Airsoft Motion Tracker

[Pendra]

If I understand correctly, the idea behind this is pretty simple. Get some GPS and WiFi capable PDAs (you can get a cheap one for like 100 Euro), add a larger external WiFi antennas for increased range, link the PDAs together (the squad leader acts like router) and start to circulate the individual GPS coordinates through the WiFi network. You can even encrypt a WiFi network if you would like to. This coordinate sharing application is not that hard to make, you can get free wifi router application for PDA and the WiFi networking is already installed onto the operating system.

The problem is that the constantly working GPS, higher power WiFi and the backlight will drain any battery quickly. I'm sure that kind of drain will empty my 1500mAh PDA battery in less than 2 hours.

 

With PDAs you may build a massive battlefield control application, where squad members can mark opfor on the PDA, the HQ would always see the whereabout of the squads, and send exact orders to them. Each PDA would also act as a repeater station to boost the range of the comminication web. Also not all of the users would need GPS. They could just get position info by pinging GPS enabled PDAs and triangulate the position accordingly.

If it is equipped with a camera it can act as a rough range finder as well. Just take a pic and measure the size of the the helmet or the head in pixels. With the current position+bearing (GPS can tell that) and range (enter manually, or auto measure it) you can pinpoint anyone with great accuracy.

 

The possibilities are endless, but I'm not sure how practical this would be. Touch screens are not exactly resilient to BBs and noone would risk a shot up screen so putting it to a gun is questionable. Unless it is encased in a hard holder, which defeats the purpose of the touch screen. Also I doubt anyone will take the PDA out to mark opfor or ask for help in the middle of a firefight.

This may be a usefull thing for hidden snipers, who can monitor and mark the movement of the opfor.

[Noveske]

I don't think it uses wifi or GPS. Just uses regular RF frequency to transmit among the units.

 

That aside.... I got the quote for the price. For those who really want this toy, be prepared to pay a whopping HKD 2000 (~USD 256) per unit. I was hoping for it to be under USD130 considering you would need at least 5-10 units for a good working group. I was told a 20% discount if I buy at least 100 units (group buy anyone?)

 

Another promising product which has failed with their price.....

[galactica]

The price seems fairly reasonable to me, given what it does. Did they say if it could ship now? Would be tempted to wait for V2 in a smaller package though.

[teetee]

I don't think it uses wifi or GPS. Just uses regular RF frequency to transmit among the units.

 

That aside.... I got the quote for the price. For those who really want this toy, be prepared to pay a whopping HKD 2000 (~USD 256) per unit. I was hoping for it to be under USD130 considering you would need at least 5-10 units for a good working group. I was told a 20% discount if I buy at least 100 units (group buy anyone?)

 

Another promising product which has failed with their price.....

 

If it's idiot-proof (or even better, airsofter-proof) and easy to use then $250 is a steal. But then again airsofters will always complain about one of the two:

 

1) It's amazing but too expensive.

2) It's cheap but a piece of ######.

 

Pick your poison...

[Pendra]

This one uses normal PMR freq to transmit data. I used the WiFi in my example because PDAs are not normally equipped with PMR transmitters. Plus it is easier to code the WiFi for communication than to create a PMR band hardware to do the same thing.

This pic suggested it uses GPS but it may be a acronym of something else. However if it doesn't transmit GPS coordinates you will need to have at least 3 units within range to make it work. You can't triangulate with only 1 transmitter and 1 receiver. It is possible that each unit has 2 separate receivers. But since this thing is pretty small, you can't place the receivers far enough which means lower accuracy. Plus it has only 1 antenna.

250$ is pretty steep for a single purpose tool. A PDA, on the other hand can be fitted to do that and you can use it as a phone, a GPS, a media player, has games and stuff and you can get one for around 150$.

[Stealthbomber]

I can't wait for the chinese clone to....

 

 

This is definitely doable.

There's been toys out for a while that comprise a radio beacon and receiver.

One person takes the beacon and the other other waves the receiver around and a row of LEDs light up indicating signal strength which gives you an idea of which direction the beacon is in.

 

I'd certainly be tempted to buy a couple of these.

I'd also look at modifying them so that both TX and RX functions could be disabled using a key-switch, assuming that isn't already possible in the software.

That way, for regular use, you could have both TX and RX active on each unit or, for different game types, you could set one up as a locator and the other as a beacon.

 

Definitely summat I'll be looking for on eBay in the coming months.

 

*EDIT*

Occurs to me, once we know how these things transmit, some clever so-and-so might figure out a way to build standalone beacons so you'd only need one tracker and a bunch of beacons.

Heck, the manufacturer might even see the sense in this and bring out seperate beacons.

[galactica]

This one uses normal PMR freq to transmit data. I used the WiFi in my example because PDAs are not normally equipped with PMR transmitters. Plus it is easier to code the WiFi for communication than to create a PMR band hardware to do the same thing.

