Benefit of a GBB

[greg]

After a painful playing incident recently, I am minded merely to point this out: When you're up against a gas gun player, you are extremely unlikely to be overkilled. We're the moustachioed gentlemen of the sport

 

(I was moving through a room on saturday in a place i'd never played before - out popped a guy from a cupboard and laced me up with 20 rounds into my back at about 2m. As I writhed in pain and tried to get my breath back, I said "wouldn't just a couple of rounds done?". He said "it's a full auto game innit". Hrmmmmmm.)

 

Please realise that i'm NOT saying all AEG players are like this...merely that gas players are very unlikely to behave like this. We don't have the spare ammo or gas supply to play like that, and are likely to have been playing for quite a long time and thus "got over" the appeal of hosing.

I may have got over hosing but I see my MP7 as quality rather than quantity.

 

I'm not proud of this next bit but I'm sure you will understand:

 

Covering a doorway at about 15', using my mp7 on semi (370fps, during a cqb game that allowed it), a guy comes through the door.

 

I give him a bcg (one in the shoulder) & he keeps coming, I now give him 2 in the chest, he flinches but continues, unaware of my location. I now give him 2 'bleeders' in the side of the face & a third on the bridge of the nose (now that's got to hurt!) as he turns and looks at me, a little angry. At this point I say, you know why you got them, maybe next time you'll settle for the one in the arm. He retreated, silent & never even called hit. Amazing!

 

Never saw him the rest of the game.

 

Back in my hoser days, he would have got half a mag, beating him back as soon as he got 1/2 an inch past the door frame.

 

I'm not convinced gbb's hurt any less than aegs.

 

 

Greg.

[galactica]

hey, he didn't call his hits, whaddya gonna do? And you only used 6 rounds

 

(They don't hurt any less than AEGs, of course, but you don't get 5 rounds arriving on the same spot if someone's lobbing at you with a GBB in semi!)

 

[greg]

hey, he didn't call his hits, whaddya gonna do? And you only used 6 rounds

quote]

I could have been all mature about it & broken cover, to question why he hadn't taken it.

 

But, I was fed up with that technique. I'd tried it a few times that day & it only ended in denial & debate.

 

I think some folk are programed to only take a good splashing. I've noticed this when I'm sniping. It's like one bb isn't enough. One just attracts their attention & you need a few, more painful follow ups, to get them out.

 

Of course this isn't 'most folk'. 'Most folk' are right gentlemanly, but there are those bloody clans that won't have it.

 

I see the uniforms & think, here we go.

 

There is one lot, who will remain nameless, who are so bad, if I see their patch at a skirmish I'm going to leave, asking for my money back & explain to the organisers why.

 

I think if more folk did this, organisers would take notice & so would the offenders.

 

 

Greg.

[Harmless]

After watching Jerome on Saturday, I want a P90 GBB!!!!

[galactica]

Chris, such a thing would sell like ze hotcakes! and you could get a massive amount of gas in those mags! A P90 GBB would be particularly awesome.

[tome]

p90... possible candidate for mp7 style gas system as you're never going to see the bolt so you can make the thing as light as you like (as oppose to m4)

[greg]

I'll join the que for a gas 90.

 

As soon as I realised how good the mp7 was I thought a 90 would be nice.

 

I doubt I'll buy another aeg now.

 

But a different shaped gbb that performed as well as the 7 would be great. Obviously nothing as crass as 'yet another stoner'. A 90 or a 36 would tempt my wallet back open. These are guns that I find usable.

 

There is more than enough room in a 90 mag for 60 bb & stacks of gas.

 

I even thought that there was enough room on a 90, to have a reservoir on board & use existing mags. Not that anyone would be that smart. I was wondering if the 90, could be made silent? A good silencer will take out the muzzle noise & if the blowback unit was somehow muffled??????????? Oo, yes please. Yes please, yes please.

 

Either way, the gas will need a good regulation system, as the mag isn't vertical.

 

So, a gas 90(silent), a 36, perhaps a Garrand, M14, M700 & a nbb ppk with silencer. All system 7 & working at least as well as the MP7.

 

Mmm, I can dream. If anyone in airsoft development expects to see any more of my cash, that's the way to get it.

 

 

Greg.

[Stealthbomber]

Sorry but I think the nonsense about gas guns is just raging out of control now.

 

For starters, anybody would think that there's actually something in the KSC G18 user manual that states that owners MUST empty entire mags in one long burst while, if at all possible, looking like Neo from The matrix.

 

Equally, the only serious (relatively speaking) injury I ever sustained in a CQB game was from some nobber with a chinese MP5k which had "mysteriously" crept up in power from being chronoed at 300fps to over 400fps.

