WE-Remington ACR.

[seagullman]

anyone ever buy from v21s?

[3vi1-D4n]

That basically says they want them to be used as training aids but they currently aren't.  I can't see why anyone would use airsoft over simunitions.

 

I see a lot of advantages for airsoft over simunitions in terms of performance, cost and safety. Airsoft shoots much further than simunitions but doesn't require the same level of safety gear even at 500fps. The down sides is that even a loud GBB sounds no where as loud as a silenced 9mm, so it doesn't really give off the same stressful environment as you would with operating with live or blank rounds, and airsoft requires maintenance and tuning (no airsoft guns are built to function flawlessly out of the box).

 

Simunitions does feel and sound more "realistic" (not by much), keeps supply chain similar (maintenance and parts are mostly compatible with RS with the exception of the barrel) and its relatively grunt proof. 

 

I can't see Regular units afford to buy airsoft as training aids, it will be targeted to specialist units similar to how simunition has been marketed towards. It will be competing against simunitions and UTM, but will lose as the latter 2 have better alignment to a department/units supply chain.

 

Though 3rd party training organisations may buy airsoft for training aids as that would make sense economically, or IPSC/3-gun competitiors looking for something cheap to practise with.

[NonEx]

Alright no need to get crazy it was just a theory. I skimmer through the arms-cool thread but can't find the text I was refering to. Maybe they were talking about the RS ACR and military use.

 

But, the fact is that I know there is a use for airsoft within MLE. I have seen posts from guys on here and GasGuns specifically mentioning it.

 

I also know of a Swedish retailer that has ties to Swedish MLE for training with airsoft.

 

So yeah, there is a market for it.

 

And as far as Simunition vs. Airsoft and not anyone wanting to use airsoft over simunition, uhh. what ?

See above and I can give more reasons but I don't think we need to go more OT than has been already.

 

 

Only sad thing for me is, I know that the delivery time from TW to me is most likely going to be 2-3 weeks...

 

At least that gives me time to ponder about how to accessories it.

 

Also hope they release barrel kits and fixed stock ASAP. Although the fixed stock is less flexible in terms of usage I think it just looks more bad *albatross*!

[WTF?Shane]

I would like to see a 10.5 inch barrel available in the near future.

[hitmanNo2]

Airsoft>simunitions basically is down to cost, and safety huh.  Range I think is irrelevant as we're talking primarily CQB. I would want my training to mimic what would happen in a real life situation as closely as possible that airsoft is just not up to. But hey.  Maybe that's just me.

[NonEx]

Yep, just you. Who cares about real life.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Airsoft>simunitions basically is down to cost, and safety huh.  Range I think is irrelevant as we're talking primarily CQB. I would want my training to mimic what would happen in a real life situation as closely as possible that airsoft is just not up to. But hey.  Maybe that's just me.

 

I think you make a valid point, but there has to be a balance between safety and reality when it comes to training. Airsoft offers certain benefits over simunitions, one of which is cost, safety being another.

 

However, I would seriously ignore any talk from manufacturers regarding their products being used for military training, it doesn't add anything to your own personal experience and/or the quality of the final product.

 

I don't know for sure, but I think people assume that if a product were to be used as a training aid to MLE agencies, it would therefore be a higher quality product. I wonder if the opposite is true. A private individual will doll out a lot more love and care for their airsoft gun than a Soldier would. I'm not saying a soldier would mistreat the equipment, but it's like anything, if it isn't your personal property you tend to NOT nanny it. The various departments who supply these things will know this is true, and will certainly seek out robust products (because it will no doubt take a beating), but also they will seek out cheap products that can be easily replaced and maintained. This is why I doubt (STRONGLY) any MLE department is using PTW for training......

[WTF?Shane]

OK. So about that ACR or MSK...

 

Day two of CWI 'next week shipping' and no updates.

[hitmanNo2]

Yep, just you. Who cares about real life.

I'm talking if I was MIL/LEO.  I would want the closest to what I would experience on the job.  GBBRs are fine for airsoft 'training'

[Inq Eisenhorn]

OK. So about that ACR or MSK...

 

Day two of CWI 'next week shipping' and no updates.

