TAG 40mm launchable grenades and more available for international players

[Lancaster]

We actually have TAG operated cannon here in Russia. It has no rifeling inside the barrel but projectiles are modified and have stabilizers like an arrow. Range of 150+ meters and chalk+pyro inside the rocket

[Nickona]

Slightly late to the conversation but from what I can understand these are essentially the same as those TSFlx mortars except with being slightly rifled. Now I know it says  no stabilization and some people reckon airsoft is allowed because its smooth bore but if you were to use these out of a smooth bore launcher then wouldn't that be largely the same?

Also if they made a smooth grenade shouldn't that also be okay?

[JCheeseright]

The shell for these is rifled though, chucking a rifled shell into a smooth bore M203 will still be technically illegal. I don't think they'd fly anywhere near as far or as accurately without that rifling.

[Nickona]

But what about something like an airrifle? I know its slightly different but I'm sure theres loop holes

[pkm200901]

Is there any word about the smoke grenade projectiles being available in the US?

[bruin757]

Is there any word about the smoke grenade projectiles being available in the US?

As far as I know, the smoke grenades are still in the testing/producing phase. I didn't think they were available for anyone.

 

 

I just got my first package of TAG grenades. Thought I'd give my initial impressions.

 

Ordered on Jan 3, and they arrived to my location on east coast USA on Jan 17th. Not too shabby. Everything packaged well and arrived without problems. I received one box of Peckers (yellow dummy rounds) and one box of Paladins (blue marker rounds) with the launcher shell.

 

I don't have a CO2 charger at the moment, so I fired two dummy rounds about a half-dozen times each using both Propane and Green Gas. I was very surprised by the distance. I didn't get an accurate measurement, but it was shooting an easy 200ft-300ft with the wind. Rounds were getting a nice spiral going. You definitely want to hit it with a generous amount of silicone oil before shots. I was surprised by how much wear the rounds received just from exiting the launcher.

 

Aiming was a different story. It's going to take some practice. I didn't come anywhere close to hitting the chosen targets. Requires a much bigger arc than I expected, and I haven't figured out yet how high to aim. I just hope that the Paladins shoot similarly to the Peckers because I have an event this weekend and can't practice with the marker rounds.

 

Despite my aiming difficulties, they're a lot of fun to shoot, and I'm looking forward to using them in an event this weekend.

[PMO Gordo]

I am still waiting for my order placed on Dec 21st. People said package from Russia have wildly different arrival time, from weeks to months. I could be just unlucky. Recommend getting a M203 leaf sight. Replicas cost around US $50, but real used ones can cost as little as US$ 25! The numbers on the leaf sight represent distances: 1 - 100 m, 2 - 200 m. And each ladder reprents 50m increment. Of course, they don't apply to Airsoft, but you can use the same principles to develop your own system.

 

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[M4_Fanatic]

What I'm more interested in is how the shorter rifled shell will affect the range and accuracy of the projectiles...

I'm no physicists but surely less rifling will mean less range and accuracy?

 

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[PMO Gordo]

What I'm more interested in is how the shorter rifled shell will affect the range and accuracy of the projectiles...

I'm no physicists but surely less rifling will mean less range and accuracy?

 

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I'm no physicist, either. But my understanding is that the "tightness" of the rifling, or twist rate, has greater impact on the range and accuracy of the projectiles. The larger the diameter of the projectile is, the less twist rate it needs. This is because it has greater inertia than smaller one, so it stabilizes easier. The length of the barrel does help with range, though. The longer the barrel is, the higher velocity the projectile shoots out. However, there is a balance between the barrel length and the amount of propellant. If the pressure in the barrel produced by the propellant diminishs too much before the projectile exits the barrel, the longer barrel will become a performance detractor. The pressure produced by Airsoft gas is usually less than 1000 psi, compared to thousands of psi produced by gun powder, so the barrel length should be short.

 

REF:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber_%28length%29

[Roland1014]

There are special chokes for slug rounds that, when installed, means you have a smooth bore with an inch or two of rifling on the end. That last bit of spin-stabilization at the end of the barrel is enough to keep up with accuracy of a fully rifled bore. Problem with airsoft is that unlike RS, chamber pressure is not enough to overcome any friction between projectile and barrel. This is why we have projectiles of smaller diameter than the barrels they are fired through.

[PMO Gordo]

There are special chokes for slug rounds that, when installed, means you have a smooth bore with an inch or two of rifling on the end. That last bit of spin-stabilization at the end of the barrel is enough to keep up with accuracy of a fully rifled bore. Problem with airsoft is that unlike RS, chamber pressure is not enough to overcome any friction between projectile and barrel. This is why we have projectiles of smaller diameter than the barrels they are fired through.

 

Actually, chamber pressure in Airsoft weapon CAN overcome A LITTLE friction between projectile and barrel. I just received my order from Airsoft Pyrotechnics today (a little more than a month of shipping time, probably due to holidays), and I'm amazed at the tightness between the projectile and the shell barrel. The main reasons why we don't see < 6.0 mm rifled barrel for Airsoft guns, I think, are the ease of loading / unloading, limitation of barrel length, and cost. Given the size and shape of a spherical BB, if it is loaded into a < 6.0 mm rifled barrel, it will not be possible to extract it without a ram. And the low chamber pressure of Airsoft weapons compared with real steel one will probably limit the barrel length to that of a derringer. Even if someone does make a <6.0 mm rifled barrel derringer, the cost will probably be too expensive for most players.

