Too much kit?

[Reborn]

I see a lot of guys geared up to the nines, full plate carrier with a dozen pouches, knee pads, helmet, swat vest etc, (looking very cool.)

 

I can't help but think the gear must hold them back though, maybe it's because I don't have an expensive plate carrier and there are advantages I haven't experienced, for woodland I can see clear benefits but I see people kitted up like this for CQB. I would have thought a plate carrier would slow you down and make you overheat faster further reducing your stamina.

 

When I CQB I run around all over the place, it means I'm harder to hit, puts the pressure on the other team and gives me a tactical advantage. I often just keep a hi-cap in my pocket, or when using my mid caps use a single triple mag pouch.

Soon I will be using just a black hawk drop leg for my magazines.

 

So this is a question for those who do use the full load outs. What advantage does it give you?

Also, when you have so much gear on can you still feel your hits?

 

Depending on the environment/terrain.

 

Those packing fully-loaded CIRAS rigs benefit in a MOUT environment - I myself run a Wasatch for this purpose. It's not suited for prone shooting, but the way it fits allows for nearly flawless maneuvering in an urban environment. As for the weight, it is up to each person. A lighter rig may be better suited for a smaller person with less stamina. I myself is a 6'3", 185-pound college athlete (rower), so 30 or so pounds of gear, ammo, tools, and water is not a burden in addition to my weapons.

 

For day-long ops in the woods, I use a lighter rig. See my profile picture. A forest with many hills require a lot of leg work over uneven terrain. Plate carriers quickly because cumbersome and overheating (dangerous if you allow yourself to get dehydrated). So I run a chest rig plus a belt and holster to keep cool and stay mobile. For ops lasting longer than one day, I lug a three-day pack to carry the camping essentials and food.

 

Personally, my tenet has always been this:

 

MINDSET (know what you are dealing with; know your role well)

SKILLSET (know where your limits are)

TOOLSET (equip yourself accordingly)

 

In that order.

[signal319]

MINDSET (know what you are dealing with; know your role well)

SKILLSET (know where your limits are)

TOOLSET (equip yourself accordingly)

 

Personally I'd adapt that and say:

 

ENVIRONMENT - consider the environment you're playing in (e.g. urban)

INTENDED ROLE - adapt your chosen role for the environment (e.g. sniper is difficult in urban, so think possibly about a fire support role.)

EQUIPMENT - set it specifically for that role (e.g. fire support role - you want plenty of ammo and magazines, possibly a spare battery. Think about load-bearing kit too.)

TACTICS - adapt your tactics to suit your equipment and role (stay in second-line buildings, provide covering fire out of windows while the team moves up, etc.)

[Tacitus]

+ running around with all your kit attached to you is a good way to keep fit!

[Reborn]

Personally I'd adapt that and say:

 

ENVIRONMENT - consider the environment you're playing in (e.g. urban)

INTENDED ROLE - adapt your chosen role for the environment (e.g. sniper is difficult in urban, so think possibly about a fire support role.)

EQUIPMENT - set it specifically for that role (e.g. fire support role - you want plenty of ammo and magazines, possibly a spare battery. Think about load-bearing kit too.)

TACTICS - adapt your tactics to suit your equipment and role (stay in second-line buildings, provide covering fire out of windows while the team moves up, etc.)

 

Tactics should come before equipment. Why buy something that you aren't able to use to its fullest potential?

 

I make distinctions when it comes to picking out equipment. For me, there is the user and the collector. The user USES his equipment extensively. His purchases are decided by what works and what does not. The collector buys what he likes but only make limited use of them outside of photo ops. Most people on this board are a mixture of both, including myself.

[FallenGuard]

SO any recommendations for a good Assault Order? Taking a PC to a large Woodland Op was a mistake :/

[Pkekyo-Nor]

Taking a PC to a large Woodland Op was a mistake :/

 

 

 

LIES! More cardio!

 

 

 

Or you could try an Eagle RRV, I love mine to bits.

[The Crunchy Bunny]

Since my field requires a mile walk up hill from the cars, I'm more or less forced to carry alot of gear. If I'm rolling modern gear, I use my 2 piece MAV, with either a triple .308 shingle, or two double AR pouches and two triple AR pouches, an IFAK with basic med kit and two more utility pouches for tools and stuff. All of that over a PACA with a old ALICE ruck over it for ammo/food/extra drank, etc. It gets heavy and warm, but I am just as effective as any one else, plus I've been told I look kinda cool . I wear the same stuff for CQB, just with a TC-2001 instead of a ballcap or boonie. If I'm playing small events thatdon't require much walking, I'll run just my Mini-MAV over a PACA with three mags, small utility pouch for tools, and Camelback or Canteen (depending on length of game). It's much better then when I used to run run my fully loaded MBSS, double drop legs, helmet and balaclava during the summer, it would slow me down and I'd be dead at the end of the day.

