MadMax Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I went through the painful dive testing phase to assure that close hits were not particularly dangerous. I held grenades against my t-shirt clad belly with one exit port pointed directly at myself as a worst case scenario. I first did some cardboard box blasting, but in the end, I had to see for myself what it'd feel like diving on a grenade. It hurts a lot eating 90bbs in one spot at point blank. Still, no broken skin and not as bad as a burst from an upgraded rifle at 15'. I do have concerns about the angle of fire that airsofters can be hit from if they dive on a grenade. The achievable angles are quite unusual in regards to eye protection. Full coverage paintball goggles protect from straight up angles much better than glasses. Imagine lying prone and being fired upon from behind from a position very close to the ground. There are possible angles where fire can come in very low passing the outstretched leg that could end up in the eye area if one wears safety glasses. Diving on a grenade makes very similar angles a more likely possibility. Because of this I recommend AGAINST the use of safety glasses as eye protection. There is some accident history in paintball where players were blinded by fire coming in from behind while lying prone. For this reason, the ASTM standards that regulate paintball goggles require full coverage from fire from ANY angle. Even those that seem improbable. Top down shots occur when an attacker leaps over a barrier and fires downwards on bunkered players hiding behind cover. For this reason ASTM compliant paintball goggles have to protect against fire from directly above. These risks are also present in our game and it's important that we prepare for them whether they're related from a grenade or a rifle. I am preparing a collection of safety warnings that outline as many grenade related significant hazards that I can anticipate. A working airsoft hand grenade presents some new hazards that will take some time for us to acclimatize to. For instance, a device with no safe direction could be a new safety issue in our game. Proper safe zone handling of grenades will be a new discipline for us. We also have to exercise a new discipline in handling malfunctioning grenades. A grenade that for some reason doesn't discharge on a field needs to be disarmed before it's carried back into the safe area. I've provided an very fast method for disarming my grenade, but it only works if anyone who'd pick up a grenade on the field knows it. Besides tackling manufacturing issues, I've still got a heap of information to publish in a concise way. I hate "design by stickers" engineering where one has to execute strange procedures in order to work around a deficient product. This product has a lot of work buried in it to make it obvious to use and easy to render safe. Link to post Share on other sites
mhe Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 That is a very important aspect you're getting into here. And that is why I got myself an S10 gas mask, took the lenses out and replaced them with custom made Makralon™ lenses. Tested with 450 fps fullauto burst at point blank range, combined with a really good anti-fog spray (called UltraStop, get it at your local pharmacy, it was originally meant for surgeon's optical instruments) you get the best protecting and most stylish fullface mask ever. At least if you're going for that SAS CRW style. I think there would be a market for much more sophisticated fullface masks. Even with a Bolle X800, I'd be a bit concerned if a BB would come up from below, shattering at the glasses' edge and a fragment going through the ventilation opening directly into the unprotected eye. Very unlikely scenario, but it's not likely you're going to care about likeliness if you just lost a perfectly good eyeball... Link to post Share on other sites
deepsix Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Refs could carry a "safe bag", just a thick fabric bag with a drawstring or any full-seal closure for use of retrieving a "dud" grenade, in that event. Makes for a whole new class of player when we can call for IED removal! Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Refs could carry a "safe bag", just a thick fabric bag with a drawstring or any full-seal closure for use of retrieving a "dud" grenade, in that event. Makes for a whole new class of player when we can call for IED removal! There is a part which can be removed from the grenade with no tools. A couple twists and it's off rendering the grenade unable to propel bbs. This part covers the gas fill valve (if you throw the 'nade into a dog turd, it'll keep the funk out) and has to be removed to refill gas. The operating nature of this grenade prevents accidental propulsion of pellets in case you screw up the loading procedure. I went over the design a heap of times to so it would be very difficult to accidentally blast pellets while loading. Pretty neat having an IED player roaming around picking up UXO. Maybe a space for a scenario where the more UXO disarmed by a teams IED tech results in fewer fictional kills on one team between skrims. More UXO picked up by opfor makes more grenades available to them in the next skrim. I'll be publishing more info next week to show how to reload it. It'll be well photographed and another video is slated for release. Link to post Share on other sites
WildCard Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Its looking flipping fantastic man! Will probably buy one Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 a brace of these for me straight away! Link to post Share on other sites
Airsoft Innovations Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 New video up! http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/Grenade.html Link to post Share on other sites
Ascendance610 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 *drools* Link to post Share on other sites
dandman3039 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 New video up! http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/Grenade.html is that still the model with the water timing mechanism, or is it only gas releasing from the top of the grenade? Link to post Share on other sites
deepsix Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Clever, well done, very professional. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Any chance of a real-speed video of detonation? Link to post Share on other sites