Not that a gas gun owner would ever do anything as underhanded as fill one mag with 134a for chronoing and then fill all his other mags with green gas, right?

[FireKnife]

I think some folk are programed to only take a good splashing.

 

Like yourself.

 

Well i must say i have got used to people not taking hits from my pistol but then again i have nearly perfected my 10m double tap so they do get a hint that someone is there.

 

I have only thrice had to keep hitting pain points until the person gave in, once i got a guy in the back of the kneecap runningafter i had already hit him, he went down so i went over and held him there til he took his hit, not nice but the only way he got the point.

 

Not that a gas gun owner would ever do anything as underhanded as fill one mag with 134a for chronoing and then fill all his other mags with green gas, right?

 

Never, in fact i was the only guy at FCS Bristol when it first opeend that put 134a in there gun and used only it. Everyone else ran on Green.

 

That and i only run Green up here in Scotland when the weather is like it is now. But i do see your point about people being excessive with FPS and overkilling, but you have to remember it is the same as someone with a quick change spring in there AEG or boltie upping the FPS after chrono.

 

'FireKnife'

[galactica]

I would be absolutely amazed that a maruzen gas system MP5k could reach anything even like that. Mine were modified to run green with guarder nozzles and I was lucky to get 300 fps on propane. Was he storing his mags in some kind of portable furnace? And you in scotland!

 

There have always been people who cheat chronos. gas maggers could use 134, yes, but AEGers can use PTWs, ICSes, etc.

It's all in the game yo.

[greg]

1, Sorry but I think the nonsense about gas guns is just raging out of control now.

 

2, For starters, anybody would think that there's actually something in the KSC G18 user manual that states that owners MUST empty entire mags in one long burst while, if at all possible, looking like Neo from The matrix.

 

3, Not that a gas gun owner would ever do anything as underhanded as fill one mag with 134a for chronoing and then fill all his other mags with green gas, right?

1,

 

2, It does seem that way.

 

3, I have to say I never thought of that. But then, I never thought of loading the first 10 bbs out of the mag with a heavier bb, until some cheating basterd suggested it! I think the 'underhand' will always take advantage of what ever they can. In the same way that smart sites chrono on their own ammo, they can also chrono, on their own gas.

 

Like yourself.

 

'FireKnife'

Oo cheaky! To any one else who didn't get that, he ain't talking about taking bb hits. (he says, tempting a comment about 'taking a face full of the white stuff' etc, etc.)

 

 

Greg.

[Seraphim989]

This isn't GBB vs AEG, its low capacity mag vs high capacity mag.

[Stealthbomber]

I would be absolutely amazed that a maruzen gas system MP5k could reach anything even like that. Mine were modified to run green with guarder nozzles and I was lucky to get 300 fps on propane. Was he storing his mags in some kind of portable furnace? And you in scotland!

 

There have always been people who cheat chronos. gas maggers could use 134, yes, but AEGers can use PTWs, ICSes, etc.

It's all in the game yo.

A mate of mine has a Maruzen MP5k and it was always rather naff.

This, whatever it was, shot straight through my ripstop trousers and made 4 grazes along my leg. It looked like I'd been clawed by a dog or summat.

I dread to think what would have happened if he'd scored a direct hit on my leg rather than just grazing it.

 

Thing is, as a marshal or as a player, it's always going to look a little obvious if you crack your AEG open in the field and work on it.

As a marshal, if I see somebody do that I AM going to pay attention to them or, maybe, ask them to re-chrono the gun.

As a player I'm also gonna wonder what you're doing too.

An AEG owner might be able to hole-up somewhere and swap out a spring on the sly but, once they're pulled for having a hot gun, they're not going to have the opportunity to swap it back again.

It's always going to be wayyyy easier for gas gun owners to take advantage like this cos swapping mags isn't as obvious.

 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying this is a common thing.

I was just making the point that it can happen.

[greg]

To be clear, I'm not saying this is a common thing.

I was just making the point that it can happen.

To be clear, like I said (post #86), chrono them on your own gas.

 

 

Greg.

[Stealthbomber]

To be clear, like I said (post #86), chrono them on your own gas.

Doesn't really help if the person is using something like red gas with the specific intention of creating a hot gun.

[The General]

The loading of 10 bb's of .25 or .28 weight in mags is something I have heard several people suggest as a passing comment at game days.

 

Always as a joke, but sometimes something said in jest, hides a truth.

 

There was one player at a site I visit who was using a PTW.

 

Now I found it quite strange that I was unable to get range on him with a 350 fps G36 with upgraded tightbore, rubber etc and the hop was set perfectly. He was around 200 foot away and his return fire laced my legs and it was agony. I have not felt that level of pain from such a long range before. It was not even a cold day.