[sigma3]

I've really liked my Weesatch for most situations. It's very versatile, not too bulky, not too limiting. For "indoor" CQB I usually leave it off, but for everything else it has done everything I've asked of it. I've decided to move away from the integrated mag pouches now, but I still hate to give up the 'satch. Looking at RRVs but may just move to a Woosatch.

[Azulsky]

SO any recommendations for a good Assault Order? Taking a PC to a large Woodland Op was a mistake :/

 

PLCE or ALICE with a Kidney Belt

 

The copies of the LBT 1195 or Blackhawk LRAK look good

 

For pure molle the DLFCS kit is good and seems to be around eBay alot recently. Otherwise the Eagle/Blackhawk LBE's work well.

[Reborn]

SO any recommendations for a good Assault Order? Taking a PC to a large Woodland Op was a mistake :/

 

An Eagle Industries chest rig. SKD has many varieties. Choose one that suits your purpose.

 

Privately, I like this one:

 

http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_M4_Chest_Rig_LE_3_Mag_p/eag.563.htm

 

If you leave it as it is, the three built-in pouches provide you with a sufficient amount of ammo without a cost to mobility. Add a drop-leg holster for your sidearm and a few pouches for your pistol magazines and you are set.

 

If the situation calls for more ammo, you can add shingles on top of the three built-in pouches and/or add dual magazine pouches to your side MOLLE panels. That gives you ten magazines. Hell, if you really need it, rig a SAW pouch to your belt and fill it with magazines.

 

The one thing I have always emphasized on is knee pads. They are probably the most-utilized pieces in my kit. With them on, dropping to one knee and firing is much, much easier. Alta makes some great ones.

[Short Stack]

I have my Regular Woodland Loadout, my Indoor/CQB, and my super lightweight:

 

FAPC: WoodLand/Heavy

Triple m4 open top mag pouch X2

Hydration Carrier

Utility Pouch

Radio Pouch

Admin Pouch

Pistol Mag pouch x2

DropLeg holster

DropLeg USMC Rig

Double m4 mag pouch, closed

Boots

Kneepads

Shemagh

ESS Goggles

Multicam Pants

Multicam Shirt

M4A1 CQBR 16x mags

X-Celerator 5x mags

 

MBSS: CQB/Light

Hydration Carrier

Triple M4 Mag pouch

Pistol mag Pouch

Radio Pouch

Dump Pouch

ADMIN Pouch

Dropleg Holster

Sneakers

Knee Pads

Shemagh

Custom Full face mask

Cap

Multicam Pants

T-Shirt

MP5K, with 7 mags total.

X-Celerator, with 3 mags total

 

Everything: Super lightweight

H-Harness and battle belt.

Hydration carrier

triple m4 mag pouch

dump pouch

utility pouch

radio pouch

MP5k with 7 mags/m4 with 7 mags/x-celerator with 5 mags

(I will use one of the 3 guns, the m4 mag pouches hold mags for all of those guns)

i'm 12 btw.

[Shrike6]

I usually run with a lot of kit. Part of that is I was light infantry in the Army, so I'm used to it, but the other thing was already covered: when you end up without an item you need, and you know you own it, it's a real moment.

 

Here's an example of what I run with:

 

MICH or baseball cap

 

Bolle X800s or Wiley XSG1s

 

RAID BDUs

 

Gloves

 

Boots

 

Kneepads

 

RAV with:

 

9 spare midcaps

4 pistol mags

1 3L water

Radio w/PTT & headset

2 grenade-shaped bb bottles

1 autoloader

1 flashbang-shaped gas reservoir

Deadrag

SOG multitool

 

Dump pouch

 

Holster

 

Glock 18C

M727/203 or HK416

 

If I'm rolling with a 203, I'll carry either a few shells in pouches, or if it's going to be a long game, I have a 12 shell Tactical Tailor bandolier for 40mm.

[Gigueand]

An Eagle Industries chest rig. SKD has many varieties. Choose one that suits your purpose.

 

Privately, I like this one:

 

http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_M4_Chest_Rig_LE_3_Mag_p/eag.563.htm

 

If you leave it as it is, the three built-in pouches provide you with a sufficient amount of ammo without a cost to mobility.