 

To be honest I didn't expect to hear anything anytime soon.....these fuzzy 'next weeks' are all the same. I'll be happy if this rifle comes out and I can get one, if not, I'll go back to plan A.....gathering my collection of Vipertech's :)

 

Oh, and I'll be wanting a refund as well.....of course.

[NonEx]

I got word that wednesday will have something happen. At least price point will be determined as far as I know. Other than that, if WE follow their release pattern, saturday this weekend might be the big drop!

 

Also, PMAGs will be priced same as WE M4 STANAG GEN2 mags. Woop woop!

[Smoke]

This must be a serious headache for retailers!

 

Someone at WE needs to research the concept of a Product Launch

 

I asked MilSpec Solutions (my UK WE retailer of choice) for any info on FB. They've said that they've placed a pre-order but have no real info either. So how do WE Europe expect them to market the product? With rumours and maybes??

 

On the plus side, I'm looking forward to Gen2 stanags going for buttons in the classifieds, as the people with modern builds swap over to Pmags .

[NonEx]

My retailer works with a Taiwan distributor so not WE EU, maybe that's why it's different.

 

I can imagine Taiwan and Asia are in for the first wave, and EU getting it later.

[NonEx]

Some sort of pre-announcement made from a retailer over on arms-cool;

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-141561-1-1.html&usg=ALkJrhg_JstcbAd-xO46BqDhikWwu660Tw

 

 

Not sure if it's like "call your local store for pre-orders" or if they are hosting some sort of hands-on preview of the rifle. But something is going down

 

Also, original thread has been stickied at arms-cool in the rifles section;

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-141108-11-1.html&usg=ALkJrhjJeXUawPBlJnkGooxcwB-7S5NuhQ

 

 

The new pics posted is some sort of comparison to RS ACR of the FCG.

[AG1212]

Just imagining a gun-case with the ACR, a nice selection of barrels, hand-guards and stocks along with plenty of mags in foam inserts....Hnnnnngggggg

[seagullman]

i just cant wait until a us customer gets his first acr.... then ill be conident enuf to order lol

[NonEx]

Just imagining a gun-case with the ACR, a nice selection of barrels, hand-guards and stocks along with plenty of mags in foam inserts....Hnnnnngggggg

 

I doubt that would fit in a "gun case", that would require a container

 

But yeah, would be awesome!

 

 

What are you guys' feeling about the lack of markings?

 

The real one doesn't seem to have much to speak of, no flashy logos, company names or slogans. Is the grip and magwell texturing still in the form of MAGPUL logos mashed up, on current Remington production ones?

 

I am bothered by the fact that the WE bolt is stamped with 5.56 and not MULTI-CAL, why do WE have such a hard time catching those small details ?

Although someone told me that some ACRs actually have a 5.56 stamping on the bolt, so I dunno.

 

 

The RS Remington ACR upper appears to have a serial number on the right side in the form of S/N ######. Left side has MODEL - ACR, CALIBER - MULTI. Some pics I also see the place of manufacturing on the left side.

 

Also, depending on model and year (I think) the RS rifles are riddled with MAGPUL logos. Those I can do without and just imagine it's a non MAGPUL ACR

 

 

Wondering if there will be a AFC / full marking version of this, seeing as how the ones on the real one are fairly non-descript and non-copyrighted (?) they could of been on there already. So a full markings version seems unlikely ?

Right, just realized also that the term ACR is protected I guess so that would be problematic. But on the WE model they could just put MSK instead?

 

 

Also, another thing I don't get, both with the RS and the WE... Why the heck is the grip fixed on the lower? For an Adaptive Combat Rifle why not have an interchangeable grip from the get go?

I have seen some ACR lowers with that feature but can't figure out which is which in regards to that.

Either way, would of liked to see WE make that model instead.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

@ NonEx

 

It's taken me many years to come to terms with this fact, but in truth, very few airsoft replicas actually replicate their intended real steel counterpart in anything but the most superficial aspects. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but in general most airsoft products are simply loose interpretations at best.......WE as a company are by no means the worst producers, in terms of replicating the RS, but they are also far from the best.

