birchm Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I think you are misreading the whole aftermarket support racket. The reason there is alot of aftermarket support for the WA system is because there is money to be had there as the orginal spares are expensive. The WE on the otherhand none of the orignal parts can be called expensive so there is less money for 3rd parties to develope replacements. Look at the cost of the NPAS style system for the WE.. $43 with wordwide shipping and the WA? $150 plus shipping for the aluminum nozzle version. The likes of G&P and RA Tech took one look at how much work the WA system needs and saw it as a cash cow. That's actually a bit of a misstatement, the NPAS system itself is 60 bucks, what costs more are the aluminum or plastic nozzle sets, or the set with the bolt, but the system itself is 60 bucks, comparable to the cost on the WE. Now on to other stuff: Most places I have seen sell WE magazines for the same price, or slightly cheaper, than the WA GHK mags, and that is with less BB capacity. Pointing to the c02 mags is silly because 12g c02 powerlets will always be more expensive than propane, and with the PGC mags eventually coming out for the WA, which can take c02 but do not use powerlets, there's at least the possibility of filling them from larger refillable c02 bottles, which means cheaper operation costs. As to range, I am happy with the hopup I have for my WA, but as there is no peer reviewed statistics on WA or WE accuracy, it is all conjecture from either side. Now as to aftermarket parts availability, it is true WE has great support from the manufacturer, and spare parts are easy to find, while WA has upgrade parts readily available from a number of compaies. BUT, does WE have 3 separate companies making metal bodies for it? No. Does WE have the option of two different bolt styles? No. Ambi selector? Not that I have seen. Other little bits and bobs to make the rifle the way you want it? Yes on the WA, no on the WE. You might say that the WE doesn't need it, fine, but people want the ability to customize, which the WA offers but the WE doesn't. You might also say that those modifications (especially the Prime bodies) are expensive, which is fine, but you either not having the money, or not wanting to spend it, does not mean others are in the same position. To draw an analogy, like the sign says, "Speed is just a question of money, how fast do you want to go?" Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Emily, I meant unless you want me to get listing all the gas SMG's. I knew you had them because you've already said something like that in this very thread, if I recall correctly. I think the WA has that kind of support because it's a Japanese firm making a product for the Japanese market. That comes with ups and downs which are well-documented - one being that you need to start swapping parts to get the FPS you want. We do actually need a well-written, fair comparison. I'm sure I saw one in the Redwolf newsletter not long ago? Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
Optomis Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I think you are referring to THIS. Upgradability Socomgear Noveske N4: Internally i have already mentioned that there are aftermarket reinforced parts for the SocomGear Noveske N4 as it uses the same system as WE and their parts are 100% interchangeable. Unfortunatley, as for externals you're rather limited for options. The barrel is not compatible with AEG barrels and there are no replacement aftermarket barrels for the SocomGear N4 (or WE M4). Also, there are no aftermarket receivers for the M4 save for this one, the Noveske Rifleworks N4 body that comes with this gun. On the plus side, the SocomGear N4 takes real steel stocks and pistol grips with little to no modification, and the thread on the front of the receiver is compatible with most front sets. WA M4 Patriot: As with all WA M4 GBBs, the Patriot is compatible with real steel furniture and can be installed with little to no modifications at all. Internally however there are a ton of aftermarket manufacturers making stronger and heavier pieces, as well as lighter and more durable parts for the Western Arms M4 series. You can literally swap out everything internal and external to change the Patriot into anything you like within the Armalite series, with aftermarket parts from Magpul PTS like Full CNC milled upper and lower receivers, rear stocks, hand guards and flip up sights, and Airsoft Surgeon's internals like the ultra light weight bolt carrier CNC milled from 7075 aluminum, and loading nozzle sets. Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Oh yeah, damn, that was it. Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Emily, I meant unless you want me to get listing all the gas SMG's. Ben. noooooooooooo. bank account cannot take another hit this month. I was thinking about the GHK AK GBBs until i saw the price diff between them and the AGM. Do u know if the WE SCAR system is similiar to yr AR? I'm not a SCAR fan, but since WE has the SCAR they might make something else next, hopefully some H&K. Speaking of SMGs, if there is a MP5K GBB how come nobody's gone and changed it to have a whole range of full sized GBB MP5s? Link to post Share on other sites
Samm Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Why has no one taken into account the immensely probable, inevitable rate that newer chinese factories produce lemons? No one can truely say that they know whether or not they know "my gun is better than yours!" when there's a very high conceivability that they just aren't the same gun because they have been manufactured from loose tolerances. Even with WA people know they've been having problems for years with their designs. They just simply aren't as reliable as other brands, anyone who's been in the online circle of airsoft for a number of years on any forum will be able to recite this often heard complaint. This is only based on the first reports though, I'm not sure what the situation is with the current generation of WA rifles, hoepfully it's improved. I'll probably never be sure because of all the fanboy ###### that's up in the air . I imagine if people want to be taken seriously one should presumably stop acting like their newborn baby has just been sucker punched. AEGs are more foolproof, simple as, especially well established brands. With gas guns there is just so much more that can go wrong under normal conditions. These complains people are making about new GBB rifles are the same complaints others were making about ICS and CA when they first started releasing guns! If you've got a gas gun of a certain brand that works that's great, but some people don't. Speaking of SMGs, if there is a MP5K GBB how come nobody's gone and changed it to have a whole range of full sized GBB MP5s? Most likely because of the lack of interest and current trends supposed by the clone manufacturers, also it was an old design. Link to post Share on other sites