 

My point being, PTW... quick swap capable... Several people complained about that guy but his gun passed the chrono test... One wonders how.

 

I would not put it past GBB owners to use 134a gas to chrono and then switch to green or propane.

 

One chap was using a Tanaka K98 rifle at a game day in summer and a hit at around 50 foot resulted in a bb being embedded in a persons skull. That resulted in a hospital visit and action being taken towards said player when it was chrono'd with the mag in the gun at over 700 fps with a .20 weight bb!

 

I understand he was using .36 weight or .40 at the time.

 

I suspect he was using 134a gas to pass the chrono...

[greg]

Doesn't really help if the person is using something like red gas with the specific intention of creating a hot gun.

I does. The likelyhood of them turning up with red gas in a bottle marked up as something else is pretty slim. You can see what gas they are on, when in play & do random chrono checks, with your own supply of that gas. Like doing spot checks with your own supply of .2's. You can even use their own gas, the stuff they are 'actually' filling with & see how it compares with yours.

 

Certain folk will always try & cheat the system, so, stay one step ahead.

 

 

Greg.

[FireKnife]

Unfortunatley you can also get other means of gas holders, like those fake grenades that hold gas and other such things. But you can always ask them to chrono with what is in them.

 

You will always get the one guy with a gas boltie thought that jams Green in it and gets 600fps plus and doesn't care. One of the sites i used to visit had a guy that did this and he got banned after he was found out.

 

It is true that you can easily nudge up gun FPS on a gas gun, but you will always have those try to cheat the chrono with any gun, i even found someone that basically had teo guns that looked the same, one at 355fps and the other at 300fps but as the limit was 360-370 at the site it was ok but could have been much worse, especially when he put the 300 one through the chrono and not the other one. Only half way through did it get checked when someone pointed it out.

 

'FireKnife'

[Stealthbomber]

I does. The likelyhood of them turning up with red gas in a bottle marked up as something else is pretty slim. You can see what gas they are on, when in play & do random chrono checks, with your own supply of that gas. Like doing spot checks with your own supply of .2's. You can even use their own gas, the stuff they are 'actually' filling with & see how it compares with yours.

This is all getting a bit hypothetical now since I've never actually had it happen but I guess it could all get a bit tricky.

 

I mean, if somebody has a gun that chronos at 300fps and then gets reported for having a hot gun you could fill one of his mags with green or red gas and "prove" it was shooting hot but the person could just say "So what? I WAS using 134a".

 

About the only way you could prove it would be to force them to lay all their mags on a table then unload the ammo, load 0.2s and test fire every mag.

I wouldn't have a problem doing that if I thought it was neccesary but I hope I never have to.

 

On a less obvious (but equally dodgy) note, I flogged my KJW M700 to a guy who used to, on occasion, fill most of the mags with 134a but fill one or two mags with green.

At long ranges he'd swap to a green mag and then swap back to the other mags afterwards.

He never admitted to it but, once you were aware of it, it was pretty obvious.

You'd see targets about 100m away and know that if you looked across at him he'd be swapping mag's.

 

In a situation like that, if you were to pull him for having a hot gun it'd be almost impossible to force him to hand over the green mags unless you were prepared to ask him to strip off his kit and then search him and his kit to find the mag.

[FireKnife]

It is just a simple case that you will always get some sod that wil try to bend the rules which has probably been covered about a thousand times on this forum.

 

But i will go down in history as being the guy that says i will never ever break a FPS limit, in fact i am always about 20 fps lower than it.

 

'FireKnife'

[galactica]

gas bolties (I have one) will always get brought up in these discussions because of the immense FPS and damage they can achieve, and as a consequence they do get banned/restricted at sites. There will always be a problem with snipers, because most of them are a****oles

 

But, veering slightly back on topic again, GBBs might well be capable of being chrono-cheated, everything is, but if there's buildings on your site, or they go back to their car, the marshals ain't gonna see a cylinder change if it's being done on the sly. Compared to AEGs, they just don't have the mag capacity to cause mayhem and pain over and over again during a game. GBB users are by definition realcappers, or midcappers at best. Hosers and loonies don't choose realcaps and midcaps, by and large. There will always be one or two examples and someone is bound to say "I know this bloke who carries 30 mids", but in general terms, they hold very little ammo and the mags cost a fortune - so their users will not generally hose with them.

