Airsoft Innovations Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hm... 2.4" diameter. Do you know if that's the diameter of the cylindrical section or max width including the spoon? Just curious. 7 lbs !?!! I had no idea Smokes were that heavy. I'm like the 1/2-ish pound of the AI 'nade. Would be awesome if we had these before Operation Lion Claws... ?! I've held a smoke once and thought it was heavy, but I didn't recall it being that heavy. I don't feel so bad about the Tornado weight now. Link to post Share on other sites
MrBlanks Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 http://www.dbcpyrotechnics.com/servlet/the...-Grenade/Detail Thats where I got the info from. I thought 7lbs is a lot but now thinking about it, thats a lot! So I decided to look into it further to see if I am wrong. Is the m18 and the mk18 the same thing? If so, according to this site the grenade is 19oz (1.1875 pounds or 538.640939 grams) I am not sure if we are talking about the same grenade now. This one has a height of 5.75 in, .05 in taller than the mk18. Whatever it is, the tornado should be lighter, so I am happy. I can't wait! Link to post Share on other sites
WildCard Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Tiny little bump here, but is there any news on the release date? Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 No news on the release date, but I just saw a couple of these in action and met the designer briefly. The Tornado was surprisingly small for all the talk about it being big. Being smaller than a Coke can, it fits in the hand just right and isn't that heavy either. Compared to a recently released all-metal grenade that weighs twice as much, I'd be much more comfortable throwing these around the field. Standing at 3 meters (10'), I positively felt two hits from the Tornado: One to the leg and one to the chest. It looked like the spread was really random so it doesn't matter much where you stand. I've never witnessed an Airsoft grenade perform like this before. 65-137 fps doesn't sound like much, but it is noticeable through clothing. It empties the tubes in 1/15 of a second, right? 180 BBs in that time translates to 2700 BBs per second, or 162 000 per minute. It's a bit like having a portable Airsoft Metal Storm that shoots in random directions. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Standing at 3 meters (10'), I positively felt two hits from the Tornado: One to the leg and one to the chest. It looked like the spread was really random so it doesn't matter much where you stand. I've never witnessed an Airsoft grenade perform like this before. 65-137 fps doesn't sound like much, but it is noticeable through clothing. Plus that's 65-137 fps within a 10' sphere of influence. It's not like you're using these to hit someone at the other end of the field. 65-137 fps will probably be just right for what is needed. However... sweet jesus, for all that is holy, give us a release date, AI!!! Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Plus that's 65-137 fps within a 10' sphere of influence. It's not like you're using these to hit someone at the other end of the field. 65-137 fps will probably be just right for what is needed. However... sweet jesus, for all that is holy, give us a release date, AI!!! Sorry for not posting a release date. I don't want to find myself pressed to launch to a promised ate when I can't deliver on it. This project a lot more complicated than anything else I've ever developed. It's hard to believe I used to think I that I could have made this past Xmas season sales. I've had quite a few unexpected problems with some of my suppliers. This product is dependent on parts supplied by several makers as well as specialized tooling made by yet more makers. Somehow everything worked out with the parts that I thought would have been the toughest. My last delay was with the machined parts that I thought would be the easiest. Anyways, mission nearly accomplished. I'm returning from an emergency visit to my supplier of machined parts. All the bugs are ironed out and I'm returning with enough samples for me to start my reviewer sample shipments in about a week. I'm having a partial shipment of parts air freighted to me so I can get the assembly monkeys going. This is the last stumbling block left and I think it's finally busted. Man I'm exhausted. I made a snap decision to visit my genetic homeland to expedite this last step. My suppliers are accomplished machinists, but my English engineering drawings weren't being interpreted correctly. The guys here are machines! They're running 3 shifts on my parts so I found myself doing near round the clock part inspections right after coming around the world. Two days in HK to check out the airsoft scene for my first time (first time in HK too). Man I wish I had more time to explore my families culture, but I have to get back home to work. Link to post Share on other sites
