Edit - Sorry, by accuracy I mean bb groupings... Not build... :P

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kagami

kagami

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NonEx, you were talking about the whole AR grip updated ACR thing before

 

seeing as how there is a polymer handguard, I'm 95% sure that it utilizes PTS dimensions. Not really an issue since it seems PTS/Real are interchangeable without much issue apparently.

 

If it's the WE I've seen in the past, they're not going to do anymore R&D then they have to.

 

edit: you guys have also probably seen the other thread, but a JP distributor has agreements with the manufacturer to receive fully trademarked "MSKs" in limited numbers. Guess you guys can grab one from them then. I assume that also means that other retailers may be able to get a hold of trademarked versions or they might be made in the future.

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NonEx

NonEx

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Smoke, have you not seen the official pics ? Yes the quick swap is replicated.

 

As for the grip, I was talking about the pistol grip, not forend grip.

 

Also, WE usually try to go RS spec from what I know so I hope this one is too.

 

There was a mention from Ghost Island about a 50m range test, but he said no info would be posted until the rifle is in final production.

 

Japanese marked version will dissappear in a heartbeat I'd imagine. Also, I don't have any secure channels to get stuff from Japan at this point, so I doubt I will be able to. But if it's awesome enough, and I am depserate enough, I will find a way :D

 

Also, regarding the above delay, as I suspected, saturday is the big drop :) (I would bet.)

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Smoke

Smoke

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Smoke, have you not seen the official pics ? Yes the quick swap is replicated.

 

 

I've seen a few pics, and a video that got me really excited (until I realised it was a real one) :D

 

I like the fact they've replicated the quick swap, but I wonder if that's what is causing that shakey barrel? I'd personally rather have a nice solid barrel nut that keeps everything in one place - but I know the collectors would slam WE if they'd done that.

 

I seem to remember the quick change system being a pita on the Masada AEG. I hope they've beefed it up a bit for a GBBr!

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Habakure

Habakure

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P90 is a no go after cybergun got involved. Pretty sure it's mentioned in a thread on here (fair few months ago, might do a quick search and see what comes up).

 

Edit; here we are:-

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/207751-an-update-from-james-of-we-tech/

 

 

On topic:- that polymer hand guard looks better imho.

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kagami

kagami

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Smoke, have you not seen the official pics ? Yes the quick swap is replicated.

 

As for the grip, I was talking about the pistol grip, not forend grip.

 

Also, WE usually try to go RS spec from what I know so I hope this one is too.

 

There was a mention from Ghost Island about a 50m range test, but he said no info would be posted until the rifle is in final production.

 

Japanese marked version will dissappear in a heartbeat I'd imagine. Also, I don't have any secure channels to get stuff from Japan at this point, so I doubt I will be able to. But if it's awesome enough, and I am depserate enough, I will find a way :D

 

Also, regarding the above delay, as I suspected, saturday is the big drop :) (I would bet.)

 

 

I'm talking about the pistol grip too. When I said they probably copied PTS dimensions I meant they probably copied PTS dimensions.

 

so no swappable AR grip.

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NonEx

NonEx

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I'm talking about the pistol grip too. When I said they probably copied PTS dimensions I meant they probably copied PTS dimensions.

 

so no swappable AR grip.

 

I don't understand what you are saying, since the WE MSK has the pistol grip moulded into the lower of the gun, so it isn't swappable.

 

What I was saying is that I wish they made the model with interchangeable pistol grip.

 

Also, if WE ever do, I highly doubt that it would not be replaceable with RS grips, as is the deal with all of their other AR pistol gripped guns.

 

WE normally try to make it as compatible with RS as possible so if the PTS is off-spec I think they would adjust for that (if they for some reason did copy PTS).

 

 

 

Also, BB GunWorld retail shop have just posted up a pre-order post on Arms-Cool forums;

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-141953-1-1.html&usg=ALkJrhjb47xQcVbGoaRLUksIAOQoXEv-Cw

 

 

Listed price is 7900 TWD, or 264 USD. So expect the prices offered to internaltional customers right around the 300 USD mark!

 

Bit dissappointing that it is only pre-orders, is really thought it would drop today as we are now at the end oj WE's stated 10-14 days after Facebook announcement.

Maybe some delays due to feedback from what has been shown, or legal battles going on. Who knows... Hope to see it soon!

 

At least there is still news and activity around it from retailers, which would suggest it is not entirely dead just yet.

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NonEx

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I understand that, sucks to want something and then having delays.

 

Guess it's CWIs problem to announce something is going out the door before it has even arrived to them.

 

I guess there could of been an unexpected delay and they got screwed over by that, but as far as it coming out last week, I dunno about that. But I really thought it would be out today.

 

Oh well. Maybe next week then :P

 

Actually I'm trying to remember how long before actual release BB GunWorld posted up pre-orders for other WE releases, and I can't recall exactly but it is usually no more than 1-2 weeks in advance. So that's good I guess?

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Inq Eisenhorn

Inq Eisenhorn

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So yeah, at the moment I'm more disappointed at CWI Airsoft for taking my money and originally claiming that it would be in stock last Saturday and shipping out this week.

Here in lies the problem. My guess is that the owner of BB Dragon threw this up on their website to gauge interest and pay for first off supplies of the gun.....effectively we paid a pre-order, nothing more. At least you've heard from BB Dragon, I have heard nothing....if it wasn't for me coming on here I'd simply be left in the dark.

 

I'm tempted to cancel my order with BB Dragon and wait until this rifle appears properly and THEN buy it, I'm not sure I like the idea of someone just sitting on my cash with no sign of a product to send me.

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Fox62

Fox62

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I'm tempted to cancel my order with BB Dragon and wait until this rifle appears properly and THEN buy it, I'm not sure I like the idea of someone just sitting on my cash with no sign of a product to send me.

 

If only it was just sitting. I bet they're doing things to it, bad things :P

 

 

Fox.

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