Star M249 Para Examined...

[Trasher]

Regarding the CA SAWs, their appearance is a turnoff. The whole gun is black and doesn't look very realistic. The appearance of the STAR version is what got me interested in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guy selling a TOP SAW for the STAR because the looks of the CA is a turnoff. Oh boy...

[birddog]

I've owned the TOP, CA, and Asahi versions and though I like the feel of steel, I don't like carrying around a heavy piece of metal all day.

 

If the STAR looks as good as it does in Statics pics with the stated performance, I'll be quite pleased with it. The fact that a box mag is included with the purchase of the gun makes it an excellent value. Couple that with the modularity of the guns powerplant and the ability to quickly and easily swap gearboxes and it's obvious that a lot of thought went into their implementation of a design which was created by PGC.

 

That brings up a point; with this SAW replica, there's no additional expense. Open the box, install the batteries, load'er up with bbs, and she's good to go.

 

There's definately a savings in time and money not having to gather all the various bits to make this thing skirmishable. And to think of all the money I dropped on my PGC upgraded TOP SAWs.

Edited November 15, 2005 by birddog

[Trigger Happy10]

Well I cant wait untill I lay my hands on one of these. I plan to see it the aftermarket parts will work with the star m249. I really hope they will work, but that means then though uber raped m249.

 

[Slo]

The only potential trouble spot that I can see for this gun right now, is that before extra magazines are available, and something happens to your box mag, be it the loading mechanism, or the electrical contacts, or anything else - the gun becomes essentially useless.

 

Hopefully STAR will release both the cloth mags, and spare box mags soon.

 

Other than that, ohhhhh I'm checking the UPS tracking every five minutes waiting for it. :: drool ::

 

 

-Slo

[echotebarknwhale]

i got a question about the mkII version, does the battery fit inside the stock or is it just the same as the para version (as in the battery is fitted inside the box mag)

[airsoftgi]

The battery goes into the drum mag.

[luninhk]

i got a question about the mkII version, does the battery fit inside the stock or is it just the same as the para version (as in the battery is fitted inside the box mag)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can both place the battery in the stock or box mag.

http://www.starairsoft.com/S_AEG_03_7B.HTM

All you need to do is enlong the wire start from the gearbox to the end of the stock.

[Trasher]

That brings up a point; with this SAW replica, there's no additional expense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is always additional expense - especially with a high ROF, BB hose. You'll need a rail and red-dot, or an adjustable iron sight on the top of that STAR. You have to remove the plastic rear sight if you want to use an ELCAN/ACOG, or buy a railed feed cover. You will need steel parts kit for the bipod bracket, etc...

[birddog]

The expense of consumables is a given, but don't confuse the point I was trying to make. None of the items you've mentioned are neccessary for game play.

 

Like I said, load it, power it up, and pull the trigger. It's a turn-key solution right out of the box.

[AustinWolv]

How is that different from a CA249 for example then?

 

I see your point with a TOP PGC-converted SAW. I'll even give you the Asahi version since you need a gas rig (which I equate to having to get a battery anyway).

 

Yes, I've had them all, except the STAR, in case someone needs to question it.

 

The only potential trouble spot that I can see for this gun right now, is that before extra magazines are available, and something happens to your box mag, be it the loading mechanism, or the electrical contacts, or anything else - the gun becomes essentially useless.

That is the major problem I see with the gun currently. The easy electrical hookups are really nice, but lend to total gun failure versus being able to throw a stick mag in there during an emergency.

The other part I'd like to see is extended testing at higher-than-allowed-to-be-discussed-here muzzle energies. Any gun can run a SP100-110 for ages without problems.

 

One day of skirmishing with 5000 rounds tells me nothing.

 

Sounds like some are happy with the purchase, so hopefully things work out.

Edited November 15, 2005 by AustinWolv

[Misfit]

At my local site, someones new CA249 imploded, the gearbox was totalled completely. It was brand new too.

 

I'd go with a STAR.

[Trasher]

The expense of consumables is a given, but don't confuse the point I was trying to make. None of the items you've mentioned are neccessary for game play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The boxmag is not necessary for game play with the CA... Mine was ready to go out-of-box. I get steel frame, massive metal gearbox, metal parts, an M16 mag, and TOP external parts compatibility instead of a boxmag and solid case. It cost me $830 plus shipping.

 

With the STAR you get a lightweight, somewhat less realistic SAW (weight, feel, handling), made from cheaper materials. The autowinding boxmag is a nice feature. If the new plastic gearbox design is right, I bet it's good buy for the money. $600 plus shipping.

 

You get what you pay for.

 

So what's your point again? Sell TOP because it was an overexpensive money pit? Get STAR because it's cheap and works? Don't get CA because it's twice the gun for half the money than TOP?