evansy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Seeing as this is a thread of opinions I'll stick mine down too. WA: very nice and very well built but not £500 worth of nice AGM: A little cheap feeling and imo it looks a little disappointing sort of like a Dboys metal M4 aeg but then it is cheap and for the price you could add a G&P body and still have change from buying a WA. WE: Slightly nicer looking than the AGM and theoretically the more stable system but 30 round mags no thanks, not just yet. GHK AKS74U*: Oh sweet zombie Jesus. Internally and externally its "I jizz in my pants" sexy and the range & recoil are nice too. I'd get one of those if I wasnt such an AR fanboy. I've only tested them indoors (apart from the AK) so I cant comment on range or skirmishablity but I know which I'd go for if it were practical. The WE, The mech seems to be the better of the two but it only has 30 round mags and not much after market tat support and I like my after market tat. Just from the practicality point of view I'll be going for the AGM because its cheap as chips and has slightly bigger mags. Plus I can tart it up that little bit more than a WE. I will probaby end up going for the WE SCAR at some point too but that'll be after I've gotten used to having 50 round mags in the AGM so that the drop down to 30 rounds isnt a total culture shock to me (I've been a hicap kiddie for far too long). So far I can see, the only non-AR GBB rifles are the SCAR and the AKS 74U? *pssst* The SCAR is just an AR in a fancy frock GHK have done a a couple more AKs too. IIRC there's now an aks74u, ak74n and AK105. Redwolf added them a couple of days back. *yes I know its not an M4 but I dont care Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 WE with 30 round mags, whats wrong with that? How many rounds does the AGM/WA mags hold then? Link to post Share on other sites
LordElpus Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 WE with 30 round mags, whats wrong with that? How many rounds does the AGM/WA mags hold then? 50 Link to post Share on other sites
kojak Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Fifty. I would REALLY like a third party 50-round C02 mag for the WE. I read somewhere that you could remove some kind of spacer between the WE spring and follower to get more rounds in there. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Thats good isn't it? Really helps with the feeling of desperation while under enemy fire and facing wave after wave of enemies. Link to post Share on other sites
HSOJGNILRAD Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I own both platforms and they both kick *albatross* in their own way. I just prefer the WE at this point for its reliability. I need to get back on the AGM and get it going........it just cost money.....I wish I had a million dollars. Link to post Share on other sites
vowlesy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 50 iirc Link to post Share on other sites
evansy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Thats good isn't it? Really helps with the feeling of desperation while under enemy fire and facing wave after wave of enemies. Good for realism Bad for firing 6mm plastic at people with 300 round hicaps. Just to have enough ammo to match even one hicap user you'd have to have more mags stapped around your body than a "milsim" geardo walt. Link to post Share on other sites
HSOJGNILRAD Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Good for realism Bad for firing 6mm plastic at people with 300 round hicaps. Just to have enough ammo to match even one hicap user you'd have to have more mags stapped around your body than a "milsim" geardo walt. Or just make sure you have a M249 in your squad...LOL Link to post Share on other sites
evansy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Or just make sure you have a M249 in your squad...LOL I am the M249 in my squad. I've just hung up my support gun for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Meh, I'm used to sniping. 30 rounds lasts me a long time! Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
HSOJGNILRAD Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I am the M249 in my squad. I've just hung up my support gun for a while. Yeah I hear you I don't lug mine around every game....pull rank and show someone in your squad how to properly use one so you don't always have to be the designated 249 gunner. Link to post Share on other sites
evansy Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yeah I hear you I don't lug mine around every game....pull rank and show someone in your squad how to properly use one so you don't always have to be the designated 249 gunner. This may sound a bit *suitcasey* but I dont trust people with my guns. Pretty much everyone uses hicaps anyway so there's never a lack of covering fire. Link to post Share on other sites
-=OGGY=- Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I my eyes there is no "wrong" chioce. I think the WE is the better system because it is cheaper and is more reliable. That doesn't mean that I prefer it, however, because I think the realism of the WA puts it ahead of the WE. What it all comes down to is which system you prefer; it's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 From what I can see, in the "realism" category, WA-system is more "realistic" because of the 'empty chamber'. How is an empty chamber realistic? It means you have no more ammo! Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yeah I hear you I don't lug mine around every game....pull rank and show someone in your squad how to properly use one so you don't always have to be the designated 249 gunner. he can't. he's a scrawny lil fella, the rest of 'em are big burly blokes Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 It's been said a few times but... On the WA, when the bolt is locked back there is nothing there. It looks like a real steel chamber. As opposed to the WE where there is a big brass cylinder. Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 At a glance, the WE looks like it has brass in it. The WA just has nothing there. Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yeah, cos its not supposed to have anything there At the end of the day, who spends much time looking into an empty chamber? On the plus side of a WE it looks OK if you've just put in a fresh mag with the bolt locked back with a round ready to be chambered. On the minus side. After emptying a magazine and the bolt locks back there is still brass visible. Not so good. The bolt is supposed to lock back when you run out of ammo, hence empty chamber. However, no one can disagree when you lock the bolt back on WA and a WE, the WA is more realistic. That is a fact. Link to post Share on other sites
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