ChiefLouk Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Anything I can do? I feel like a fifth wheel, just watching... Link to post Share on other sites
dog1 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 +1 me and something to drink...please. Link to post Share on other sites
muiman62 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Wait, which states have banned it?!? I immediately assume California is on the list, although I don't think so... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> uh... why? socal has a huge airsoft community, sac has their own thing going, aex has 4 stores in california, airsoftgi also have stores in cali, santa clara has a popular field and these are only places some what near where i live. Link to post Share on other sites
ChiefLouk Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 +1 me and something to drink...please.  <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Done. Link to post Share on other sites
muiman62 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 That's all well and good, but to be honest I don't think is would do a bit of good. You see the big stumbling block is the US media. The press here in the states has a decided left wing slant and is very anti-gun. They are never going to accept, let alone potray in a positive and acceptable light a game in which players are shot (especially those under 18) with replica firearms. paintball was able to get grudging acceptance by the US media through getting away from the milsim aspect, and hiding the fact they are playing a wargame with PC terms like "marker" and "tagged out". The fact that their guns look like non-threatening water faucets does not hurt. Sadly, the portrayals and attitudes expressed by the media will largely shape the opinions of the public for better or for worse.  I don;t know if the eventual banning of airsoftin the US can be staved off, but I know it will not be acomplished via the media.  <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but we're allowed to play video games that portray way more violence than airsoft ever will. AND we're allowed to buy the video games for our kids if we deem it appropriate and most American parents dont care what video games their kids play. kind of silly isnt it. Link to post Share on other sites
ChiefLouk Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Video games can't inflict damage or physical pain upon another person, but airsoft guns can(unless you beat someone with the controller or console). You can't really compare airsoft guns to video games, no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites
playa Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I personally consider video games more dangerous than airsoft, because they glorify killing more than airsoft ever will. On the California thing, I said that because California has such a history of being against weapons. Btw, if anyone wants to +1 me for getting advice from lawyers... Oh, and I think that NAA is the best name. Link to post Share on other sites
ChiefLouk Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Btw, if anyone wants to +1 me for getting advice from lawyers... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Done. Link to post Share on other sites
systema Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Well, as a current resident of MA, I'm not too worried yet, but it is clear that specific politicians look to ban airsoft or replica guns (mostly for political reasons I would assume). It is never too early to start anything, and I think having a large, stable, running Airsoft Organization is a good idea, so we actually have some say. Â Like I said, I haven't been concerned much with the banning of airsoft, but I feel that I should look into it more, and all the VRC forum. If the plans to create a forum for such organization carries out, or requires help to achieve this, I'll be glad to lend a hand. Link to post Share on other sites
M635C Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 we need a national org. not just some forum and website. no we need a national registery of all airsoft players in the nation. we need to send petitions to cybergun cyma telling them their products ARE NOT welcome in the US and we WILL NOT buy them. We also need to sign a petition and send ti to the flordia legislature in an attempt to stop this legislation in its tracks Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 One last thought of the night, is anyone a member of the NRA? If a member of the NRA where to send it then I think we might get a better response. I'm off to bed, feel free to leave me a message... aim: EverReadyEverWil <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  I'm an NRA member and the answer is no. Quite frankly it won't make a bit of difference who sends the letter, anyways, since the NRA already has an established application process for organizations that would like affilation with them. NRA affiliation costs money, it requires you already be organized complete with elected officers and it requires a minimum amount of those officers be NRA members. If you don't send the proper application (and dues) then your request won't even be processed regardless of how nicely your letter is worded. Really, the application and information is available on the NRA website... perhaps you should do some research.  Once you are affiliated the NRA will not simply sweep down and fight your legal battles for you. They're not a charity and Airsoft is simply not a second amendment issue. At the most a ban on imitation firearms might get a brief mention in one of their publications, but it's not a topic they'll devote political or legal resources on. They might even end up working directly against you as their interest is solely REAL firearms, the people who don't like airsoft are often the same people who don't like real guns and many times sacrifices need to be made in the name of compromise. Link to post Share on other sites
