New CEO and strategy from Cybergun

[hitmanNo2]

Quoting FPS with 0.12s is Cyberscum in a nutshell.  *fruitcage* idiots.

[PureSilver]

If they for at while start making good guns we or most of us will shut up and buy their guns because quality sells it self and a good price.

 

This. Airsofters - like most other kinds of casual consumers - are a fickle bunch, in particular because turnover in the sport (I would guess most players play between 15-25) is so high that generational shifts happen very quickly and therefore the sport's collective memory is very short. It is not impossible for Cybergun to get out of the incredibly deep hole they've dug for themselves. Most airsofters are ill-informed and don't really know who they are. If they completely revamp their policies  - e.g., they start licensing things people actually want to buy, especially at a reasonable price - they'll be able to turn this around within a few years at best.

 

Licensing can be done right. ASG used their licensing of not-very-good guns to finance the EVO3A1, one of the best AEGs ever made in my considered opinion. Umarex have used their licensing/ownership (do they actually own Walther outright now?) to incentivise the production of a whole line of Walther pistols that didn't exist on the market before.

 

All it takes is a few good products. If Cybergun got distribution of something revolutionary - e.g. BO's new miracle gun - and it does turn out to be the death of the AEG as we know it, I guarantee you that members of this forum will be crawling over each other to bow down to our new overlords.

[GI0VANNI]

Sorry sir, 15-25 ????

 

I must ask for compensation and trow you my glove (spiked if possible) I started at 18 as not before was I able to spend my money at dad´s house in this game. Now I am 38 and still playing and most of our team are closer to 40 than 20 

 and to prove my point here you have an aftermath image:

https://airsoftzaragoza.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/grupo.jpg

 

So no, we will make sure the new generations and people to come will ever know that the innocent "3PP" was corrupted by the power of the ring and became evil and named itself "cyberscum" and will never be forgiven nor forgotten.

[teus]

In defence of a otherwise @&*"company. If a company holds copyrights, it is bound to crack down on infringements. If they don't they lose the right on those copyrights.

This is much like Glock in the USA right now.

All other complaints against them are legit.

 

I too started at later age in airsoft.

[teus]

In defence of a otherwise @&*"company. If a company holds copyrights, it is bound to crack down on infringements. If they don't they lose the right on those copyrights.

This is much like Glock in the USA right now.

All other complaints against them are legit.

 

I too started at later age in airsoft.

[renegadecow]

Trademark and copyright, sure. They're just following the law. But when they purposely try to derail WE's P90 for 5 years because they weren't given a slice of the pie even though no trademark or copyright is violated (only tradedress which FN, not CG holds), then they can rightly *fruitcage* themselves.

[hitmanNo2]

Plus, it's not just enforcing copyright.  They're plastering guns with trades three times the size in wrong locations e.t.c. Basically making an utter dogs dinner of the guns.

[LightningLion]

Quoting FPS with 0.12s is Cyberscum in a nutshell.  *fruitcage* idiots.

That, and also the super "BAX Systems".

 

 

Plus, it's not just enforcing copyright.  They're plastering guns with trades three times the size in wrong locations e.t.c. Basically making an utter dogs dinner of the guns.

 

Always found this very retarded. It they actually cared about making realisticly trademarked replicas they'll have some buyers between the realism-seekers like myself. But instead of that they wan't to make us pay for fake trades which is nonsense... And gets worse when you can buy the guns directly to China with original markings and without the rebranding additional cost.

 

[PureSilver]

they purposely try to derail WE's P90 for 5 years because they weren't given a slice of the pie even though no trademark or copyright is violated (only tradedress which FN, not CG holds)

 

FNH is one of the brands licensed by CyberGun. I would have though it highly likely that that license includes the exclusive right to sell replicas of FN's guns (including the P90) in certain markets, not just to put FN trademarks on there. What evidence is there FN haven't delegated this right to CyberGun?

 

Cybergun have done a lot of extremely shady s*** - trademarking other companies' names and marks, for example - but I'm not seeing it as obvious that this is one of them.

[renegadecow]

Because Tokyo Marui also has that license (if only for the 5-7 as they use FN trades explicitly) under Japanese distribution.

http://www.tokyo-marui.co.jp/products/gas/blowback/211

Cybergun only has licensing in Europe and the US. WE is in Taiwan and the only time they got cock blocked was in SHOT when they first peddled the working P90 prototype. Outside of that incident and keeping the P90 sterile of markings, all they got was harassment via strongly worded legal letters.

 

Edit: also, isn't FN's patent for the P90 already expired?

[Habakure]

Yeap, it's expired. There was a thread in here about it, I think it was one of those WE threads where they asked what did we want.

[NonEx]

Forgive me, but TM having FNH trades on their 5-7 doesn't say much considering they also have Glock trademarks on their Glock line-up ?  

[renegadecow]

Dunno about their Glocks but I do know they follow trademark laws as enforced in Japan (it's not China after all). Take their XDM which has no licensing thus no trades and how the older M19s transitioned from having proper S&W trades to no trades and again with proper trades in 2012 when they secured licensing for it again.

[SuperCriollo]

Forgive me, but TM having FNH trades on their 5-7 doesn't say much considering they also have Glock trademarks on their Glock line-up ?