 

This pic suggested it uses GPS but it may be a acronym of something else. However if it doesn't transmit GPS coordinates you will need to have at least 3 units within range to make it work. You can't triangulate with only 1 transmitter and 1 receiver. It is possible that each unit has 2 separate receivers. But since this thing is pretty small, you can't place the receivers far enough which means lower accuracy. Plus it has only 1 antenna.

250$ is pretty steep for a single purpose tool. A PDA, on the other hand can be fitted to do that and you can use it as a phone, a GPS, a media player, has games and stuff and you can get one for around 150$.

 

It doesn't use PMR frequencies, it uses the 433mhz freq that pretty much all car keyfob/garage door openers use. It's a license-free band in most places.

 

It'a all very well to say that a PDA could do all these things, but who has written the software, and where is it?

 

I would love to do this with an iPhone, since (a) I have a couple and ( I could make a bit of money selling the software. But i'd have to write it first. These guys have done it, and they've done it with airsoft in mind. The GPS is the easy bit, it's setting up the WAN that is the hard bit.

[Stealthbomber]

FWIW, the video shows the displays giving coordinates in a very GPSish long/lat/height fashion.

It MUST use GPS to aquire these positions, otherwise it'd only be able to give the position of other units relative to itself rather than as absolute long/lat/height numbers.

 

I assume each unit is a GPS which then uses the 433mhz band to transmit a packet of data to the radio receiver in each other unit.

 

Given that it's all GPS driven I suspect it'll be slightly more clunky with regard to updating positional data than the videos suggest.

I guess if (as most GPS units do) it monitors speed across ground it might transmit that info every 15 seconds so the display shows movement in a given direction at a given speed for 15 seconds and then updates from the next data-burst.

I bet displayed positions get updated rather jerkily every 15 seconds, or 30 seconds.

 

Also, for those who care, the specs say it DOES have a USB port.

[kengo]

I have contact the sales as well, and i got the same price as Novesake

Also i asked for them if they have a detail spec, it kinda answer all my questions. And what surprises me the most is their refresh rate (1-3 s) Its looking more attractive to me. From the spec i can tell its using GPS + 433MHz but i only see 1 antenna, not sure how its working inside. And Galactica i don't think u would want your iphone to work, if you are using your iphone to transfer signal, wouldn't it be using GPRS? hehe your phone bill will go up quite a bit for 1 day's game.

[galactica]

I have contact the sales as well, and i got the same price as Novesake

Also i asked for them if they have a detail spec, it kinda answer all my questions. And what surprises me the most is their refresh rate (1-3 s) Its looking more attractive to me. From the spec i can tell its using GPS + 433MHz but i only see 1 antenna, not sure how its working inside. And Galactica i don't think u would want your iphone to work, if you are using your iphone to transfer signal, wouldn't it be using GPRS? hehe your phone bill will go up quite a bit for 1 day's game.

 

1-3s is impressive. It wouldn't need an external GPS antenna, they are quite capable of being internal...like every car GPS there is. They are high enough frequency for antenna length not to be an issue. The external antewnna is necessary for 433 mhz.

 

My phone bill wouldn't go up one bit if I was using gprs throughout a game - iPhones come with unlimited data in the UK, and I wouldn't have it any other way!

[Stealthbomber]

And what surprises me the most is their refresh rate (1-3 s) Its looking more attractive to me. From the spec i can tell its using GPS + 433MHz but i only see 1 antenna, not sure how its working inside.

Quite possible that one antenna (The GPS one) is internal.

They are on most car GPS systems these days.

 

Interesting regarding the refresh rate.

 

I was looking at the "synchronisation" speed, which is listed as 15s as the minimum but that might be related to the slightly pointless countdown feature the units have.

 

Alternatively, they might only sync up every 15 seconds but the display could still refresh every second, using position and speed data send 14 seconds ago.

[kengo]

Interesting point, but as i see it on the synchornize timer, it should sync up whenever someone press the sync button.

If we have to wait for another 15 sec before it starts, that would be stupid.

 

And i kinda like the sync funtion there, just press , wait and go, rather then yelling over at the radio.

[Noveske]

I can't wait for the chinese clone to....

 

 

Problem is... this is made by a bunch of local guys (HK) but manufactured in China! To me it seems like an OEM-able item, therefore $250 is steep, especially considering its functionality. A pretty decent China made two-way radio sells for USD35 (Quansheng) and it has both North American Bands and Asian-spec band and has a range of 20km (open area). Not that they are the same thing, but it's somewhat similar in terms of group communication.

[Hispeed1]

YAY! Moar useless cr_p for airsoft! Just like EBB's "Land Warrior"

[kengo]

A clone would be nice, but without the first sucess model (good sales) to copy would any china manufacturer start cloning? Not likely. So........

Plus any decent GPS would cost roughly 100 US, if this thing does provide the accuracy and refersh speed, i still want to get my hands on one.

Waiting for someone to get one, and share their view

[WhiteHawksan]

while to the average airsofter its little more than a toy to long milsim gamers I can imagine this would be a godsend, or for larger operations for commanders it would be ideal, especially if it can be linked to a laptop at a lter date, I.e. bigger screen, more options. or for larer CQB games in alrge places Freindly fire is often a problem with teams running into each other.