TheBauer Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 My site doesn't allow BFGs for this reason and I expect this will fall foul of the same ruling. most sites i play at that use BFG's we use a simple rule of drop or roll. meaning BFG's can be dropped (ie into windows) or rolled 5 or so meters. this stops them from being lobbed and landing in some ones face. im pretty sure if these are heavy (which they probably will be) then they will have the same ruling as a BFG at the sites i play at. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Hyde Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Did I hear review samples? IF you send one up to me in washington I can show the guys at evergreenairsoft.org airsoftNW.com and battlesim.com. I may also be able to bring it up to precisionairsoft.net. I know they will be very interested in these, plus I can write a review on it as well. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 The guys here are machines! They're running 3 shifts on my parts so I found myself doing near round the clock part inspections right after coming around the world. That's pretty hard core. So I just saw your on the front New Page which shows how to reset the timer from 3 secs to 1.5 secs. So I'm a little confused as to which specific action was done in the video to change the timer? Was it the swapping of the pins? In other words, was having the pin in the lower position the 3 second timer, and having the pin in the upper position the 1.5 second timer? Was it the slight twist of the first pin that you did? Or was it something to do with the "timer plug"? I'm guessing it essentially all has to do with if the pull pin is in the upper or lower position. Everything else in the video was simply a means to an end (i.e. the steps needed to swap the pin positions). If it does have to do with the pin position, then I'm guessing the pins are holding down some kind of inner mechanical mechanism that's pushing its way upwards. Removal of the pin results in the opening of the valve and yielding "detonation". That would make sense as you previously mentioned the grenade may not be ideal for trip wires as the pin requires X amount of force to pull (which to me meant the pin was perhaps under strain from a part pushing against it). What I'm getting at is... while you can switch from 3 secs to 1.5 secs... can you switch from 1.5 secs back to 3 secs? Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Did I hear review samples? IF you send one up to me in washington I can show the guys at evergreenairsoft.org airsoftNW.com and battlesim.com. I may also be able to bring it up to precisionairsoft.net. I know they will be very interested in these, plus I can write a review on it as well. Riiiiight, because there wouldn't be a line of people to be reviewers/beta testers if he was taking requests from this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Airsoft Innovations Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 That's pretty hard core. So I just saw your on the front New Page which shows how to reset the timer from 3 secs to 1.5 secs. So I'm a little confused as to which specific action was done in the video to change the timer? Was it the swapping of the pins?*snip* Placing a pin in the lower hole sets the timer for 3s. Putting the pin in the upper sets it for 1.5s. The movement of the valve assembly and subsequent pellet discharge is stopped by the pin. Changing it's axial distance along the grenade centre axis adjusts how far the assembly has to move before the grenade discharges. When the valve assembly moves far enough, the grenade detonates and blasts it's pellet charge so it's important to place the second pin before removing the first because it's very difficult to yank out the first pin and jam in the second in 1.5s. I have to admit that this grenade does not make a very good booby trap device. The pin removal force is high to prevent accidental triggering. I could see a trip wire setting it off, but you find yourself having to work out a way to stake the grenade down in a manner that allows it to spin. I think some players will work out a way to improvise a trap with this grenade, but for the most part it's really optimized as a hand grenade. Our email accounts are overflowing with review sample requests. We've got quite a few lined up, but I have to admit we're getting spoiled by having some really good reviewers coming forward to look at this product. We're not looking for a biased review, but we want credible ones from reviewers with a substantial history of evaluating previous products. For instance Snowman at justpistols.co.uk has a superb collection of very well photographed products accompanied by quantitative performance analysis. He's also got a big readers base so his review would get our products lots of exposure. We appreciate everyone's enthusiam but we've got a limited number of grenades earmarked for free sample reviews and some really great reviewers have come forward to ask for free samples. Link to post Share on other sites
Jammy_Stuff Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 After seeing that picture a few pages ago, I want one of these. Now. Link to post Share on other sites
Agent47 Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 wha...100 USD for a grenade??? Link to post Share on other sites
swannie_2006 Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Who said it would cost a hundred bucks ? Link to post Share on other sites