[3vi1-D4n]

gas bolties (I have one) will always get brought up in these discussions because of the immense FPS and damage they can achieve, and as a consequence they do get banned/restricted at sites. There will always be a problem with snipers, because most of them are a****oles

 

But, veering slightly back on topic again, GBBs might well be capable of being chrono-cheated, everything is, but if there's buildings on your site, or they go back to their car, the marshals ain't gonna see a cylinder change if it's being done on the sly. Compared to AEGs, they just don't have the mag capacity to cause mayhem and pain over and over again during a game. GBB users are by definition realcappers, or midcappers at best. Hosers and loonies don't choose realcaps and midcaps, by and large. There will always be one or two examples and someone is bound to say "I know this bloke who carries 30 mids", but in general terms, they hold very little ammo and the mags cost a fortune - so their users will not generally hose with them.

 

A lot of snipers are a*seholes agreed.

 

Having been in paintball, airsoft and RAP arenas there are crazies every everywhere, regardless of the difference in energy levels (2J airsoft, 5J RAP, 10J Paintball).

 

In airsoft, crazies do damage by applying unreasonable volume of fire, spamming half a hicap mag per kill, and the only way they can be effective can have enough advantage is if you have both range and volume (hi-ROF setups + C Beta comes to mind). However the same crazies (who act like little girls when you shoot them) complain because they are just as afriad that some other crazie will hose them down with a C-beta on 500fps at 20rps, hence you have the arbitrary FPS rules, bang rules and silly MEDs, certainly in meatgrinder games.

 

In paintball, crazies also want the same damage by applying unreasonable volume of fire, so again FPS, super hoppers and auto/self resetting triggers are used. Paintballers are less like little girls, so they are used to the 10J pain threshold and less likely to complain about being hit, more likely to complain about cheating. I have seen crazies who sneakup on people and pointblank fires automatic onto the unsuspecting people's head. Hence why in paintball they have their "head shots don't count" rule.

 

In RAP, even with 20 round mags and limited CO2 capacity, crazies do also exist, but less in numbers. They carry 15 mags, and equip their M4s with kitchen sinks. What RAP crazies lack in usual crazie behaviour they overdo in equipment, spammage and cheating.

 

While it is fair to say there are less crazies as realcappers, there are still crazies who are realcappers. Not all realcappers conserve their rounds.

 

By having real caps (with recoil) it decreases your ROF to something a little more sensible when compared with your hicap totting enemy. It tones your own behaviour down and makes you rely on your brain rather than your trigger/pen1s.

 

I guess thats partially the appeal of GBBRs. But in the end its the user who picks the GBBR and not the GBBR that picks its user.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Personally, I have played with sensible people with most rifles/support weapons/sniper rifles going higher than 450fps, no one complains. Why? Because you know those guys play because they are not cowboys, and they know how to control their fire and their aggression.

 

If I get hit, I know the other guy isn't just spamming to get you, its an aimed shot.

If I get hit, I know its not just bad luck.

If I get hit by a 500fps rifle at 3 metres its because I popped up in the wrong place during an assault. Its an assault, people get up close and personal.

If I get hit again and again after I am hit, its because they are assaulting, I am in their line of fire and I didn't call my hits loud enough.

Getting hit multiple times in the face by a 500fps rifle, is rare, unless I made a mistake of walking into their ambush.

If they caught me out of surprise, I expect them to ask for my surrender, but a pistol/rifle shot to my torso is acceptable.

 

Point is: If we all played sensibly then whats there to complain?

[sirrith]

A lot of snipers are a*seholes agreed.

Hey! I resent that

 

But I can definitely see where the concern re: gas guns is coming from. Quite worrying here in HK too, thanks to summer temperatures in the mid 30's.

 

I think its a good reason to only play with people you know, though for public games the limit is 1J IIRC, for all rifles, so its pretty obvious (especially in hong kong fields) when someone has an overpowered gun.

 

 

[sigma3]

Almost all of the fields around here require you to chrono with THEIR BBs and THEIR gas. Of course there's still sneaky tricks that could be done but seems like that alone cuts out a lot of it... definitely the more innocent "mistakes" that could happen. So if someone's still running hot they've gone to some trouble to do it – show them the door with no guilty conscience.

[jkpics]

If I get hit, I know the other guy isn't just spamming to get you, its an aimed shot.

If I get hit, I know its not just bad luck.

If I get hit by a 500fps rifle at 3 metres its because I popped up in the wrong place during an assault. Its an assault, people get up close and personal.

If I get hit again and again after I am hit, its because they are assaulting, I am in their line of fire and I didn't call my hits loud enough.

Getting hit multiple times in the face by a 500fps rifle, is rare, unless I made a mistake of walking into their ambush.

If they caught me out of surprise, I expect them to ask for my surrender, but a pistol/rifle shot to my torso is acceptable.

 

I like this, but the last one is ######, if you *fruitcage* up you get shot, asking for special consideration for getting surprised, that don't fly where I play.