[Arion]

The potential of this doodad is hilarious. Imagine whole teams of players walking around, theirs noses stuck into their screens, totally oblivious to what is REALLY happening around them.

 

Like all new gadgets crammed full of technology, the learning curve is gonna be huge. Its already hard enough for airsofters to use coms EFFECTIVELY (spot the keyword here) I can't even imagine if they need to start splitting their attention between the screen, their radios, proper communication, their close environment (not tripping on stuff), OPFOR, their gun and general tactical awareness. I wouldn't be surprise to see guys completely freak out, brains exploding gremlins style, or doods simply walking against walls, CS-bot-like.

 

Its a nice innovation, don't get me wrong here, but its tactical applications are limited. I would see great strategic potential though: as in a guy in a command center with a screen and player positions, directing and managing troops, AWACS style. Unfortunately, this device only goes up to 500m....

 

if this system was fitted in a smallish visor, Futur Warrior style, then yes, it would definitely be a win! But then again, if the military is struggling to do it, then I guess we can still wait ages for it to arrive into airsoft...

[Tango_Down]

For something to be crammed into a box then linked to an extreamly SLOW refreshing screen Could be done. IF someone could "Rip" the internals out and link it to a video output cable, stick the boxto the inside/back/shoulder or where ever and run the cable along onto the monacle mounted screen it would be bassically the same as the LWS. just an idea. The refresh rate would have to be extreamly slow, OR extreamly fast let alone blurryer than a the morning after a lashing

[DrKalinka]

Ok... The sync timer is that fancy timer you can set as a countdown. Like, 15 sec to ambush. Or get in positions 15 minute timer. Stuff like that. The refresh rate on the thing is 1-3 seconds. As the tech sheet explains. AKA: positions get updated every 3 sec max.

 

Id love to have this thing, but smaller. The eyepiece idea is brilliant. Id love that, but you need to sort out how to press the buttons and stuff like that. If you could even have that thing overlay the information over a map so that you could see an aerial photo of the area with position pings and a "PTT" on the rifle for emergency mode it would be brilliant!

[The Saint]

Its a nice innovation, don't get me wrong here, but its tactical applications are limited.

 

I don't think many people here are seriously suggesting that airsofters use this thing for command and control. What people are overwhelmingly supportive of is using it to enable game scenarios otherwise difficult or impossible.

 

I'd personally use it as a locator beacon for some sort of nuke/pilot/whatever SAR scenario, if it weren't so expensive.

[Pendra]

My phone bill wouldn't go up one bit if I was using gprs throughout a game - iPhones come with unlimited data in the UK, and I wouldn't have it any other way!

 

Great idea to use mobile internet connection instead of local network. I calculate that a whole day of communication with 2 sec refresh rate would create about 3-4 megs of traffic. With the worst phone rate, it would cost like $2-3 but give unlimited range as long as you have signal where you play.

With mobile internet instead of wifi, it is like very easy to make a complete command and control application where the HQ can lead the squads, equiped with PDAs, from a single laptop. No need for expensive high power radios. No lost squads. Always up to date info and usable intel.

The applications are immerse.

- The commanders would be able to lead like in BF2 or similar games.

- Game objectives could be applied and checked easily (capture point, hold point for x mins...)

- Virtual arty/air strikes could be used effectively to knock out squads (order a squad to stand down).

- 'Arty spotters' could use the GPS pos and bearings info to mark areas for virtual arty/air strike (paint an area for x mins). That would be a killer application for hidden snipers/infiltrators.

- Point out and mark opfor squads, positions.

- 'sabotage of comms equipment' mission can be implemented, where a game objective triggers the opfor command/pda system to go offline for x mins.

I love this and it is soo simple I'm kinda surprised that noone done that before.

I think it is time to fire up my Visual Studio...

[galactica]

Would it surprise you to hear that someone's done it?

 

www.teamgps.net

 

iPhone, android, and crucially, web based for laptop.

 

All you need is for your team commanders or radio ops to respond to

a "ping" - power up iPhone etc for a 20

second login/update - and you have a tactical map overlay.

 

If multiple team members have capable phones, they can see everyone's location.

 

If you have GPRS or better at the skirmish, you're good to go.

 

Fantastic!

[Pendra]

It seems that teamgps never really took off. Good to know. I guess I will not put as much effort into my version then. Oh well, it still seems like a good practice project thou, to refresh my rusty C++ and learn more about PPC coding .

 

Back to the OP. 2 minor problems I can see are

- the radio range in dense forests or urban maps may be reduced.

- the GPS doesn't work inside buildings, that is problematic in games with buildings

 

[Unit 318]

YAY! Moar useless cr_p for airsoft! Just like EBB's "Land Warrior"

 

Only when you put it down.

[galactica]

It seems that teamgps never really took off. Good to know. I guess I will not put as much effort into my version then. Oh well, it still seems like a good practice project thou, to refresh my rusty C++ and learn more about PPC coding .

 

What do you mean? The iPhone application was updated 3 weeks ago. Seems to work quite well. PPC coding though?