[bruin757]

Brought my tag grenades to their first airsoft event today, and I have to say that I'm in love. And my team is too.

 

Took 5 shots with the powder-filled grenades and killed 4 tanks   The one shot that missed hit a few branches on its way that knocked it off target (probably shouldn't have shot from that angle), but I was pleasantly surprised that the powder shell didn't crack and I was able to reuse that grenade. Distances were roughly 75ft to 20ft, and I was using green gas. It was a hell of a lot of fun. The tanks didn't know what hit them...literally. We had to walk up to the tank after the first one and explain they just got slammed by an RPG.

 

Can't wait to get out and use it again.

[PMO Gordo]

Brought my tag grenades to their first airsoft event today, and I have to say that I'm in love. And my team is too.

 

Took 5 shots with the powder-filled grenades and killed 4 tanks   The one shot that missed hit a few branches on its way that knocked it off target (probably shouldn't have shot from that angle), but I was pleasantly surprised that the powder shell didn't crack and I was able to reuse that grenade. Distances were roughly 75ft to 20ft, and I was using green gas. It was a hell of a lot of fun. The tanks didn't know what hit them...literally. We had to walk up to the tank after the first one and explain they just got slammed by an RPG.

 

Can't wait to get out and use it again.

 

At least you had the chalk marking to prove that you had scored a hit. Vehicles other than cars and SUVs usually have loud engine noise, which make the occupants hard to hear anything, including pyro. This is one of the reasons even organizers usually have refs following the vehicles.

 

This reminds me of a story. I was shooting at enemies in a 5-story building at OP Irene in 2012 when I felt a light touch on my helmet. At first I thought my teammate accidentally bumped into me, but then a ref nearby pointed at a Nerf rocket behind me. And I finally realized I was hit on my head by a Nerf rocket launched from the building. If it wasn't the ref, I probably would have shrugged it off as something else. This showed the chalk marker round's potential - the chalk "cloud" produced after impact would be a better indicator of hits.

[PMO Gordo]

With the weather finally got a bit better last weekend in the east coast, I finally got the chance to test fire the TAG system I purchased. I was going to look at the maximum range and accuracy at 60 ft, but the deep snow and frigid temperature made things very difficult. So I only demonstrated the potential range of the TAG system as well as the effects of the pyro projectiles in the video.

 

[Bando]

are these the same thing? http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/ics-russian-grenade-package

[paranoiddroid]

firesupport sell the yellow rounds and I believe the chalk rounds as well. TAG are meant to be bringing out a new inert round soon in white dunno exactly what it is. Also how do their hand grenades work? are they one offs or reloadable pyro?

[PMO Gordo]

firesupport sell the yellow rounds and I believe the chalk rounds as well. TAG are meant to be bringing out a new inert round soon in white dunno exactly what it is. Also how do their hand grenades work? are they one offs or reloadable pyro?

Correction. Inert / dummy rounds are already available. They look like pyro ones but without fillings. And my dummy rounds have white tips and black bodies instead of yellow tips and bodies shown in Airsoft Pyrotecnics' website.

 

What TAG is planning to sell in the upcoming months are the impact pyro and smoke projectiles .

[Tw1tch]

I am so excited about the smoke grenades. Need to grab a launcher and some of the shells in the meantime I reckon.

[paranoiddroid]

I am thinking of picking up a shell could be interesting.

[hitmanNo2]

We've established smokes will be illegal over here no?

[Number5]

I know there's been a lot of talk, but have we established if the pyro version is legal here? I've seen mortar and LAW type implements used at sites which effectively work the same way.

 

I WANT them to be legal, surely they are no more harmful than fireworks (which are not used in airsoft), so the use of these at a site should be down to individual sites right?!

[PMO Gordo]

I haven't got the chance to get exact measurement of the precision and range of the TAG system or my P.M.O.G. system due to the weather, but I will do it very soon. However, I think TAG system will win in precision and range based on my impression, but mine will win in ease of reload, carriage, and cost.

I chronoed the TAG dummy rounds (chalk rounds had similar weight, so I estimated the results would be similar) shot with 450psi of CO2, and they were flying at around 120-140 fps. The rounds weighed about 24-28 gm, and had an outer diameter of 3.6 cm. The maximum kinetic energy was about 26 J, and the maximum kinetic energy density was about 2.56 J/cm^2. If you refer to the chart I made a while back, you can see that they are safer than plastic BBs, and even safer than my system: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/210207-pmog-airsoft-40mm-projectile/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2635468

[PMO Gordo]

TAG just published this very cool slow-motion video of their products:

 

 

I wish I have the money for a high speed camera to make similar videos.

[PMO Gordo]

I was looking into test methods for thermal injury risks, and I came across this picture on the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission website: http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscpsc/7448609204/in/set-72157624386509428

 

Figure. Fireworks Dangers Demonstration: 2012. Display fireworks should never be used illegally by consumers. Last year, a 47-year-old man and his brother-in-law attempted to ignite a professional display firework. When it didn't go off, the man looked into the tube. The firework detonated. The man's head and face were gone.

 

Note that the picture depicted a person trying to ignite DISPLAY FIREWORKS. I don't think TAG pyro products are that dangerous, but insurance people may think otherwise after seeing the slow-motion video in my previous post. I think TAG needs to do a better job on demonstrating their product safety. Although my friend, a Russian descendant in US, said Russians don't care about safety. ;-P

[hitmanNo2]

Does Russia even have a word for safety?