Independence! (or for the one Gibosn fan out there Freeeederm!)

[scorch]

If the Scottish do up and off, what will happen to the union flag?

 

Will we get some welsh green going on in the background instead of the blue?

[Habakure]

Probably just take it out. The blue, not Scotland.

[Infadel]

Well so long as Westminster wait for me to get out of Scotland I'm all up for lobbing a few Nukes should be a ruddy good training exercise!

 

Honestly Scotland's NHS is The Definition of shambles and the last time I heard a high amount of the Obese folk are here too so that's a positive to separation (Not so many Obese folk who won't exercise is a good thing for the rest of the UK right?)

 

Sent from my Hudl HT7S3 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Aitch]

Hmmmmmm oil, the oil fields belong to the oil companies, not Westminter or Holyrood, 95% of North sea fields lay of the coast of Scotland, all that means is the tax on the oil goes into whichever nations treasury, Westmminster or Holyrood.

 

as for "Scaberdeen" Fireknife, just GTF out of there, there's nothing holding you there, you've nowt nice to say about the city where you found employment, if only it was that easy for you down south, pee off back down south someone might be grateful for the job in "Scaberdeen" you're obvously not.

 

There's not enough info out at the moment to decide yay or nay from either side, once that appears a proper debate can be had, as it it stands I am a Unionist, I dares say in a years time I still will be, the no vote will win and then there'll be another round of give us more powers debates.

[FireKnife]

Actually you have missed my point as usual. It may be a rather dull city with many issues due to the sudden growth matched to the attitudes of the companies that have bullied their way in but my comment was after fidning out how the local government bent over and took one from Trump about the golf course debacle and the way in which Salmond conducted it all. Read up on that and you will see how valid my point is but that is for another topic in another place, this is for Scottish independence.

 

But either way you make a good point as many others have said too, nothing at all has been set in stone and given that this idea has been on the go since Scotland gained a seperate parliment I don't see them getting it together for either side by this time next year. In that case the No vote will win as it always becomes a case of 'well you know what you are getting' rather than 'well we might get this'.

 

If someone (read SNP) can come out with a cogent idea that makes sense, has been properly worked out with Wesminster and sets out a clear 20 or hell even 10 reasons to become independent then I would see why it is such a hot debate and one that could swing either way but given the timeline left and the other issues we have as a nation (both Scotland and the UK) it isn't going to happen. First we need to sort ourselves out before sticking arms up and screaming for something that isn't really going to be a long term benefit (that oil will run out eventually and the other products produced here along with tourism isn't going to keep Scotland afloat alone).

 

'FireKnife'

[AceOfSkulls]

Aberdeen is awesome , been there a few times. Only thing that's dull is the closing times.

 

I think a good solution for all union country's to have their own parliament. Then a union parliament based on population% and divded by party based on votes.

 

If Scotland decide to leave its their choice and good luck to them, there is no reason for them to do any worse (Or better) then Iin the union. Most small economies (who had a handle on debts) fared better in the recession.

[Aitch]

The SNP manifesto is out  this coming week, so the UK one wont be far behind, both manifestos need to be positive for Scotland,

There's no doubt as a small nation we'll survive, if the yes vote wins we'll get 10% - of the national debt, Armed forces infrastructure, the bank of England etc,

I'd be keen for the Scottish parliament to go after reperations over 4 decades of oil wealth being usurped, my basis for  that is in the 70s a yes vote for independance won, the turnout was low so Westminster said it wasn't representative of the nation and didn't honour it.

[AceOfSkulls]

I think claiming reparations is abit much, the union goes both ways. Its abit silly to make out the south sucked up all the oil and Scotland saw no benefit. Just as claiming Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK.

[Desolation mkII]

The problem is, Scotland needs England. You need England so you can point your *fruitcage* fingers and say 'that's the bad guy'. So what does that make Scotland... Good? Scots aren't good, when you don't have us to blame for Scotland being *suitcase*, you are going to return to hating the oldest Scottish enemy of all. Other Scots.

[Azubi]

If an independent Scotland was to fail, it would still get blamed on the English.

[FireKnife]

I must admit I am still adding to my list if things that I am still unsure of:

 

1. What about the military, do they get their men and women back and then have to make their own guns?

2. Postal services, are they now a 'foriegn country' in regards to sending stuff?

3. Tourism, does this now require Visas and the like or are they going to become part of the EU and we can just come as we please?

