Azubi Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I doubt they care to be honest. They have no interest in entertaining airsofters as customers and have displayed a deep level of distain for airsofters, do you really think a few comments on facebook by people they think of as less than dirt is gonna bother them? They probably find those comments amusing. Link to post Share on other sites
Aitch Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 They've stirred a hornets nest, their comments are causing quite a stir, they've done damage to their rep, at least it'll bring their lead time down Link to post Share on other sites
Gigueand Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Glad to see the high number of responses to their unprofessional and homophobic post. Keep up the good work in spreading their post around the web. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yeah, just google 215gear and homosexual and see all the hits. The thread on the zeroin forum is particularly, er, colorful. Link to post Share on other sites
paranoiddroid Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 we need to stop using cheap insults though, rise above it and be the more reasonable side. let their defenders who sneer at airsoft as "gay" or for "faggots" be the childish ones. the quality of the responses have been amazing. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yeah, just google 215gear and homosexual and see all the hits. The thread on the zeroin forum is particularly, er, colorful. An ex-royal marine sent 215 gear a picture of him wearing nothing but his beret and plate carrier Link to post Share on other sites
rvlyssup Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I doubt they care to be honest. They have no interest in entertaining airsofters as customers and have displayed a deep level of distain for airsofters, do you really think a few comments on facebook by people they think of as less than dirt is gonna bother them? They probably find those comments amusing. I agree as arrogance seem to be the norm these days. Hopefully, karma takes a negative impact on 215 Gears business. Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'd love to see "J" say that to my team-mates face, a serving SAS soldier. A big mouth when he doesnt' have to defend it... Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The *beep*'s 'clarification'... In response to the multitude of comments made from our FB post, I will reiterate and clarify what the intent of the post was. If you are an airsofter and tell people or companies you are from Underwater Demolition Team 21, knife fighting Platoon and want expedited shipping, T&E gear, or custom kit, this post was directed at you. If you are a person using it as a legitimate training tool and do not misrepresent yourself to others, this was not directed at you. Unfortunately the latter person is overshadowed by the actions and misrepresentations of the first. I will give you an example of this from within the last so many days. A customer makes an online purchase over a weekend, then calls on Monday to see when the item would ship. A customer service rep had told the person the item was in stock and should ship that day. No big deal. The customer then calls back and states “I’m with DEVGRU and need the item, we are about to go hot”, wanting the rep to ensure the product ships now. Two additional phone calls came the next day asking for a tracking number and shipping details again stating they are with DEVGRU in Florida. This is a recent example and very representative of what I was talking about. 215 Gear is a true family owned business, not a large corporation. It was started in the low of the economy, with liquidated retirement assets. We have built it brick by brick. Another point of contention directed toward the airsoft industry is in relation to the rampant counterfeiting and rip-offs of legitimate tactical gear. While counterfeiting and rip-offs are indeed throughout every industry it is particularly troubling in an industry where safety gear is being ripped off. This is something we have had happen and find disturbing. Our fear is an operator ends up with one of these poorly made rip-offs and takes it out on the battlefield. If you think having rip-offs out there does not hurt a small American manufacturer, you are dead wrong. We make specific items for a specific target audience. If this seems exclusionatory too bad. There are, of course, secondary and tertiary markets that find needs for our gear and we know that. A case in point is our safety belt. It was designed for Special Operations, in and around a maritime environment. However, any military member and law enforcement can benefit from your hardware not rusting. A company that deals with offshore drilling on platforms needed a belt for their uses. Not the intended target audience, but completely acceptable. A <15 yr old airsofter wanting a belt in XS for gaming, is not who/what the item was made for. We make no apologies for not supporting airsoft as a whole. We do not sell to dealers who have even the word airsoft on their site or storefront. Again exclusionatory? Yes. Our product brand means more to me than the extra revenue from the above mentioned players. For the percent of people using it as a force on force training tool, you unfortunately get overshadowed by the rest of the guys that ruin the reputation for the rest. As our opinion- force on force training is best accomplished with Simunition ™, using real weapons and tactics for “stress inoculation”. I realize not every department in LE can afford this, so I can understand that aspect of airsoft. I suspect we have never had any problems from this type of person. The bottom line: If you’re in the small percentage of professionals that use this as a training tool, not misrepresenting yourself or posing, you unfortunately got lumped in to the rest that do. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last. If you didn’t like my language or thought it unprofessional, don’t go to our page or buy from us. It should only offend you if you are a liar, poser or fraud. My response: That was such a transparant, half-assed attempt to sidestep the issue I don't even know why you bothered. You didn't refer to anything of the type in your original post. You described all of airsoft as a 'homosexual act'. A description this 'clarification' hardly alters. You didn't address the large number of veterans and serving soldiers that play airsoft for fun in the USA and worldwide, not using it as a 'training tool'. You still don't seem to realise that being a patronising bigot has harmed your business. I'm glad for you that in this economy you can afford to be so cavalier about turning down business, but those people are still going to be giving their business to your competitors in future. That won't benefit you. Also, get over yourself. Your average Sunday kid airsofter isn't going to buy your stuff. At all. He won't have heard of you. It's the guys that are serious about their kit that are going to have heard of you, and will have been the ones that would have spent money on your products. And the reason they'll have heard of you? Because a lot of those are ex/serving military. Your argument is false as Donald Trump's hair. To re-iterate Jimmy's post, no decent airsofter impersonates military to buy gear or impersonates, period. It's the best way to get yourself kicked out of the community and banned from games. Your original post was homophobic, ignorant and derogatory as well as displaying rubbish business sense. Your clarification is just more of the same, a pathetic attempt to assuage the ire of the airsofting military customers of yours you've ###### off. I sincerely hope this debacle buries you and your customer base takes their money elsewhere. You make nothing that other manufacturers don't make of similar quality and price. Link to post Share on other sites
DFM56 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 "I play a game in the woods with my friends and would like to give you money in exchange for goods. Does this product fulfill this requirement?" "Naw man, you gay, I don't make products in extra fat" "But I'm an xl... and have you seen Larry Vickers recently?" Sounds like someone doesn't like money. Link to post Share on other sites
Dagonet Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 ah...215gear on facebook. I went looking and typed in 215....oh my.... scroll down and find Gina Cina, trust me you will not miss it, they appear to have some interesting friends Link to post Share on other sites
rvlyssup Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 In an attempt to salvage some PR with the public, their ending statement still reflects how clueless 215 Gear is. God forbid this guy ever becomes some type of leader if ever a SHTF scenario occurs. And worse is the minority defenders of this *albatross* hat who feels 215s argument is in ally w/RCSs valid points. People are indeed amazing... Link to post Share on other sites
Shardik Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 lawl at facebook page. Link to post Share on other sites
Banshee_Will Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z407/jamespeters11/215.jpg?t=1326051816 This is like watching a slow car wreck. Where is my popcorn and beer? EDIT: No its not my pouch......... A guy on facebook posted it! Didn't mean to mislead you all. I have some 215 gear but I spent far too much on it to chop it up. I use for doing mad non airsoft related activities on...... I will not be buying anything else from them though. They were quite rude! Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Was that your own pouch Will? You've got a major pair on you mate., well done. Link to post Share on other sites
PianoBlack Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 A related read for all those interested in the relationship between gear companies and airsofters is in "Battle Rattle," published in 2006. There is a heading titled "Operation: Pretend War" that talks about re-enactors and airsofters and how they are an important part of the gear market. As for the sentiment of those at 215, Raven Concealment, and several other companies that those who misrepresent themselves as something else to get free T&E gear or to be bumped up on the order fulfillment process, it's understandable. I remember during the "Hugger Craze" of 2008 that several members of this board misrepresented themselves in order to get military pricing on the vest, to be placed at the head of the line, and sell their vests on eBay. As for their language, it's not right and it's homophobic / derogatory. But then again, so is a lot that gets posted here. Run a post search for the word "fag" (not being used to reference cigaretts), "homo," (no homo shows up a lot, and if its not a big deal, why does it need to be said) or "queer" (not to mean strange) used in a derogatory manner. There was the "*I use homophobic slurs and want to get banned*" debacle about a month ago and "CAG FAG" doesn't get scrubbed for more current things. -Piano Link to post Share on other sites
