StarMonkee Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 They generally come with a 300 round pmag high cap. Link to post Share on other sites
thartwig Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 They generally come with a 300 round pmag high cap. Thought I was onto something for a second there. But the Redwolf pics show a Pmag, so I guess not. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 And how did 369 euros, already an outrageous price for a $265 gun, become $638?? maybe redwolf didn't agree with cyberguns ###### so they overprices their guns so no one would buy them atleast that what i would do Link to post Share on other sites
pkm200901 Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 ADDED CLARIFICATION: RedWolf is an official distributor for Cybergun. For this model, the Masada, we have been requested by Cybergun to follow their MSRP pricing – which is the price you see posted on our website. Given that Cybergun is the supplier for this gun, we must respect their wishes and follow their MSRP. We do give feedback to suppliers from time to time when their pricing may make them uncompetitive, and we will definitely do so in this case. FACT. Thumpy...OVER really? that's your e-mail to the 'principles?' we already knew that this was a cybergun, and everyone pretty much assumed or figured out that the price tag was a result of cybergun's msrp or other fixed price point. thanks for using your super secret connections to cybergun and the other 'principles' to clear that up. do you actually have anything to contribute beside rumors and innuendo and 'i've got candy you can't have, so read my web blog to see the wrappers!' what i'd like to know is what on earth compelled cybergun to set the price point that high? having recently acquired an a&k masada, it's nice, but wow. i paid a fair amount for mine but it's nowhere near worth $638. has anyone 'contacted the principles' at cybergun (besides 'thumpy' here, i mean a reputable poster)? maybe redwolf didn't agree with cyberguns ###### so they overprices their guns so no one would buy them atleast that what i would do honestly, that would make perfect sense. i wish it were true. Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 I want to know what MagPul PTS have to say about this being marketed as a MagPul PTS Masada. I'm hoping to all that is holy on this holy day that they sue the birthday suit off cybergun and put them down for good. Ok wishful thinking but I a man can dream. Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 If they email me back I'll let you all know Link to post Share on other sites
tquilha Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Great! Now I can sell my 200€ A&K for 500€ and say it's cheap... (insane laughter...) :> Link to post Share on other sites
NeoVeNoM Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Wow. Brutal, welcome to Easter Sunday. OK, lets call a spade a spade. If Cybergun added licensing charges, that's an additional cost. If Magpul added a charge, that's another. If this is an A&K, then why isn't it listed under Redwolf's A&K products list, and IS the ONLY thing listed under Cybergun? Maybe because Redwolf bought it from Cybergun? Other shops in HK still list it as an A&K, licensed by Magpul PTS, obviously not bought through Cybergun. If Redwolf were to display it on their site as an A&K with that price, they would lose credibility. A good move from Redwolf. BTW, Easter is always on a Sunday. @WhiteHawksan: I hope so too. Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 (Lots of words about cybergun and over charging and redwolf asking them why but with no answer) FACT. Thumpy...OVER So, let me get this right. You have received an email from redwolf, confirming what we already know and what is already clearly stated on thier website, who Redwolf got it off? Wow. Considering you've type a lot, there isn't anything new or informative in your post (We already know its being sold via cybergun and that its expensive). Sorry if I type chocolate at any point into this post, as I'm in the middle of eating a gorgeous chocolate egg. Oh and I'm not a conspiracy nut, I'm a lego nut, though I did enjoy The X Files (but thats fantasy). Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Let me point out that Cybergun have a webpage dedicated to Magpul PTS, which they list as one of their product lines. http://www.cybergun.com/en/products/product-line/softair/magpul/ Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 he's just having a hissy fit strutting his stuff to act like he has more information than everyone else, which clearly, by the fact the post has NOTHING new in it, he doesn't. Simples. it's an A&K masada, now unless the points for contention in this debacle stand as follows: 1. Why is it being marketed as PTS? It's clearly an A&K unless uscmCorps can confirm that Magpul PTS have recently redone their line of Masadas to look like A&K ones? 2. Why is is Being Charged at $638 3. Who's fault is this? Redwolf? Cybergun? 4. Do PTS know the A&K masada is being sold AS a PTS masada by RW? now THAT I would like to see answered. This is what I know: • PTS licensing costs are standardized. If this is in fact an A&K OEM Masada, the licensing fees that return to PTS are the same regardless of whether or not it's sold by A&K or if it's sold by Cybergun. PTS does not dictate the MSRP for PTS licensed items manufactured and sold by other companies. • AFAIK, A&K is presently still licensed to manufacture their version of the Masada. • From the close up pictures I've seen of the Cybergun Masada, it appears to be OEM by A&K. • Retailers will mark up a product's value to ensure a certain profit margin but will rarely if ever mark it up past that of the MSRP. • Given all the aforementioned information, it would be fair to deduce that Cybergun's Masada is in fact OEM by A&K, given the bulk dealer cost of the A&Ks, the cost to Cybergun was probably +/- $100 even with the PTS licensing fees. Redwolf isn't inflating the price point past the dictated price by Cybergun. Cybergun is probably making a tidy profit. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Even so, Cybergun's mark-up is a bit overboard, more than $300 more than how much you'd regularly get a PTS-licensed A&K Masada. Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Its just an idiot tax. If you're an idiot and you buy one* you get charged 300 bucks in tax for being an idiot. *NB not all idiots will buy this but everyone who buys this for $640 is an idiot by default, ergo you cannot claim the tax back. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Its just an idiot tax. If you're an idiot and you buy one* you get charged 300 bucks in tax for being an idiot. *NB not all idiots will buy this but everyone who buys this for $640 is an idiot by default, ergo you cannot claim the tax back. QFT! Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 waffle Jesus, in the words of the bard, 'a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' I too would be interested to hear Redwolf's reply to you StarMonkee, rather than the airsoft Walter Mitty. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 I too would be interested to hear Redwolf's reply to you StarMonkee, rather than the airsoft Walter Mitty. Me too, but Im not too fuzzed about their answer. which, most probably will be very similar to the one recieved by thumps Personally, I think cazboab's reflexion is the most appropiate as it is the simpliest. I mean, A&K gets a license from PTS, cybergun buys the A&Ks and hence has to pay for the license in the A&Ks, resulting in cybergun greed doing the rest and slamming a msrp of [vegeta] OVER SIX HUNDRED!!!![/vegeta] bucks. idiot tax for shorts Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Well it IS idiot tax for sure, but no-one has yet answered MagPuls response to these being sold AS MagPul PTS Masadas, and this is essentially fraud, if I didn't know the differences. And its fair to say someone who's relatively new or out of touch with the airosft world (I.e. plays and games but doesn't spend spare hours perusing news sites) says he wants a Masada and gets told to get a MagPul PTS one, hops over to Redwolf, the price is high but its marketed as PTS not A&K, most people in this kind of situtaion, (about 80% of airsofters know little more than gun = gun name made by whoever it says) will buy one thinking they're getting a PTS not an A&K. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 ^Sorry this was the issue I was interested in, didn't explain myself properly. As whitehawksan says there's a difference between markup and actively conning someone... Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Well I've received a response from PTS regarding Cybergun. While its not what I was expecting it clears a little up but leaves many more questions unanswered. Dear Sir,A&K Masada is manufacture under license. Cyber Gun is distributor of the licensed A&K Masada. _________________________ SAMUEL LAM DIRECTOR So looks like from now on we'll be paying a premium (read more than what we were paying) for anything PTS. Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 So looks like from now on we'll be paying a premium (read more than what we were paying) for anything PTS. The only thing i could gather from that statement was that the distributor for the licensed Masada was/is Cybergun, it speaks nothing about the rest of the product line including the ACR/Masada from PTS themselves Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Basically Magpul PTS have stated that Cybergun is the distributor for the A&K Masada. However as many people know Cybergun like to run a little differently and will now claim that they are the sole distributor for anything Magpul PTS. We've seen it been done in the past and we'll keep seeing it happening in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
P.S.I. Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Spartan Imports is a PTS distributor and Cybergun owns Spartan therefore, Cybergun is a PTS distributor. Certainly not the ONLY one, but one (with incredible buying power) nonetheless. As for the A&K being labeled a PTS... A&K has licensing from PTS to produce the MASADA as the "sportline" version. So on that side it's all legal. The RW listing (and the CG listing) should state that it's the Sportline PTS MASADA but they don't for whatever reason. The price is absurd, and sincerely hope that NO ONE is foolish enough to buy one at that price. However, (IMHO) ultimately it's up to the individual buyer to make sure they're not getting taken. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 In other news... aww we hurt his feelings. Apparently he wants to 'break something off in us'... probably his caps lock button. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Bwahah. I'm sorry, but I've just lost all respect for Thumpy - though admittedly anyone who signs his posts like a pre-teen who's just read a book on radio transmission terminology* nets very little respect from me in the first place. *Seriously, it's a *fruitcage* post on an internet forum, not a meta-literary in joke about the resemblance of one medium to another. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 whats this guy's agenda on this subject ? Link to post Share on other sites
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