Tripod Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 That makes no sense. "Based on their usage performance in the real world"-LOOKS "Reenactments and will buy aegs that fit certain uniforms and impressions"-LOOKS The first one is not based on looks. He said it's based on their USAGE and PERFORMANCE in the real world. Meaning, someone can think the gun is really CRAPPY looking, but still want to buy it because it's counterpart in the real world is great in performance. Reenacters enjoy reenacting. They may join a WW2 reenactment group because they are the closest to them, but think WW2 guns are awful and look crappy. Since the person likes to reinact, he choses them because he has no other choice. Doesn't mean the person likes the gun's looks or performance, he's just limited to a certain one. Link to post Share on other sites
Catchv22 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I didn't say you didn't have the right to say the XM8 looks hideous. I think it looks hideous too. However, I hate how you just assume that every airsofter wants a gun because of looks and that is what I was talking about. You seem to miss the point. Link to post Share on other sites
Bolleh Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Ergonomics do not come down to how a gun looks. "1. (used with a sing. verb) The applied science of equipment design, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by reducing operator fatigue and discomfort. Also called biotechnology, human engineering, human factors engineering. 2. (used with a pl. verb) Design factors, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by minimizing operator fatigue and discomfort: The ergonomics of the new office were felt to be optimal." Ergonomics are not related to how a gun looks. Its to do with the ease of use of the weapon, hence the ambidexterous controls on the M8, which will transfer directly to its airsoft counterpart. On a different note, its a pretty safe bet that an airsoft version of the M8 is, or will be in production soon. Tokyo Marui representatives were removed from the SHOT show for taking very detailed photographs of the M8. When TM release an M8 you can bet I will be the proud owner of a M8 Coyote Brown Baseline Carbine. Link to post Share on other sites
arizonabay Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 That makes no sense. "Based on their usage performance in the real world"-LOOKS "Reenactments and will buy aegs that fit certain uniforms and impressions"-LOOKS The first one is not based on looks. He said it's based on their USAGE and PERFORMANCE in the real world. Meaning, someone can think the gun is really CRAPPY looking, but still want to buy it because it's counterpart in the real world is great in performance. Reenacters enjoy reenacting. They may join a WW2 reenactment group because they are the closest to them, but think WW2 guns are awful and look crappy. Since the person likes to reinact, he choses them because he has no other choice. Doesn't mean the person likes the gun's looks or performance, he's just limited to a certain one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, I can't believe this has to be such a big deal. Whenever someone buys a aeg because of the real steel performance, guess what... it is because it looks like that real steel counterpart. I never said that it was because they liked how the real steel looked. If they think that the gun is crappy looking and then buy it's aeg counterpart because the real steel performs well then they are still buying it because it lookse like the real steel. Would you buy an xm8 aeg if the real steel performs well even if the aeg looks nothing like the real steel? NO. I never said that they bought guns that they "liked" the looks of Link to post Share on other sites
arizonabay Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ergonomics do not come down to how a gun looks. "1. (used with a sing. verb) The applied science of equipment design, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by reducing operator fatigue and discomfort. Also called biotechnology, human engineering, human factors engineering. 2. (used with a pl. verb) Design factors, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by minimizing operator fatigue and discomfort: The ergonomics of the new office were felt to be optimal." Ergonomics are not related to how a gun looks. Its to do with the ease of use of the weapon, hence the ambidexterous controls on the M8, which will transfer directly to its airsoft counterpart. On a different note, its a pretty safe bet that an airsoft version of the M8 is, or will be in production soon. Tokyo Marui representatives were removed from the SHOT show for taking very detailed photographs of the M8. When TM release an M8 you can bet I will be the proud owner of a M8 Coyote Brown Baseline Carbine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So tell me then, could you have a m4 aeg. That "looks" exactly like a real steel m4, that has better/different ergonomics than an m4? Can my CA m15a4 have different ergonomics straight out of the box than someone elses who's "looks" exactly the same?? The two are absolutely related I am not going to continue this conversation any further. If you want to say I am missing the point, fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 The discussion metal/plastic is the same as in the 80's as Glock started business. Today the Glock is by far one of the best pistols in the world and yes it have a polymer frame, but the working components are (still) made of steel. Same as the XM8 (or the G36, AUG, P90, F2000 etc.). So what's the problem? Let's wait and see what the US Army will do.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with your POV completely. I just read this and thought I'd comment... Are you aware that the US government has just issued a bunch of design criteria for pistols which will be considered for service in the USA for police and army use? These criteria specifically outline things like that a manually operated safety catch must be in place. There is also stuff about a pistols frame being able as rigis as the slide. Basically, it's a bunch of stuff designed with the specific purpose of making Glock pistols unsuitable for use in US government agencies. The only way they could have been more deliberate is if they'd specified that any gun must have the words "COLT" or "SMITH & WESSON" on it somewhere. I mention this because it seems like these new guidelines were drafted with the specific purpose of excluding Glock pistols from use with US police forces, a market where they are widely used. It seems to me that an attitude of weighting the market in favour of domestically produced products is definately alive and well in the USA. Link to post Share on other sites