Thorbard Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Thinking about the tripwire thing, would something other than a standard pin work for it? Maybe something smooth like a needle through the same hole. Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 wha...100 USD for a grenade??? Then don't buy it. Instead, do us all a favor and spend your own money on R&D, manufacturing, and marketing. Then you can create for us a better (or equivalent) grenade for less money. I realise that my response was pretty rude, so allow me to explain why I responded in the manner that I did. I am sure that AI is going to set the price for these grenades as low as they can while still making a profit (they didn't spend all this time and money just because they like us). And that is the key here, they have to make a profit or else this whole excercise was just pointless. But, they cannot set the price too high or else no one will buy any of their grenades. You can see why what AI is doing can be very risky. That said, everyone needs to relax about all these rumors concerning the release price. AI does not want to shoot themselves in the foot (except maybe with their own grenade - I know I really want to shoot myself in the foot with AI's grenade). Let them do what they need to do and when the grenade is released, either buy it or don't. If no one buys any because of a price-value mismatch, then I am sure AI will redress the problem (after all, some money is better than none). And to all you armchair physicists and design engineers out there, you have absolutely no finantial stake in any changes AI makes to this grenade, BUT THEY DO. Once again, let them do what they need to do to get this pig to market. Then, once released, flex your free market muscle buy either buying it or not buying it. I wouldn't be surprised if AI never relases this much info prior to a product release again. edited: because I'm a dumbass (apparently I can't spell) 1st Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Thinking about the tripwire thing, would something other than a standard pin work for it? Maybe something smooth like a needle through the same hole. It sounds like it's less about the pin, and more about the force pushing against the pin. So if you replace the pin with an object of smaller diameter, it'll still have the same force imposed on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Agent47 Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 rumors about the price? http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...tail?newsID=820 IMO, I'd rather spend 600 USD for 6 of them (I can afford it - somewhat), than having time eaten up from pre-med stuff trying to figure out a better design - I'm not trying to be flippant here, heck as a biology major I obviously do not have any influence - any of the stuff I think about with modding my guns are just small things that don't require a lot of physics and engineering to get around... Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 You know what's crazy? I'd rather buy 4 grenades at $80 each, than 2 grenades at $99.50 each. Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 You know what's crazy? I'd rather buy 4 grenades at $80 each, than 2 grenades at $99.50 each. Pricing is still up in the air. Until final product is packaged and ready to ship, it doesn't make much sense to commit to a price. Link to post Share on other sites
Airsoft Innovations Posted April 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 It sounds like it's less about the pin, and more about the force pushing against the pin. So if you replace the pin with an object of smaller diameter, it'll still have the same force imposed on it. Correct. There is a fair bit of force acting on the pin which results in a fairly high pull force. Part of it is a side effect of how the grenade works. Some of it is intentional to prevent accidental starting of a grenade timer. Removal of the pin requires a deliberate pull. I just noticed that I sometimes post with my personal login (MadMax). It's an accidental thing. I don't mean to maintain multiple identities, but as a company I prefer to respond with Airsoft Innovations as the login. I can also have my company help answer posts with the corporate identity. Habit has me sometimes logging in with my personal account from back in the day when I was a bloke running around with dual Prokillers with 52rnd mags. Man things change when you make airsoft your job... Link to post Share on other sites
Brother Decimus Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 wow I was excited about those grenades, until I saw the estimated price. I know its still up in the air but if its over $80 I won't be getting one. A bit unrealistic for the actual materials being used. And the technology is nothing to be ewwing and ahhing about, although its good this grenade is better than the others. I'm still glad they took the time to bring something like this to market. Link to post Share on other sites
dandman3039 Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 any info on when the next vid, pics or anything will come out, I'm getting antsy to see something new, and checking this website every hour for new posts is getting annoying.... -thanks Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 any info on when the next vid, pics or anything will come out, I'm getting antsy to see something new, and checking this website every hour for new posts is getting annoying.... -thanks Samples were supposed to be sent out a short while back but no one appears to have received theirs yet. Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 All went quiet about a month ago, no further info as yet. Greg. Link to post Share on other sites
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