[birddog]

So what's your point again? Sell TOP because it was an overexpensive money pit? Get STAR because it's cheap and works? Don't get CA because it's twice the gun for half the money than TOP?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You apparently have a problem with reading comprehension. Read the previous posts again, then reread, then reread it again. Until it sinks in

Edited November 15, 2005 by birddog

[staticzero]

Can you show a pic of the flashider removed from the barrel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here you go:

[Hillslam]

I think the Star is an interesting gun. I own the CA. No problems with it. I wore out the piston after 60,000 rounds using a *(above forum limits)* spring.

 

You'd be doing well with the Star if all you wear out after 60k rounds is a piston. Or any SAW. But I think the Star has a chance at it. It seems well enough built in the places it matters.

 

I'm with Austin - EXTENDED testing will tell us wether the QA is there.

 

I disagree on the two tone looking better than all black. I like the CA's all black choice as it is what the US military uses, not the two tone version, so for me its more realistic than TOP's or Star's.

 

As for the carry handle - I know of nobody's carry handle breaking on the CA. What can happen is you'd pull the outer barrel off of the gun if you aren't careful - because the carry handle is attached to the front out barrel and the front outer barrel is affixed the gun's body by friction (in the real steel you replace barrels with some frequency. Check the pelican cases for the real steel - extra barrel cutout right out of the gate). If the Star's front outer barrel is the same then it will have the exact same problem. Solution - don't go flailing it around by the carry handle (which is a misnomer) - OR - put in a set screw to affix the outer barrel to the body - there's a hole in place already for that. I'm waiting to hear why staticzero took his outerbarrel hing lever off. I'm betting it has to do with this.

 

Anyway - looking forward to more data, and get those guns on the field and use em like SAWs people! We need more saws on airsoft fields. Don't buy one of these, saving all that money, and then go cheap on bb hosing. Be the support Rambo that the M249 begs you to be! Booyah!

 

Power to the support gunners

[Hillslam]

Here you go:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ugh - tell me that nylon cord is not where you affixed the front sling point.

[staticzero]

I'm with Austin - EXTENDED testing will tell us wether the QA is there.

Agreed. But it's worth noting that 5000 rounds in a day is a lot for any other AEG, and it is evidence of initial quality.

 

As for the carry handle - I know of nobody's carry handle breaking on the CA. What can happen is you'd pull the outer barrel off of the gun if you aren't careful - because the carry handle is attached to the front out barrel and the front outer barrel is affixed the gun's body by friction (in the real steel you replace barrels with some frequency. Check the pelican cases for the real steel - extra barrel cutout right out of the gate).

What I've heard aside, I have held the CA, and the CA handle is much looser than the Star. It rattles. This is also noticeable with the CA para stock vs the Star, incidentally. This is to say nothing about them failing, I've seen no concrete data on that.

 

If the Star's front outer barrel is the same then it will have the exact same problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not. The outer barrel seems to be held in place quite securely. Definitely no quick barrel changed here.

 

Ugh - tell me that nylon cord is not where you affixed the front sling point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's it to you where I attach my sling? You the sling police?

 

BTW, please avoid double posting. There is an edit button...

Edited November 15, 2005 by staticzero

[birddog]

I shot several M249's while in the Army and not once did I ever see an all black version . Doesn't mean they don't exist, just means I never saw one.

 

staticzero.....how easy is it to get the front foregrip off? I'm wondering if an aftermarket RAS will fit in its place.

Edited November 15, 2005 by birddog

[Trigger Happy10]

I shot several M249's while in the Army and not once did I ever see an all black version . Doesn't mean they don't exist, just means I never saw one.

 

staticzero.....how easy is it to get the front foregrip off? I'm wondering if an aftermarket RAS will fit in its place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It looks like it should be compatible with aftermarket parts. I am hoping to try provided I do get a m249.

 

[staticzero]

how easy is it to get the front foregrip off? I'm wondering if an aftermarket RAS will fit in its place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't tried it yet, but we can see in the exploded view diagram that they just screw on. I don't know how it compares to other M249s though.

 

http://starairsoft.com/Large/SAA_M249_PARA_2A_L.jpg

[Hillslam]

What's it to you where I attach my sling? You the sling police?

 

BTW, please avoid double posting. There is an edit button...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know about the edit button.

 

Relax on the sling thing, I'm trying to be helpful - affixing a sling to the sights doesn't seem the best way to go. Eventually you'll move the front sight on its adjustment - if its not adjustable on the Star, well you're still torquing something you oughtnt. Now that I got home and could snap a pic, I can show what I mean - On the CA the actual sling point is metal (I circled it in red in the attached picture), but I needed more flexibility so I put a nylon loop thru the pintle mount point - see picture attached. I noticed you were using nylon cord, so you could probably thread it thru there just as easy if the Star has the pintle mounting. Rock solid, and convenient.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Hillslam

[Trigger Happy10]

I know about the edit button.