Airsoft Innovations Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Any chance of a real-speed video of detonation? Not really. The grenade dumps it's entire pellet charge in 1/15th of a second. That works out to 2 frames at the usual camcorder rate of 30f/s. Pellet velocity is too fast to really see. All you get is a few blurry streaks and a look at the grenade rolling away. The vids featured in my promo vids are played back at 1/100th of actual speed. They were shot at 3000f/s so if you shoot with a 30f/s camera it'd be like speeding my videos up 100x with a shutter time that's 100x longer so the pellets would look like very dim streaks that are 100x longer, but 1/100th as intense (very light blur). I can catch the scatter with a DSLR because I can blast a bright flash to add to my 3kw of lighting. My DSLR is also more light sensitive than a camcorder CCD when I up the ISO on it, but the motor drive can only grab 5f/s. The video is of the older water delay grenade. I haven't filmed the current models because I can't afford to rent the camera again and the footage would be very similar (just no water fountain) so it's hard to justify the expense. Link to post Share on other sites
Skintband Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 These are going to be awesome I can't wait for there release. This is truely an innovative product and I am excited to make it part of my loadout. Keep up the the good work and I can't wait to see what you guys all come up with next. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Not really. The grenade dumps it's entire pellet charge in 1/15th of a second. That works out to 2 frames at the usual camcorder rate of 30f/s. Pellet velocity is too fast to really see. All you get is a few blurry streaks and a look at the grenade rolling away. The vids featured in my promo vids are played back at 1/100th of actual speed. They were shot at 3000f/s so if you shoot with a 30f/s camera it'd be like speeding my videos up 100x with a shutter time that's 100x longer so the pellets would look like very dim streaks that are 100x longer, but 1/100th as intense (very light blur). I can catch the scatter with a DSLR because I can blast a bright flash to add to my 3kw of lighting. My DSLR is also more light sensitive than a camcorder CCD when I up the ISO on it, but the motor drive can only grab 5f/s. The video is of the older water delay grenade. I haven't filmed the current models because I can't afford to rent the camera again and the footage would be very similar (just no water fountain) so it's hard to justify the expense. The engineer inside me popped a boner at all that technical speak - and the media student inside me popped a bigger one when you mentioned a 3000fps camera. If the nade is under $100USD I'll get one and name my first-born after it. Link to post Share on other sites
hokeyplyr48 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 was the pouch size ever determined? Did the smoke pouch fit? Link to post Share on other sites
dandman3039 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 i'm pretty sure it was confirmed that it fits in mk18 smoke pouches, as well as most large radio pouches Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 New video up! http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/Grenade.html Such a tease! Love that pic: http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/images/...s/ai/pow1_lg.jp Looking forward to more videos and pic before finally being able to buy one Link to post Share on other sites
MCXL Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I just hope it will be possible too do a bandoleer hanging of these. Man I think I am gonna be buying a ton o' grenades this year, these, maple leaves (if they come out), and shower/slug shells. Fun stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 was the pouch size ever determined? Did the smoke pouch fit? Talking to Carl the other day, he said that he wasn't 100% sure if all smoke pouches out there would fit his grenade. He's encountered some smoke pouches that were too small. However, looking online he found some specs for the M-18 smoke which appears to have slightly larger dimensions than his AI grenade. So it's possible that smoke pouches designed to fit the M-18 Smoke will probably fit the AI Grenade. He said that at some point in the future, he'd like to buy a random assortment of Smoke Pouches to test and see which his AI grenade will and won't fit in. Once the AI grenades are released I'll test them in my HSGI Smoke Pouches (which are made to work with the M-18 smoke). Link to post Share on other sites
oldman1980 Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Can't wait to have one of these. Link to post Share on other sites
tommythegun85 Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 i want one too... get those suckers Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 According to the newest video on Airsoft-Innovations.com, the detonation of the grenade releases BBs between 65fps-137fps (first to last shot). IMHO that'll work just fine. It's still safe enough that if the thing detonated in front of your face (with face protection worn of course) you should be fine, and it's still strong enough that you should be aware that you've been hit in normal gaming scenarios. Good stuff! Now release them!!! Link to post Share on other sites
MrBlanks Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 For reference: Tornado Grenade: Height: 4.9" Width: 2.125" Loaded Weight: 260g (0.573201882 pounds) Mk18 Smoke grenade: *Length: 5.70" *Diameter: 2.4" *Weight: 7 lbs. (3175.14659 grams) Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Tornado Grenade: Height: 4.9" Width: 2.125" Loaded Weight: 260g (0.573201882 pounds) Mk18 Smoke grenade: *Length: 5.70" *Diameter: 2.4" *Weight: 7 lbs. (3175.14659 grams) Hm... 2.4" diameter. Do you know if that's the diameter of the cylindrical section or max width including the spoon? Just curious. 7 lbs !?!! I had no idea Smokes were that heavy. I'm like the 1/2-ish pound of the AI 'nade. Would be awesome if we had these before Operation Lion Claws... Link to post Share on other sites
MrBlanks Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 No idea. I just used google. Link to post Share on other sites
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