Can Dual Pistols work?

[expvideo]

...Would I do better with 1 gun and some proper technique? perhaps.

Do I give a toss? No.

Yeah, that's my point.

 

lol @ comparing to real steel. I'm talking about skirmishing, and I can tell you from experience it's quite viable.

 

And last I checked airsoft is mostly about the fun

 

No kidding. That's what I've been saying. Dual wielding is FUN. Key word. Just because it's fun doesn't mean it's practical, and just because it isn't practical doesn't mean it isn't fun.

 

With enough work, any tactic can be perfected, but the fact of the matter is that dual wielding is very, very difficult to do correctly, and doesn't provide enough of a tactical advantage for the difficulty level. I'm not talking about real ballistics or real recoil either. I'm talking about the difficulty of controlling two weapons at once with any level of accuracy. Even at close ranges accuracy matters. Even in airsoft.

[dannyboy]

Who gives a *fruitcage* about doing it correctly? See again: fun. If it works and you get kills, go for it. See: viable. Fun, yes. Works, yes. I fail to see how what you're saying applies to airsoft. You'll also note a number of people seem to think it's quite doable... which it is. Learn how, stop being bitter about it

 

[Zmarre]

It works well in some defined occasions. Like on stairways, where the enemy can enter from above you and below you (we once had a skirmsite with 3 interconnected buildings and 8 floors). You point the one gun up and one gun down, and the moment you see anything moving below or above you you squeeze the trigger to keep their heads down. Then you have the time to aim properly.

 

For reloading issues: to be honest, in the 60 hours of CQB I've played this year I had two occasions where I had to reload in the field. But we mostly play fastpaced action in relatively tight areas so everyone dies at least every 15 minutes. 40 rounds is more than sufficient for some 8 kills plus some knifekills.

[expvideo]

Who gives a *fruitcage* about doing it correctly? See again: fun. If it works and you get kills, go for it. See: viable. Fun, yes. Works, yes. I fail to see how what you're saying applies to airsoft. You'll also note a number of people seem to think it's quite doable... which it is. Learn how, stop being bitter about it

 

Apparently you don't know how to read, because you're arguing a different point and I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying.

 

Is it fun: YES

Is it do-able: Yes

Is it efficient: No

Does that mean you should never do it: No

[dannyboy]

How is it not efficient?

 

[expvideo]

How is it not efficient?

 

Because you vision does not allow you to sight multiple weapons at once, and single handed shooting is not as accurate or controlled as a two hand grip. Not even in Airsoft.

[dannyboy]

Uhm, point shooting? Seriously, what do you have against using two pistols? And.. sorry, no, I can't make your comparison to RS make sense. Do you have brittle bone disorder in your wrists?

 

[charlieboy69]

i have tried this myself

u just find yourself getting shot..... alot..... by guys with stock tm aks, or clones or whatever

however fun factor is over 9000

usefulness......well, u gotta be pretty good with them to win.

 

[axl]

Uhm, point shooting? Seriously, what do you have against using two pistols?

 

I believe his point is that you can't engage two different targets at the same time with any degree of accuracy (especially in woodland, if the targets are moving etc.) so to be effective you need to be aiming the two pistols side by side at the same target. If you're doing that, then why not use one pistol? It'll be a lot more accurate because you'll only be trying to aim one pistol, and you'll have a two handed grip which is more stable than a one handed grip. And that outweighs the extra firepower you get from the second pistol.

 

I'm not saying I agree, and I think it'll be a laugh trying to dual wield, but I think that's what he's getting at.

[SuperJohn]

The real question is: why dual-wield pistols when you could use two MP5Ks instead?

 

Two fists of full auto overcomes any accuracy concerns!

 

[axl]

Hmmm, good idea. They'd have to be GBB though for it to be any fun.

 

In fact, the most fun I've ever had in airsoft was when I was dual wielding full metal Mac-11's. Now that is fun! Less effective than a gun with no barrel, but still worth it.

[expvideo]

Uhm, point shooting? Seriously, what do you have against using two pistols? And.. sorry, no, I can't make your comparison to RS make sense. Do you have brittle bone disorder in your wrists?

 

You were the one comparing to RS, not me, so I can't make sense of it either. The fact of the matter is that aiming with one hand does not provide as stable of a platform. It has nothing to do with recoil.

 

The fact of the matter is that hitting anything with a pistol is hard enough as it is. Hitting something that you aren't looking at or aiming at is obviously much harder, especially when that something is running. You can't aim both guns at once, or even look in the general direction of the targets at once (which is required for point shooting), so you can't really expect shooting multiple guns at once to be efficient in any way.