Colonel Angus Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'm an NRA member and the answer is no. Quite frankly it won't make a bit of difference who sends the letter, anyways, since the NRA already has an established application process for organizations that would like affilation with them. NRA affiliation costs money, it requires you already be organized complete with elected officers and it requires a minimum amount of those officers be NRA members. If you don't send the proper application (and dues) then your request won't even be processed regardless of how nicely your letter is worded. Really, the application and information is available on the NRA website... perhaps you should do some research. Once you are affiliated the NRA will not simply sweep down and fight your legal battles for you. They're not a charity and Airsoft is simply not a second amendment issue. At the most a ban on imitation firearms might get a brief mention in one of their publications, but it's not a topic they'll devote political or legal resources on. They might even end up working directly against you as their interest is solely REAL firearms, the people who don't like airsoft are often the same people who don't like real guns and many times sacrifices need to be made in the name of compromise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  This is about what I was going to say. The NRA will allow your organization to crumble or even help your organization crumble if it helps your cause. I'm not saying in any way that the NRA is bad, heck you might even get some support from them, but if it comes to furthering thier reputaiton one iota and protecting airsoft they sure wont choose airsoft. Link to post Share on other sites
playa Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I was thinking about the NRA and the pros and cons of affilitation with it, and I was wondering what the average person thought of it. For example, evn though it would promote gun safety and we would be affiliated with a powerful lobbyist, what would parents, and more importantly, the media think about an organization which has become so controversial today? Link to post Share on other sites
Pain_is_Red Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 That's all well and good, but to be honest I don't think is would do a bit of good. You see the big stumbling block is the US media. The press here in the states has a decided left wing slant and is very anti-gun. They are never going to accept, let alone potray in a positive and acceptable light a game in which players are shot (especially those under 18) with replica firearms. paintball was able to get grudging acceptance by the US media through getting away from the milsim aspect, and hiding the fact they are playing a wargame with PC terms like "marker" and "tagged out". The fact that their guns look like non-threatening water faucets does not hurt. Sadly, the portrayals and attitudes expressed by the media will largely shape the opinions of the public for better or for worse.  <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  I have to totally agree here, what needs to be done is get as much positive press as possible to work in our favour. Airsoft events that donate the money to huge, big time charities is a good way to do that, and not only will it help needy people but it will also help the sport regain its dignity after all the spin and bad press from the news media. Link to post Share on other sites
Pain_is_Red Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Blarg! Double posts! Link to post Share on other sites
Pain_is_Red Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I think that they should ban low end guns from the u.s., i.e., those which can be bought from wal-mart and such. Then you would have many less problems involving airsoft because those who create the problems would not be willing to drop the money which real airsoft provides. The key to letting airsoft survive is education. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â In my letter to State Rep. James B. Leary of MA, I mentioned the problems lie not in the expensive AEG's that he is trying to ban but instead with the cheapo 10-30$ springers that you find at chain sporting stores. I said that it would be better to increase the age to purchase an airsoft gun from 18 to 21, and that the sale NOT possesion of airsoft guns 14inches and below should be prohibited ...Still waiting for a responce. Link to post Share on other sites
hivemind Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 No person, club, field or group is going to care about a national organization unless and until that national organization offers something concrete of benefit to them, ie. group rates on field insurance, free promotional materials, stuff like that. Put with that the fact that, for good of for bad, many people like the underground nature of airsoft and are totally against it becoming a "sport" like paintball. Â Even though it's for their own good, most people aren't going to care unless you offer them something. Â People keep bringing up the NRA, so let's use them for an example. An NRA member gets a free magazine subscription when he joins. Â Speaking of joining, you're going to need money to make all this happen, which means you need to collect dues, which means you need to incorporate as a non-profit or not-for-profit corporation. Law on this vary state-to-state, all I know about is New York state law. Regardless of what state you incorporate in, you'll need a constitution, bylaws, and a board of directors. An accountant and a lawyer are also good ideas, at least when you first set it up. Â I'm just scratching the surface here, but as soon as someone incorporates something and gets this off the ground, let me know. Â Somehow, I doubt it'll happen... Link to post Share on other sites