 

QTF

 

I purchased my ACM SKD-UCR (Universal Chest Rig) for like $30 shipped and it is the best piece of kit I own. Holds everything I need and nothing I don't. Can easily pack on 12 magazines, plus pistol magazines if necessary. My typical load is 8 M4 magazines, three pistol magazines, speed loader, pistol in an attached molle pouch and the remaining PALS section left empty and a dump pouch attached to the waist straps.

 

Very light weight and breathable in the summer and fully adjustable for wearing over layers in the winter. My only gripe is the inability to mount some sort of hydration system to the X webbing on the back.

[Wisey]

i'm 12 btw.

 

Wait. What?

[thewallhitme]

sombody mentioned knee pads.ive neved found aset that dont become shin/ ankle pads after doin anyhting s energetic as standing up from a seat.

 

so currently i run esentially 3 different loadouts, and all of them are pretty heavy.

 

1)FSBE plate carrier with:

4 double m4 pouches (8 mags)

2 single pistol mag pouches

pistol drop leg (sometimes)

FAK

Radio pouch

admin pouch

utility pouch w/10 000 BBs in a zip lock bag.

dump puch.

hydration pouch and bladder (2.5 litres)

 

2) webtex vest with:

6 mags

water bottle

~8000 rounds in zip lock bag

FAK

radio

226 in vest holster

mess tins

 

3) PLCE webbing (my pride and joy)

12 mags in 4 triple mag pouches.

water bottle

radio tucked in somewhere

zip lock bag with s manyrounds as i can it.

mss tins.

 

occasionally if its a long game or if i fancy it, i carry a day sack with extra mags and ammo and water, but tbh i have enough in my loadouts to last me so far. i prefer to carry as much as i can so that i would be prepared even if something lasted out much longer than expected. it also means that those who decide not to carry as much cannot sustain themselves as long as i can, ie i am in the fight for longer.

 

dont get me wrong, ive done the whole "only carry 3 mags and a little bag to fill up from" and tbh i did enjoy being sneaky. but i found that i can be just as sneaky carrying all of my gear, and i certainly did not enjoy being outgunned. EG groud zero 09 our base ame under sustained attack for a good 2 hours and i was still able to join the counter attack at the end of it.

[Mr. Jon]

sombody mentioned knee pads.ive neved found aset that dont become shin/ ankle pads after doin anyhting s energetic as standing up from a seat.

 

I reccomend TSG all terrain, theyre about as tacticool as a rubber duck but the wrap around design means they never ever slip although i find i get a bit sweaty underneath, also build quality is excellent, ive been slipping and sliding all over concrete and woods with a pair for years and the only wear is a few scrapes on the plastic cap.

 

http://www.winstanle...rrain_Knee_Pads

[signal319]

With regards to padding you can always go DIY - get a roll mat or some foam, chop it up and sew it to the inside of the knee. A few lads I know have done that, they say it works like a dream, no need for faff with slippy knee pads etc. In addition, it's probably wise to get something like a UBACS (under body armour combat shirt) which has its own elbow and wrist padding. I want to get one to augment/replace my soldier 2000 smock.

 

Linky: http://www.cadetdirect.com/order1.php?pg=1865 Also available in dessie and black. I WANT ONE!

 

 

[Pkekyo-Nor]

sombody mentioned knee pads.ive neved found aset that dont become shin/ ankle pads after doin anyhting s energetic as standing up from a seat.

 

ALTAs will stick with you if you tighten them properly.

I've used loads of different kneepads, and hands-down the ALTAs have NO competition imho.

[gisburn20]

Hmmm, load carrying.

 

Tricky one, I've tried a lot of stuff, from PLCE and RMP close protection vests, to Blackhawk/ Arktis/ Warrior chest rigs.

 

I keep coming back to a simple belt kit for woodland 2x double mag pouches (dutch issue? for AUG mags, but fit my M14 mids nicely) , A Guarder Tornado "universal holster" (Belt

 

mounted, fits all my sidearms from a MK23 to a Glock 26c!) Gerber multitool (in pouch) and PLCE waterbottle pouch for speed loader/BB's Mars bars and spares.

 

Usually carry :

 

for M14 or M4 - 4x mids (plus one in the gun) TM Glock 17 or TM MK23 (1 mag in, and a spare mag in pouch on holster)

 

 

like this ( but with the water bottle pouch in the middle)

 

 

Signal319

 

I like the UBACS , I have a dessie one I bought for "The Rock" weekender very comfy and liked the padding. but for woodland my old "field" smock is best, a really well loved 95 smock

 

with crawl pads ( turn a 95 smock inside out and look for the reinforced section inside the arm, pick out the stiching across the narrow end and slide in a piece of kip mat, gives full wrist

 

to elbow padding and the taper wont allow the pad to move- your CSM won't like it though!)