 

The reason he was able to do it effectively in Equilibrium was because he was practically touching the targets with the barrels (and because it was a movie).

[dannyboy]

You were the one comparing to RS, not me, so I can't make sense of it either.

What the hell are you on about? It was you who brought up Front Site.

 

The fact of the matter is that hitting anything with a pistol is hard enough as it is.

Speak for yourself, I can use pistols just fine thanks.

 

Hitting something that you aren't looking at or aiming at is obviously much harder, especially when that something is running. You can't aim both guns at once, or even look in the general direction of the targets at once (which is required for point shooting), so you can't really expect shooting multiple guns at once to be efficient in any way.

 

Well... yes. Did I say I aimed at two targets?

 

[Archer]

or 8 pistols and a dump sack

 

2 Infinity's & 1 Para ord + 12 mags + dump pouch = Fun !

 

 

[shinigami49]

Whenever I try to dual-wield my right hand dominance kicks right in and I end up focusing on that pistol until I run out of ammo. Then I proceed to switch which hand I'm holding the guns in and reload. I guess it works, but it's not nearly as awesome. What IS awesome is dual-wielding SR-25s. And some of you thought dual-wielding pistols was inefficient.

[DanHS]

The only three practical advantages I can see to dual wielding are;

-surprise/shock&awe factor of coming around a corner with two guns, simply because your opponent isn't expecting to see it,

-being able to (sorta) shoot in two directions at once,

&

-being able to have one firing gun while loading the other (if you can figure out a good one-handed loading technique)

 

I find shooting two guns at once works a lot better if your fire them together, rather than one at a time, with both guns held out directly in front of you nearly touching, and if they're the same model. That allows you to snap shoot because you're naturally pointing ahead, and the same model guns will more or less be pointing in the same direction together. In CQB it could probably work very well for an exciting and fun filled suicide charge. If you were using a pair of small AEGs with hi-cap mags then you would have the benefit of being able to make up for poor accuracy with a high volume of fire, but you'd probably be better off with one gun and better aim.

 

I think it's tremendous fun in an airsoft game, but doesn't really have a real performance advantage over normal shooting techniques. That said, since airsoft is mostly about having fun, there's no reason not to go dual wielding, unless of course it's a milsim game.

[Mike_West]

The real question is: why dual-wield pistols when you could use two MP5Ks instead?

I can only reply with insane laughter. I'm buying that!

 

[Brick]

There have been trick shooters who have (with a great deal of practice) managd to hit 2 targets around 60 degrees apart, mind you its bugger all use in airsoft

 

 

[Buttons]

I've never had a problem using 2 pistols at once... But then again, I don't have much of an issue going pistols vs AEGs for CQB either. Neither do alot of people on my team. You still shoot with your primary, however the second pistol allows, as already covered:

-Additional instantly available ammo.

-Additional barrel to cover areas, after all how many windows/doors can you cover with one gun? How many can you supress with 2?

-Greatly increased ROF.

-More tactical options.

 

In fact, in various competitions, we've done entire CQB courses using only handguns, and gone faster, and more fluidly than most people using the AEGs. The option to NewYork Reload, is quite important for CQB since it IS the difference between having a ready weapon, and not. It also provides you a backup weapon should your primary handgun go down/out of gas/out of BBs. If you can't use more of your senses than just your eyes, you're doomed as it is. You don't need to be eyeballing a door to cover it. You can just as effectively maintain your suppression of the entry funnel by listening, feeling the wall and floor, and keeping a gun covering it, while you split your attention and watch others. Is it ideal? No. But what is?

 

This isn't real steel, and if it was, its significantly different. Even then, if you are limiting yourself to a single tool out of a plethora of tools in the toolbox, you are weakening yourself. After all, if this were real I would be making shots through walls knowing the build materials, and knowing where people would stack given the terrain. I'd have to worry about over-penetration and blue on blue engagement much more than I currently do. I'd be using a sidearm only to fight to my next longarm. But then again, thats why this is a GAME.

[expvideo]

I've never had a problem using 2 pistols at once... But then again, I don't have much of an issue going pistols vs AEGs for CQB either. Neither do alot of people on my team. You still shoot with your primary, however the second pistol allows, as already covered:

-Additional instantly available ammo.

-Additional barrel to cover areas, after all how many windows/doors can you cover with one gun? How many can you supress with 2?

-Greatly increased ROF.

-More tactical options.