Legionnaire759 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Was that your own pouch Will? You've got a major pair on you mate., well done. I know the fella who's pouch that was. In a reply on a forum (ODA561), he said that 215 keeps deleting the picture from their page. He said he's posted it atleast 30 times Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think there's a difference in intention. I get the distinct impression that guy at 215 would hurl abuse at, and enact physical violence upon, another human being just for being a homosexual. There's a 'thing' on the interwebz where people have a tendency to just use 'gay' a lot to describe something without being in any way homophobic themselves. I'm not saying that's ok, absolutely not at all and I don't stand for people that do that sort of thing in any way, but it's not used with deliberate malicious intent, it's just a lack of engaging brain before engaging keyboard. Very different in my mind. I know the fella who's pouch that was. In a reply on a forum (ODA561), he said that 215 keeps deleting the picture from their page. He said he's posted it atleast 30 times Ah, well, very well done to that man then. Sounds like a good bloke. Link to post Share on other sites
chas Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I wonder what percentage of sales from supa-l33T companies like 215, Blackhawk or Magpul goes to (what they claim) are their intended users, and what part is bought by airsofters, reenactoras, collectors, weekend-rambos, etc. I bet it's closer to 50% than to 10%. And I bet they know, which is why it's so buffling that they would insult such a big part of their business. About the "homo" and "gay" thing: yeah, those words are thrown around, with mostly no relation to their original meaning. In spain we use it to call someone wimpy, mostly, like everybody calls me a "maricón" for drinking my beer with lemon fanta. But this guy obviously mixes the derogatory term with the original meaning: "homosexual", it's quite obvious he actually thinks less of homosexuals. Which is ironic, coming from someone who chose hanging out with sweaty, muscular men doing manly stuff as his way of life. The military and its surrounding industry is full of homophobic homosexuals in denial and this guy is probably one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Chris that's the same feeling I got. The venom in his original comment was extremely unpleasant. James Peters is my new god though, I can't afford to cut up my 215gear stuff, but I'm sure as hell going to remove the label and if anyone asks me I'm going to say it's a chinese thing I got 2nd hand Link to post Share on other sites
fireman Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 While I respect any company that finds it disrespectful to represent ones self as something you are not just to get free gear or a discount.. 215GEAR is way out of line and I thought I would do some digging into the company and their products. For all his spouting about being for operators by operators and being the owner of the business I find it funny in that the company Trident Security & Holdings, LLC 2133-126 Upton Drive #151 Virginia Beach, Va 23454, doing business as 215Gear is owned by a women per business fillings and one, count it one, US government contract in 2010 for $6267 (no data on 2011 yet, and no other contracts in the previous years). On this government contract it states that the business is not veteran owned. But he spouts on his website that it is veteran owned (a spec ops veteran at that)... I wonder what the Government Contracting Office that gave the contract to a company under the pretenses that it was minority/women operated would think if they found out it really is run by a homophobic male, that used his wife, mother, grandmother, girlfriends name on the business license. I have seen in the past these types of instances investigated by the government with dire consequences for the company. Also the retention lanyards that some have posted on his facebook page as being cloned by element and no airsofter caring, is nothing special just a piece of webbing or bungie webbing attached to a FROG made by KONG of Italy.. so much for being american made. I have been in the fire service for 21 years and a member of a technical rescue team, I can whip up the same buying the kong frog for about $20 (at the highest retail) and a piece of webbing. Frankly their products are nothing any other gear manufacturer makes and nothing special. I also have found another company that has the exact same lanyard for $40 less than 215gear http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/personalretentionlanyardwithfrogclamp.aspx. Don't see anyone complaining that they are cloning 215 gear lanyard.. because you can't its not a patented design. T.A.G. will be at SHOT Show, make sure those