 

 

This is for a small woodland field with fresh running water in the safe zone.

 

For Urban (The mall)

 

I use a simple Warrior chest rig with the tornado attached.

 

like this

 

sorry - bad photo!

 

again 5 PMAG's and speed loader etc

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

[boomheadshot (infidel)]

sombody mentioned knee pads.ive neved found aset that dont become shin/ ankle pads after doin anyhting s energetic as standing up from a seat.

 

 

 

 

I run HATCH kneepads and the way i stopped them digging in when they were strapped tight enough to stay on was to use UBACS elbow pads and strap over them, makes them far comfier

 

 

[signal319]

Signal319

 

I like the UBACS , I have a dessie one I bought for "The Rock" weekender very comfy and liked the padding. but for woodland my old "field" smock is best, a really well loved 95 smock

 

with crawl pads ( turn a 95 smock inside out and look for the reinforced section inside the arm, pick out the stiching across the narrow end and slide in a piece of kip mat, gives full wrist

 

to elbow padding and the taper wont allow the pad to move- your CSM won't like it though!)

 

 

Which is better, the ripstop 95 jacket or the latest windproof 2000 smock? I've owned both and both are good, the latter was issued with waterproofing agent but after several training weekends in Catterick and STANTA, the waterproofing came off in the wash! (Couldn't be bothered to buy more ) They seem to be the same, but the soldier 2000 isn't ripstop, could this be a problem? and has a hood. (Which I never use anyway, because I keep it rolled up or else it just looks gash.)

 

That said, this soldier 2000 smock has survived a week's continuous use in the field plus nine training weekends so I guess it can't be all that bad ...

 

Nice trick with the smock and roll mat though - might try that on a spare one! Also, how resistant is the UBACS to tears and rips etc? I'm thinking of getting one for both airsoft, cadet and ultimately professional use (assuming I get that far ofc )

[swannie_2006]

sombody mentioned knee pads.ive neved found aset that dont become shin/ ankle pads after doin anyhting s energetic as standing up from a seat.

 

I had several different ones in the past (King Arms, Bijan) but finally I found one that DOES stay on all day: Alta knee pads. I had a fun day yesterday down in Dorking and I didn't even have to touch it. Put them on in the morning (9 am) and took them off in the afternoon (5 pm). Didn't move a bit.

 

My team mate swears by his Hatch knee pads but I know it is only because he did not try an Alta yet.

[boomheadshot (infidel)]

Nice trick with the smock and roll mat though - might try that on a spare one! Also, how resistant is the UBACS to tears and rips etc? I'm thinking of getting one for both airsoft, cadet and ultimately professional use (assuming I get that far ofc )

 

Well ive been running mine for nearly a year on cadet exercises and airsoft and they are abit scruffy found they edges but are holding up nicely no tears no weakened material no loose threads

 

 

 

[SwatMP5man]

I probably carry too much kit, current loadout is:

 

Warrior RICAS Compact with 5 GBB M4 mags + 1 in gun

Medium utility pouch (carrys spare ammo for minimi)

Radio pouch on back

2 Double pistol mag pouches

1 triple 40mm pouch

 

On belt i have dump pouch,(carries gas bottle and further bb's)

Blackhawk holster and platform with P226 in on right leg

Left leg has triple MP5 mag platform

 

Also wear a MICH with NVG mount and googles for mounting my bullt camera on.

 

This loadout usually enables me to carry my M4, MP5 and Minimi in the field at the same time, plus my pistol.Doesnt cause many problems as the site i play at is CQB so can always drop the Minimi and switch to M4 or MP5 for indoor shooting.

[Hedganian]

At the end of the day, you go with what works for you. If you don't feel the need to carry everything you own plus the kitchen sink, then don't bother. If you do, then fine.

 

Personally, I prefer to see airsofters wearing halfway realistic amounts of kit, proper uniforms and suchlike. We're not paintballers - running around with a single hicap just doesn't seem - to me - to be what airsoft is about. I consider it more about being realistic as practical while still maintaining fun and usability and having a good time.

 

Lastly, there's no such thing as too much kit.

 

When you need it, and don't have it, you'll sing a different tune

 

Just make sure you have the gear that suits you and that you can carry it all while still being combat effective. There's no point in having a minimi, GPMG, rotary grenade launcher, 6 claymores and a tonne of mags, ammo and whatever if you're always wheezing along way behind everyone else on your team, never able to be where you're needed. If you're not combat effective, you're not helping your team, just taking up a space that someone useful could be using. Harsh, but true.