 

In fact, in various competitions, we've done entire CQB courses using only handguns, and gone faster, and more fluidly than most people using the AEGs. The option to NewYork Reload, is quite important for CQB since it IS the difference between having a ready weapon, and not. It also provides you a backup weapon should your primary handgun go down/out of gas/out of BBs. If you can't use more of your senses than just your eyes, you're doomed as it is. You don't need to be eyeballing a door to cover it. You can just as effectively maintain your suppression of the entry funnel by listening, feeling the wall and floor, and keeping a gun covering it, while you split your attention and watch others. Is it ideal? No. But what is?

 

This isn't real steel, and if it was, its significantly different. Even then, if you are limiting yourself to a single tool out of a plethora of tools in the toolbox, you are weakening yourself. After all, if this were real I would be making shots through walls knowing the build materials, and knowing where people would stack given the terrain. I'd have to worry about over-penetration and blue on blue engagement much more than I currently do. I'd be using a sidearm only to fight to my next longarm. But then again, thats why this is a GAME.

You make a good point, so I should clarify. I don't think that dual pistols is an effective primary tactic, but that doesn't mean that having two guns at once is never called for. If I'm responsible for covering a target at my 12 o'clock, and I have a good idea that someone might come around that corner on my 9 o'clock, I'll take my pistol in my left hand and cover the 9 o'clock. I won't expect to be incredibly accurate, but it's going to give me a second of cover fire to either get my primary into play or get my eyes on the sights.

 

So I'm not saying that dual gunning is never called for, but going into a fight planning on using two guns as a primary tactic is pretty ineffective in my opinion. I don't think we'll completely agree on this, and I don't think that either of us is really "wrong" or "right", since this really depends on the individual. In general I think that dual gunning is one of many tactics, but (in my case at least) would only be used on occassion when needed, not as a primary method.

 

ETA:

I just don't think that it's fair to the newb that might be reading this to have all of us saying that dual gunning is effective without explaining that it is only effective in certain situations, and that having two guns doesn't double your effeciency or give you two fields of fire that are both accurate. To anyone reading this that really doesn't know about dual wielding, you need to know that it is a very difficult thing to be good at and takes a lot of practice, and you need to be aware of its limitations.

[dannyboy]

tl;dr: is bitter he can't do it. Seriously, what did that post actually add to the discussion? Nice that you ignored my last post btw, can't think why that might've been

 

[expvideo]

OK, here you go...

 

What the hell are you on about? It was you who brought up Front Site.

My point was that no pistol instructor in the world is going to recommend dual wielding. Sure I was talking about RS instructors, since I've yet to meet an airsoft pistol instructor, but I wasn't talking about recoil or weight or anything like that, I was talking about tactics. You brought up the ballistics, weight, recoil and so on. Not me. I was simply talking about tactics, and yes I know that they are different in airsoft since the above rules don't apply, but I've been trying to address the airsoft reasons that this is not an advisable tactic, not the RS ones. You're the one that's stuck on RS discussion.

 

Speak for yourself, I can use pistols just fine thanks.

 

Don't condiscend to me. I know how to use pistols as well, and it took a lot of work to be efficient with them. A pistol is a very ineffective weapon without practice and training. They have short range, low ROF, poor sights, and they aren't as stable or accurate of a platform as a rifle. Hitting anything with a pistol is not a natural function and it takes a lot of work to get to the point that you are using a pistol effectively.

 

Well... yes. Did I say I aimed at two targets?

 

Sounds like your shots are pretty effective.

[Catman]

When you're up against AEGs dual welding certainly helps. It also scares the *suitcase* out of people when you open up with two GBBs.

 

As for reloading, forget trying to reload both at the same time, holster one and reload the other - yes it's slower. And remember half the time it's about putting rounds down, not accurate fire.

 

You also look cooler and thus more likely to pick up chicks (not)

 

Still I tend to just use the one pistol but I do carry two with me and at times have dual welded just for jollies

 

[dannyboy]

You brought up the ballistics, weight, recoil and so on. Not me.

Um, nope

 

but I've been trying to address the airsoft reasons that this is not an advisable tactic.

There aren't any

 

 

Don't condiscend to me.

It's "condescend"

 

and it took a lot of work to be efficient with them. A pistol is a very ineffective weapon without practice and training.

If you really think that, I'd look into doing something else. Using a pistol really isn't that hard.

 

 

[amateurstuntman]

Don't condiscend to me.

 

 

It's "condescend"

 

 

*POW*

 

Reminds me of the Jimmy Carr line:

 

American: "You are so paytronizing (phonetic spelling)"

Jimmy: "I think you'll find it's pronounced patronising"

 

Why did I post again?

 

Oh yeah, keep it civil guys, the noobs are watching.