4. Border control, what of people that live, commute and have people either side of the border?

5. Do all Enlgish people have to leave or do they have to apply for citizenship?

 

Basically if the above stay the same and Scotland just wants to be called Scotland and not part of the UK then why do they need to bother with a vote, why don't they just call themselves Scotland and ignore references to the UK and be done with it? To me this just still feels like a case of too much time on the wrong things, get the UK as a whole sorted and then worry about splitting it off into bits, hell in that case even Wales can have some freedom from the 'evil English tyrants' that some seem to think we all are .

 

'FireKnife'

[creepingfear]

Will they be having a 2nd Amendment?

[FireKnife]

Will they be having a 2nd Amendment?

 

Yes and while they have that they will also take a liking to Salmond and name him king .

 

Scotland seems to be just as hoplophobic as the rest of the UK, just with more rural areas and farming the assumption can be made etc. Personally I think they would have much more important things but as it is unlikely it will happen due to many other things at the moment it isn't really something people are worrying about.

 

'FireKnife'

[scorch]

If Scotland go independent, we keep the armed forces, and they get the oil fields...

 

 

Then how long until the US invade?

[Aitch]

We get 10% of UK debt/gold/rainy day funds/the bank of England/of armed forces, i could go on, you have the internet, no reason to be ignorant,

Independance is going to fail, it's all about what Westminster offers as incentives to keep the union.

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

"My Aunt lives in Scotland, she says it's quite nice"

 

[FireKnife]

Eh, either way I don't expect much to change if at all now I have given it a good evening of my time.

 

Scotland wont want to have to worry about all the other things like border control, lack of tourist options, losing / gaining funds etc.

 

It just seems doomed to fail for many reasons, uncertainty for one, Salmond for two and finally the fact that much of the Scottish voting potential is either not Scottish by birth or has family in the UK and doesn't really want to vote for it (you may laugh but this has been brought up by a fair few people). Either way, bar the odd bunch of 'propaganda spreaders', those street sellers that are just trying to sell fasle facts as hard evidence, that pop up in the centres of cities like Aberdeen, Dundee and Inverness where you have a bit more support for Independence many people don't seem to be that fussed about it.

 

Either way my vote is now set, I have looked into all the facts and I can tell that my decision is based on potential projections and not misbegotten ideas of Union or Patriotism to anything.

 

'FireKnife'

[Skarclaw]

I'm a localism type so in principle I support scottish independence. Westminister & the crown is rotten to the core - any break from that would be welcome. 

[spetsnazdave87]

If you think the SNP and scottish political areas aren't equally corrupt, you're gonna have a bad time...

[FireKnife]

If you think the SNP and scottish political areas aren't equally corrupt, you're gonna have a bad time...

 

Already posted but why not post it again: http://www.youvebeentrumped.com/youvebeentrumped.com/THE_MOVIE.html

 

Sums it all up for me, when this is considered acceptable behaviour it is clear this is not the party you want handling your transition to Independence.

 

Perhaps we should let the Welsh run it, they don't seem to be doing to badly, don't hear about corruption from them every other week.

 

'FireKnife'

[Skarclaw]

If you think the SNP and scottish political areas aren't equally corrupt, you're gonna have a bad time...

 

corrupt - yes. equally corrupt? I disagree. Not just talking about parties -  it's "the establishment" innit

[Aitch]

Any old Glasgow labour councillers are corrupt, the whole scottish labour party is full of those scum.

[FireKnife]

Again given what I know I would say that Scotland and England are about as bad as each other when it comes to political corruption, except that as you have ten times the population in England as you do in Scotland it is easier to notice when it all goes wrong. Scotland is often treated much like the North of England, an area where people live but politically they don't really matter sadly, even Scotland's own parliment seems to ramp it up for the Central Belt and perhaps the Borders and then only cares if Aberdeen isn't on fire as then know the oil is still coming.

 

To me all of them are just as bad, but as with all things you notice the crowd over the small group. Examples of the fact that many Scottish people outside of the Northern areas don't care about how the government is abusing enviroment rights is a perfect example. To me Scotland has become 'small scale England' yet Independence would only make it worse (note this is coming from someone with family from both sides of the border).

 

'FireKnife'

[spetsnazdave87]

corrupt - yes. equally corrupt? I disagree. Not just talking about parties -  it's "the establishment" innit

 

 

Read private eye: rotten boroughs column more. Scottish councils, local government and assembly are all feathering their nests shamelessly. If anything, they're under less scrutiny than westminster as they're out of the limelight. 

 

It's very naiive to assume that just because you don't like Westminster, their northern counterparts are somehow a better option.

[Shardik]

I say let the Scottish have their independence. It won't really affecting of the rest of the UK. I just hope the spineless ballsacks in parliament won't support them financially if/when they start to struggle.