playa Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I think that the key to incorporating is by involving businesses and those whose job depends on airsfot, such as aex, or blade3000 on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites
EverReadyEverWil Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Put with that the fact that, for good of for bad, many people like the underground nature of airsoft and are totally against it becoming a "sport" like paintball.  Even though it's for their own good, most people aren't going to care unless you offer them something. Somehow, I doubt it'll happen... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well we know what will happen if airsoft remains a "underground" "activity" look at the VCR bill. Right now I am trying the best I can to get something going, I knowits not alot. But once we can get a place were ideas can be shared between people maybe we can expand on the idea of a national organization.  I don't plan on making a NRA clone, with benefits and lawyers, but group together airsofters so we can some how making our own bills to help us, and to stop ones that will hurt us.  But honestly i'm trying to take it one step at a time, your thinking too much into it, we have to start some where. If we can get enough support from members, who inturn so far is helping me get support in airsoft related companys, we may be able to expand into US retailers. Link to post Share on other sites
CypherZero Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 New poster here... Â I live in Florida. Unlucky me huh? Â I searched the internet. A firearms is considered to be anything that can fire a projectile with a high velocity with an explosive charge or otherwise. Â Besides, Doesn't the Army/Navy use airsoft rifles for training? I know they use Paintball guns. But some Airsoft rifles cost well over $1000. I'm pretty sure that no one on this forum is even rich enough to buy one. Or at least consider buying it. Â A big point I'm going to make is about the "projectiles" that an airsoft gun uses. It's impossible to turn an airsoft rifle into a "real" firearm. I already tried putting a dart into the barrel. (I have a mini dart board.) But to even fit the dart, I had to take off the tail piece. which, for those of your who don't know, makes the dart fly straight. So darts are a no go. Plus it scratchd my barrel. I tried metallic BB's, the ones you use for field rifles(which shoot above 1100fps stock. Need I remind you that it uses metallic BB's.) The metallic BB's will destroy an AEG so I won't try it in my AEG. In my spring rifle I cocked the gun and put hte BB from the tip of the barrel and tilted the gun a little bit so that the BB would roll back. But only enough so that it wouldn't enter the spring mechanism. It didn't go anywhere. It just rolled out. This is because metallic BB's come in sizes smaller than 6mm(correct me if I'm wrong.) Â The point is, the projectiles we use can't possibly pierce through the skin and become embeded into your limb. Plus most of us wear safety goggles or full face masks. Â So we are completely safe, assuming that everyone plays by rules and regulations. I do agree with everyone else that The media and government jumps on violence, gun control, etc. Â Well I have a problem too. The government can deal with airsoft guns, just as soon as Bush quits his stupid war in Iraq over stupid oil(because I drive a car), as soon as they decide what to do about abortion, homeless people, and many other problems like the "Coffee Incident" with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and as soon as they figure out that paintball guns and field rifles can harm people too Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 You would be wrong there mate. Many people have the cash and willingness to buy $1000 plus guns. Â One of my teammates has a CAM249 which he said costs over $1000. Haven't checked this myself. Â Â Also, the cost of the gun isn't the only cost. I personally buy upgrade to the internals as well as costmetics and I've spent over $1000 on upgrades to three of my guns. Â Â and I agree with you that Airsoft is definetaly one of the lowest things on their mind right now. Â Â I guess the war did do some stuff for us. Â Â Â ~P Link to post Share on other sites
CypherZero Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Well those pasionate about what they appreciate gives them motivation. I'm on a tight-budget. I'm new to airsofting anyways so don't mind my noob-ness. Link to post Share on other sites
playa Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Well, unlucky me. I happened to be out back in the alley today when I saw two young children playing with those cheap airsoft guns which can be bought at a sporting goods store. They were using their hands as eye protection instead of wearing goggles as they should of. My worst problem was that this was in open space and everytime a car would pass by, they would not even stop what they were doing. The only "good" thing about the affair was that the orange tips were still on the guns, but even then. This is the exact reason why I put forth the idea that those cheap guns should be banned. They are usually used in matters such as this and cause MUCH more harm than good. Link to post Share on other sites
mee Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Wait, why would they ban airsoft in the states? Â Â In a country were I can get a hold of a real gun I don't think they really give a sh#t about people with toy guns. Â I don't think they have even heard of airsoft. Â *Hears FBI kick in door. Link to post Share on other sites
enzo100 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I think that a bunch of us US airsofters should get together in different regions of the country and have demonstrations, trials, and free skirmishes at sights that are televised by local news channels. This would be an excellent way to get the word out. Anyone interested? Link to post Share on other sites
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