 

 

Trades ? What trades? The TM 5-7 has stylized fake trades, that actually read TM, instead of FNH lulz

 

http://rs57.pbsrc.com/albums/g206/person9334/DSC01114.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

[PureSilver]

Cybergun only has licensing in Europe and the US. WE is in Taiwan and the only time they got cock blocked was in SHOT when they first peddled the working P90 prototype. Outside of that incident and keeping the P90 sterile of markings, all they got was harassment via strongly worded legal letters.

 

I think that's pretty much well within CyberGun's rights, TBH. They know that if stuff gets made outside their jurisdiction it inevitably seeps into their jurisdiction; there's no law against writing strongly-worded letters. That WE can't or won't cut a deal is the reason the TA 90 seems to be quite hard to get in Europe and virtually impossible to get, judging by how few of them I've seen, in the US. I mean, do I like CyberGun? No. But these licenses are what they paid their shareholders' money for, and they're well within their rights to protect them.

 

Because Tokyo Marui also has that license (if only for the 5-7 as they use FN trades explicitly) under Japanese distribution.

http://www.tokyo-marui.co.jp/products/gas/blowback/211

 

Dunno about their Glocks but I do know they follow trademark laws as enforced in Japan (it's not China after all).

 

This is a really interesting area of law and I wish I could read up on it more. Like you say, Japan has to have very strong IP laws because it's such a centre for global R&D, particularly in electronics - and yet, it's pretty clear that there's some funny business going on with TM, KSC and other Japanese firms. We all know that Glock flat-out refuse to license replicas of their guns in any way, shape or form - they're famous for it - and yet they don't seem to be able to squash replicas in a first-world country with a very strong rule of law.

 

I've heard that Japanese trademark and copyright law can be attributed to whoever registers the mark first (not whoever used it first), which means there's little to stop bad-faith registrations of internationally recognised Marks (e.g. 'Glock' or 'Beretta') by TM or anybody else, much like CyberGun went round registering 'Tokyo Marui' and 'Hop-Up' in the European system. I don't know if that's true but it's an interesting theoretical explanation for the unusual outcomes.

[LordElpus]

I think that's pretty much well within CyberGun's rights, TBH. They know that if stuff gets made outside their jurisdiction it inevitably seeps into their jurisdiction; there's no law against writing strongly-worded letters. That WE can't or won't cut a deal is the reason the TA 90 seems to be quite hard to get in Europe and virtually impossible to get, judging by how few of them I've seen, in the US. I mean, do I like CyberGun? No. But these licenses are what they paid their shareholders' money for, and they're well within their rights to protect them.

 

 

 

This is a really interesting area of law and I wish I could read up on it more. Like you say, Japan has to have very strong IP laws because it's such a centre for global R&D, particularly in electronics - and yet, it's pretty clear that there's some funny business going on with TM, KSC and other Japanese firms. We all know that Glock flat-out refuse to license replicas of their guns in any way, shape or form - they're famous for it - and yet they don't seem to be able to squash replicas in a first-world country with a very strong rule of law.

 

I've heard that Japanese trademark and copyright law can be attributed to whoever registers the mark first (not whoever used it first), which means there's little to stop bad-faith registrations of internationally recognised Marks (e.g. 'Glock' or 'Beretta') by TM or anybody else, much like CyberGun went round registering 'Tokyo Marui' and 'Hop-Up' in the European system. I don't know if that's true but it's an interesting theoretical explanation for the unusual outcomes.

 

 I wonder how much of that is how much Japan consider airsoft guns to be toys? I doubt Tamiya/Airfix/Hornby/Scalextric pay out to produce models to the manufacturers of the real deal.

[bankz5152]

 

 

This post broke.

[NonEx]

Trades ? What trades? The TM 5-7 has stylized fake trades, that actually read TM, instead of FNH lulz

 

http://rs57.pbsrc.com/albums/g206/person9334/DSC01114.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

 

I'm not the one who said it had FNH trademarks.

 

Just did an overlay comparison in PS and you are right. Hehe.

 

Renegade are we looking at old pics of the 5-7 or what?

[renegadecow]

Not on the gun, not on my old one at least, but the box and website is plastered with FN. And I can't recall who said it in the review thread but was told new ones changed from having the TM in FN styled logo on the grip to actually having FN on it.

[Richard Y]

I don't know where to get there guns, let alone would I buy one.

 

Tokyo Marui for the win ..

[jv83]

I just noticed that a lot of Polish retailers have just removed all WE and KJ Glock models from their web pages. Didn't Cybergun get the rights to use the Glock brand in relation to models that can be used for law and military training?

Or maybe its just Glock acting up, as they do. 

[ruvon]

Sort of off topic but related, there was recently (last two months) an american forum that received notice that they would have to take down any used for sale add's for anything Glock related. 

[machgo]

airsoft society dot com has banned the sale (in their classified section) of any Glocks, due to a request (warning) by Glock's lawyers.

[NeoVeNoM]

Not on the gun, not on my old one at least, but the box and website is plastered with FN. And I can't recall who said it in the review thread but was told new ones changed from having the TM in FN styled logo on the grip to actually having FN on it.

 

here you go 100% licensed.

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Gas_Blow_Back_Pistols_Cybergun_Cybergun_FN_57_Regular_Gas_Blow_Back_Pistol.htm

 

And it is not a Marushin.

It is a SRC most likely. EBB claims it's origins are taiwanese.

[icolater]

Looks very nice.