 

Relax on the sling thing, I'm trying to be helpful - affixing a sling to the sights doesn't seem the best way to go. Eventually you'll move the front sight on its adjustment - if its not adjustable on the Star, well you're still torquing something you oughtnt. Now that I got home and could snap a pic, I can show what I mean - On the CA the actual sling point is metal (I circled it in red in the attached picture), but I needed more flexibility so I put a nylon loop thru the pintle mount point - see picture attached. I noticed you were using nylon cord, so you could probably thread it thru there just as easy if the Star has the pintle mounting. Rock solid, and convenient.

 

Hope that helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah dude he was joking, look at the after his scentence. But I do agree with you that its not a great point to put your sling

 

[staticzero]

Yeah, I was kidding man. So CHILL. <- Note: Tongue sticking out face means kidding!

 

I am aware of the problems associated with mounting a sling to the sight post. I was merely experimenting with different methods of attaching my spare (rather inferior for M249 use but freshly won nonetheless) sling. I didn't realize we'd be turning it into a discussion. As far as I'm concerned, none of those spots are ideal as far as my preference goes. In my case, not having the proper sling precludes me from attaching a sling properly, if that makes sense...

Edited November 16, 2005 by staticzero

[Hillslam]

I know you were joking. I wasn't upset.

 

Someone asked if we could post side by side external shots of the Star and CA. So I took a little time and tried to shoot the same shots as staticzero on my CA. Apologies for some flashbulb-induced crappiness of the photos. VERY strong flash. Also - the closest thing I had to the background of staticzero's was a carpet...

 

Anyhow - I took most of the same pics. Skipped ones where I was lazy (disassembly) or there was difference (MkII vs Para) or there no need (box mag internals).

 

Also - Be gentle; keep in mind, this gun has been used. So please try to ignore the icky dirt and muck thats in some of the nooks and crannies.

 

Here goes - you can open this up alongside Pg1 of this thread and compare. I'll point out items where needed. Occasionally I had to adjust contrast and brightness to compensate for my flash and crappy photography. When a photo is untouched I'll note it. All photos are scaled to 25% to fit Arnies.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Front set.

 

BipodHinge

 

Front Sight

 

Flashhider. Note - I've bashed mine into several trees and have taken a set of chewing vice grips to it to remove a part (because I'm a moron) - so I've since painted it in semi-matte Krylon to cover the damage. Hey I use the thing, remember. Sue me. Note too that the inner barrel comes right up to the birdcage but doesnt protrube into it.

 

More Frontset stuff. Note I have a nylon loop thru my pintle hole for a more convenient (for me) sling point up front - I'm a leftie. Note lack of two tone. Note also wear on bipod metal. They all do that; Top, CA, and the Star will too. Oh yes. It will. Muh ha ha haaa *cough*

 

Bipod Foot. Star, TOP, CA - all same. Excuse crappy pic:

 

Feed Tray and Mag Well area. Note operating mag cover. Note also the color consistency between the front grip in lower left (polycarbonate) and the body (metal). Sometimes the flash makes it look like the various pieces are different colors. Thats illusion. They are not. Even in direct noonday sun. Also note the front outerbarrel lever is operable - and rests in back position (locked) - also note lever protection protrusion arc on the front grip sticks out abit on CA:

 

Trigger Grip Area. The speckly/sparkly effect on handle is an artifact of the flash, its not there in sunlight or to the eye. Thats the texturing of the grip though. Also note this entire subassembly comes off by removing the front hollow pin andt he rear stock pin (the one with cotter pin in it)

 

Main Body. Sorry. I tried this mofo 6 times and never got the damn thing in focus. Best I could do. Did a "sharpen" in photo editor. Didn't help much. Anyhoo, all metal.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Hillslam

[Hillslam]

Barrel Top.

 

Heat Shield

 

I skipped removing the heat shield to photograph. I'm lazy. But - its all hard metal, and held on like a rottweiler. Moving on...

 

Carry Handle detail arm area:

 

Note - my camera is making this look like its really super textured. Its not. Thats an artifact of the camera flash. Apologies again for crappy photography. Onward...

 

Rear Sight. What is this concept called focus? Sorry, best I could get. Later ones are better of rear sight. Duplicating angles here from pg 1 Star pics...

 

Rear sight from behind:

 

Right side of gun. cocking handle moves.

 

Mag Well open (sexy finger)

 

BONUS PICTURE! (just for you) Mag Well cover closed. This is the spring-loaded default position.

 

Since I don't have a para I skipped rear stock photos but took one rear area pic.

Here ya go. Note - I put my pin in reverse of staticzero. Doesn't matter really. Amuse yourself.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Hillslam