Bolleh Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 So tell me then, could you have a m4 aeg. That "looks" exactly like a real steel m4, that has better/different ergonomics than an m4? Can my CA m15a4 have different ergonomics straight out of the box than someone elses who's "looks" exactly the same?? The two are absolutely related I am not going to continue this conversation any further. If you want to say I am missing the point, fine. You are missing the point. They are directly related in that if one were to change, so would the other. But when someone says I like the ergonomics of this gun, they do not mean that they like the way it looks. What they in fact mean is they like its ergonomics. It would be different if the ergonomics did not transfer to the airsoft version, but they do. An ambidextrous fire selector will remain and ambidextrous fire selector. An ambidextrous mag release will remain an ambidextrous mag release. These items will have the same use on the XM8's airsoft counterpart, as they would on the real steel weapon. They are not added to the weapon to make it look good, they are added to make it easier to use. I could buy a weapon because I like the ergonomics of it, however, I may not necessarily like it aesthetically. Regards, Bolleh Link to post Share on other sites
jonnygo-lightly Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Arizonabay... believe it: erganomics is not only about aesthetical looks, its about the way shapes are designed to fit, such as grips to hands . Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 It seems to me that an attitude of weighting the market in favour of domestically produced products is definately alive and well in the USA.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> And in the UK - look at the SA80 family ... Link to post Share on other sites
Stoney Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 and the germans use almost exclusively HK guns russians use AK's etc Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 and the germans use almost exclusively HK gunsrussians use AK's etc <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but my point was that the UK was willing to arm its armed forces with rifles that didn't work, and hang the expense, just so long as they're British. AK's, Glocks and H&K's are very different (they're all quite good). Link to post Share on other sites
Fauxprophet Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Is it just me, or have people missed the primary problem with this kit....not that its based of a prototype (can anyone say TM Socom NBB), or that it looks weird (Styer Aug), but that is a very early release. I'm surprised that no one has any worries about having to dremel, epoxy, generally rework an expensive kit because of the problems that aren't fixed until the 2nd, 3rd production run. As for soldiers not liking the weapon....you can look at it like Airsoft. Some guy comes in with his Famas and all the other M16 and M4 users laugh at him. Half way through the game when the m16s snap in half, and the m4's run out of juice, there's the Famas user, laughing to himself because his plasticy ugly weapon's still working. Sure that might be a slight exaggeration, but looks is one reason why airsoft fields have more than stock AKs/Augs users playing. As was said earlier, if you dont like it, dont buy it. Link to post Share on other sites
Longhairedhippy Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 that, sir was a fine first post. Welcome to Arnie's! Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 that, sir was a fine first post. Welcome to Arnie's! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quoted for truth, baby! Welcome to Arnie's, and if you make more posts like that, you'll be a fine member! Just remember to use the search function... Link to post Share on other sites
APOLLO Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Sry if this has already been covered but I heard sometime last year that TM was going to manufacture a XM-8 but who know when that will be. I personally used to completely hate the XM8 but now for some reason it has grown on me. Link to post Share on other sites
Antagon Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Yeah, remember TM taking all those pics at 2004 Shotshow? Maybe we'll see one from them in 2008! Link to post Share on other sites
Megalomaniac Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Is there any concrete proof of the WELL/CYMA M8? because i would really kill for an M8 even if its just a plinker or for backyard wars. Link to post Share on other sites
Antagon Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Is there any concrete proof of the WELL/CYMA M8? because i would really kill for an M8 even if its just a plinker or for backyard wars. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup, it's on their website, whos URL I can't remember at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
sp00n Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Sry if this has already been covered but I heard sometime last year that TM was going to manufacture a XM-8 but who know when that will be. I personally used to completely hate the XM8 but now for some reason it has grown on me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By the time Marui makes one the US army will have adopted the M8, designed something better, and adopted it instead. Link to post Share on other sites
AqualungJM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 The SCAR and the XM8 both look like fish to me. But then it's not the looks that matter but rather, the ergonomics. No? And also whether or not it even works that well, and I've heard the XM8 has problems, but that's the real-steal version not the Airsoft version, so it doesn't really matter that much(unless you'd prefer your gun to be a replica of a good gun...like I would ). Link to post Share on other sites
Megalomaniac Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 The SCAR and the XM8 both look like fish to me. But then it's not the looks that matter but rather, the ergonomics. No? And also whether or not it even works that well, and I've heard the XM8 has problems, but that's the real-steal version not the Airsoft version, so it doesn't really matter that much(unless you'd prefer your gun to be a replica of a good gun...like I would ). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Most of the "problems" with the XM8 are rumors made up by people with the IQ of a gamefaqs forum poster. The "problems" are supposed to be that the polymer handguards "melt" and that the XM8 lacks iron sights, neither of which are true. The XM8's handguards are made of the same stuff as the G36 and the XM8 has flip up irons. Link to post Share on other sites
AqualungJM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Most of the "problems" with the XM8 are rumors made up by people with the IQ of a gamefaqs forum poster. The "problems" are supposed to be that the polymer handguards "melt" and that the XM8 lacks iron sights, neither of which are true. The XM8's handguards are made of the same stuff as the G36 and the XM8 has flip up irons. Sorry, my bad. Shouldn't have judged the gun on what I simply had heard. Link to post Share on other sites
unimatrix001 Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Yeah, remember TM taking all those pics at 2004 Shotshow? Maybe we'll see one from them in 2008! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I bet that G&G will release a XM8 earlier then Marui Link to post Share on other sites
aimpoint Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I bet that G&G will release a XM8 earlier then Marui <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *looks around* *cant see HaVoC* Quoted for truth Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 G&G sure seems to be doing a good job lately. Even ICS is working on something original... *shock* Link to post Share on other sites
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