going stop by and buy a lanyard if they are selling them at the show, ask if they heard about 215gears rant if you like, but make sure you let 215gear know you bought the exact same lanyard at a respectable company for $40 less. What peeves me the most about people like this is they think they are superior above all else and that their poop don't stink. I know many LEO's, veterans, and current military (many active airsofters) that personally would love to have a face to face conversation with this jerk. Companies run by true spec ops professionals respect everyone one of their customers and if they have some rules on who they sell their products to they politely state that (such as military orders will be filled first, etc.) The ones like 215gear seem to generally be the ones that were short timers or kicked out for a variety of reasons (dishonorably discharged for conduct unbecoming, illegal activities, etc). Kinda reminds me of the backgrounds of many (not all) of the blackwater personnel that were involved in the activities in Iraq that got their government contracts cancelled. Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think there's a difference in intention. There's a 'thing' on the interwebz where people have a tendency to just use 'gay' a lot to describe something without being in any way homophobic themselves. I'm not saying that's ok, absolutely not at all and I don't stand for people that do that sort of thing in any way, but it's not used with deliberate malicious intent, it's just a lack of engaging brain before engaging keyboard. Very different in my mind. It would have passed if he'd just said 'gay' as we all know that in most cases it's just banter with, as you say, no real malice intended. But then he also went on to use 'homos/homosexuals'. The guy's a tube. And a never-served civvy, I'll bet. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 While I respect any company that finds it disrespectful to represent ones self as something you are not just to get free gear or a discount.. 215GEAR is way out of line and I thought I would do some digging into the company and their products. For all his spouting about being for operators by operators and being the owner of the business I find it funny in that the company Trident Security & Holdings, LLC 2133-126 Upton Drive #151 Virginia Beach, Va 23454, doing business as 215Gear is owned by a women per business fillings and one, count it one, US government contract in 2010 for $6267 (no data on 2011 yet, and no other contracts in the previous years). On this government contract it states that the business is not veteran owned. But he spouts on his website that it is veteran owned (a spec ops veteran at that)... I wonder what the Government Contracting Office that gave the contract to a company under the pretenses that it was minority/women operated would think if they found out it really is run by a homophobic male, that used his wife, mother, grandmother, girlfriends name on the business license. I have seen in the past these types of instances investigated by the government with dire consequences for the company. I'm sure a lot of people would be very interested to hear more about this... Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The military and its surrounding industry is full of homophobic homosexuals in denial and this guy is probably one of them. 'Full' is an over exaggeration, but I've heard a few rather interesting little stories from a few gay blokes I know in work put it that way... It would have passed if he'd just said 'gay' as we all know that in most cases it's just banter with, as you say, no real malice intended. But then he also went on to use 'homos/homosexuals'. The guy's a tube. And a never-served civvy, I'll bet. When people feel the need to put "I'm ex-spec ops" right at the start of any particular block of written prose it tends to make me wonder. Then again, for some reason Larry Vickers literally cannot physically go 2 seconds without blurting out "omg,iwasliek,sup3r1337speshulf0rc3s" so I guess it takes all sorts. Not that 'the lav' will give 2 hoots about my opinion, he did his time and now he's making a mint off it, I just find the contrast funny between fatties like him and consummate professionals like Haley who are open and friendly with absolutely everybody while still training their arses off every day and staying as sharp as razors. Link to post Share on other sites
fireman Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Further update.. Trident Security & Holdings, LLC (215GEAR) owners name is Carrieann Zukosky... and her husband the aforementioned homophob is James C Zukosky Jr.. God I love public records. If anyone out there has connections in the spec ops community that can pull up his military record.. it would be nice to see if he was honorably or dishonorably discharged, what his MOS was, etc. Can give you their home address if you guys would like but I really don't want to stoop his level.. plus here is a link to the Virginia Buisness Pipeline company profile love how they registered it as Trident Security & Holdins... http://www.virginiabusiness.org/companyinfo/CompanyCard.asp?id=24907&login=&level=&FileNum=&a=?pagewanted=all Notice how they have no quality control policies and procedures. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.