 

This MSK is going to be a (relatively speaking) approximate copy of an ACR, period. Go in with those expectations and you will be a happy man. Expecting anything like Vipertech levels of realism and you will go mad with anguish and false hope.

[NonEx]

Thanks man, that kind of calmed down my OCD. How much do you charge for therapy sessions ?

 

I guess you are right. Gotta take it for what it is, it's not gonna change and it's either this or no GBBR ACR for me.

 

I really need to learn to accept that for everything in life... stupid OCD and perfectionist ######

 

But, as for the question. Why is it that, they put all this (presumed) time and money into making something so close, approximate as you say, that the additional little details that would put a replica above and beyond wouldn't be anything in the grand scheme of things. Why don't they just sit down an extra day or two and pick up on those details. It just seems so stupid.

[WTF?Shane]

OMG. I need this thing yesterday.

 

Still no updates with CWI and the UPS tracking number they gave me. Really hoping they at least keep with their word of shipping it out by this week.

 

Like you guys mentioned above, not really worried about the small design flaws. As long as the design is at lease 80% accurate to its real steel counterpart and functions properly, I'll be content.

 

NonEx, about the ACR with the fixed grip vs the AR grip, Remington updated the ACR. I haven't looked much into it, but the other changes from what I saw was an updated charging handle similar in function to the Kriss Vector.

[calbur20]

FYI: Magpul PTS has been sending emails out to retailers like crazy asking them NOT to stock and sell the WE ACR on, you guessed it, copyright grounds. Got to see the email first hand and they do not mince words. So, you can probably expect that this particular gun won't be sold anywhere that Magpul PTS has enough legal muscle to enforce their IP. US is definitely out, including parts of Europe. Asia, not sure. 

[Smoke]

FYI: Magpul PTS has been sending emails out to retailers like crazy asking them NOT to stock and sell the WE ACR on, you guessed it, copyright grounds. Got to see the email first hand and they do not mince words. So, you can probably expect that this particular gun won't be sold anywhere that Magpul PTS has enough legal muscle to enforce their IP. US is definitely out, including parts of Europe. Asia, not sure.

I would have thought if they actually had a legal case, they'd injunction the product directly at WE? Writing to the retailers seems more an act of desperation, than a tangiable threat. Although of course a retailer lookin at stocking Magpul/PTS products may want to consider which side their bread is buttered...

 

I'm far from an expert on the matter though.

[NonEx]

Yeah, agree with Smoke.

 

If it's MAGPUL PTS sending out the notices. I guess that would apply if it was a copy/clone of the PTS ACR.

 

This would be a matter for Bushmaster/Remington and the real MAGPUL, no ?

 

Anyways, it will be difficult to get a hold of but it will be out there.

 

Thank god for being first in line on a Taiwan release of this

[calbur20]

Don't get me wrong, I want this thing as well. It's just that it seems like PTS will do its hardest to make things difficult for WE in places where it can exercise its legal muscle.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

This is going to be interesting to watch. The MSK appears to be making BIG waves, people who actually manage to get one of these rifles will have quite the collectors item, it seems.

 

Expect the price to go up as this airsoft grail object becomes a thing of myth and legend.

 

With regards to BBDragon, my gut instinct is that they have been a bit too quick off the mark with taking orders for this gun, and I fully expect they will either begin to cancel the orders they have or will struggle to fulfil those orders as planned. What's really stupid (on their part) is that they haven't updated their website to show that they may or may not be able to supply the MSK.....tomorrow is Friday and so I'm 100% certain they will fail to ship these on time.

 

I'm almost at the point where I'm considering avoiding anything to do with Magpul or Magpul PTS on the simple grounds that I don't like to be bullied and commanded in my purchasing habits. First up is the damocles sword of "NO MORE MAGPUL PTS PARTS!!" and now they're trying to restrict the production and distribution of products they have no intention of ever making.....just cause they feel they can! This MSK, if the rumours of Magpul's pull out of the airsoft market is true, hurts neither PTS or Magpuls business interests....or perhaps Magpul feel people will buy this rifle mistaking it for the real ACR?!?

 

So, while I'd like one of these guns, I'm quickly losing interest