The Future of Weaponry

[BakaBox]

That's not true. For example, the contract was given to Beretta despite Sigs being less expensive...

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But Beretta offered cheaper accessories, making the overall price cheaper than Sig.

[CobaltSky]

The thing is that most modern militaries are reducing their size and becomming more specialised and well trained. Advanced weapons are part of that trend and are more useful in the city fighting that is becomming more common. Colt has the US by the throat because they have become so dependant on one manufacturer that despite design flaws the company has the polital clout to stop any changes. However that can't go on forever and that adoption of more advanced, and thus more expensive, weapons means thatwhat will change is the budgets not the weapons.

[guinnessman]

The German word for heavy infantry is panzergrenadier, just how menacing is that.

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Yeah, or fallschrimjaeger for paratrooper

 

I'd have to say H & K as well. Aside from their past history, they are the only company that's managed to design a functional military weapon that fires caseless ammo (I'm sure they'res a civvy hunting rifle that shoots caseless rounds, but can't remember who made it). Which bodes well for their R & D department.

[casey_cole]

HK no question. They've got something of everything - it's all high quality, reliable and available.

 

CC

[Onechance]

Wars of the furture will be fought with information and nukes. Lots of nukes.

No one will take a leader's role in weaponary, but i voted Steyer.

As the AUG is a nice piece, if the AUG doesn't success then the Famas will take over the world of the furture

[rageman]

Its a missconception that the age of the design of a weapon defines its worthyness. An M1 garand could still be used on the modern battlefield with a high degree of effectiveness. The MP5 is still popular today because there simply has not been a design that match's it in regards to reliability, control and accuracy in the operations it was designed for. The UMP its descendant only concentrated on the heavier .45 round and cheaper, simpler design to compete with the tried and tested MP5 design. That said im an Hk fanboy

 

However SIG today has one of the best assualt rifles on the market today, the 550 series. It's a very simple design, with high reliability and is incredibly accurate. Then theres the P226 which is also held in very high regard. SIG may not produce the flashiest firearms on the planet, but they do produce some of the most practicle.

[mgyz3]

steyr have been make some great guns lately i think the future is bright for them

[crazypinoy]

I must say Heckler & Koch. The Germans are the finest gun makers in the entire world. You can tell from their language - you won't find any other language that sounds angrier than German. The German word for heavy infantry is panzergrenadier, just how menacing is that. Also, the German people are resilient. They fought and lost two great conflicts and still rebuilt themselves quickly. In fact, I believe that their weapons will one day be the pinnacle of military development.

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Hahah! Agreed.

 

Lets not forget that Arnold is Austrian... which is close enough to German! And if Arnold can kick as much *albatross* as he does, then that can only demonstrate how effective German firearms can be!

[Skarclaw]

As far as armies go, H&K and FN are going to be fighting it out. As far as weapons for rebel groups go, the AK-47 will be there for a long time. Why? It is cheap, available, and it works.

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Wow, it does, I really didn't know that.

[Fuser]

Wars of the furture will be fought with information and nukes. Lots of nukes.

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Possibly, but that will be a little further into the future. Decades from now, people will still be too afraid to use nukes. The theater of war will not be jungles or deserts, but the cities, and most weapons will be designed to adapt to a CQB environment. Of course, eventually one country is going to be pushed into a corner and they will use the bomb, but until then warfare will still include man-to-man scenarios which is why I was asking people's opinions on which company will be used.

 

It seems that the general consensus is this:

 

AK's will be around for a while, just forget about that for now because we all know it's true. Even if they change in appearance their design is much to easy to produce and use. They work.

 

AR-15 and M-16 variants (Armalites, I'll call them) will pretty much be the same as AK's. There will be so many of them on the planet that they will have to be used, and their design (although perhaps modified) will continue to be used until warfare calls for something different.

 

Hk and FN will become more popular with the "wealthy" countries who will supply their troops with G36 variants and 416's, and, if it ever catches on, their special forces/CQB infantry with P90's MP7's...etc.

 

I know my question was a little confusing because saying that one company will rise above the rest is too general. Obviosly rebel fighters in Samoa will not spend $$$ on a thousand G36's with AK's available everywhere and an elite group in the U.S. won't opt for AK's when they have P90's and 416's. I was just curious to see what people would write, and I got some results.

 

Thanks,

-®

 

-R

[Onechance]

Res0290 your right but its in my belief that wars of the furture will be fought not in the cities but for raw materials such as Iron ore and Oil especially.

So we're looking at battles fought in the desserts and basically anywhere with an oil supply. This may include off-shore oil rigs so expect a larger Navy influence in furture warfare.

 

As a great man once said

"I don't know what weapons world war 3 will be fought with but world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones"

[Bob_Marley]

I think we'll be seeing a very close call between H&K and FN. Both are at the fore front of small arms development and have been for most of their existence (for example the P90 and 5-7 from FN and the G11 and G36 from H&K). Both have major contracts with many countries across the world (for example, practically all M16 rifles in US military service are FN made and H&K supply G36 rifles to both the German and Spanish armies, etc).

 

Colt, in comparison is more or less sunk in the military market. Virtually all their modern designs have been turned down by their main customer - the US military (hell, they don't even trust them enough to make their M16s) and no one else wants to know. their latest creation, the M5 is little more than a thinly disguised HK416 rip off and the only reason they still stand a chance of getting the OICW contract (after the new requirements are released) is because the complained about the way the project had changed since H&K were selected as the winners and threatened to sue if the project wasn't stopped.

 

Styer makes nice stuff, but it's small arms division simply isn't diverse enough to compete with the likes of FN and H&K. We haven't seen a new hand gun designed for military service since the GB, which lost out to the Glock and Barretta 92F in its two major competitions, and they've sold the rights to the TMP. Practically everything is based on the AUG now (ARs/LMGs/SMGs) and there is a very interesting anti-material rifle in the works. But still, I don't think they'll be able to keep up.

 

SIG are good. Their primary product is the 550 series, basically highly refined AK-47s. However, they show little sign of innovation and look at Their latest offering, the 556. Its aimed almost entirely at the civilian and LE markets.

 

H&K make exelent weapons, but they do have a number of sticking points. Typically H&K weapons are very high quality but very expensive. This has made many of Their offerings undesirable for full scale military issue and have been limited to SOF use. For example the G41 assault rifle. Also, they have a tendency to do Their own thing when it comes to magazines, virtually every H&K weapon's magazine is not compatible with other compaies, exeptions being the G41 (because it was designed to be the ultimate expression of a NATO assault rifle) and the MP5 (because everyone else made Their weapons compatible with the worlds 2nd most popular SMG [after the Uzi]). This can lead to problems and has often found H&K weapons rejected because they dent conform to NATO STANAGs.

 

FN again, make superb weapons, but, like H&K they have sticking points too. some FN weapons have been ahead of their time (most notibally the P90 and the 5-7) and so have been over looked because they are viewed as interesting rather than recognised as the exelent weapons they are. Also, FN have a reputation of selling to anyone and everyone (what do you expect from a company that is based in a town where they have been selling weapons to forgein belligerents since the middle ages?) and seem to have no compunction about arming both sides of a war (eg the Falklands war). Also, after having been burned in a number of licence fiascos FN now try to keep a strangle hold on Their production, making Their weapons cheap to buy but hard to produce outside of the west.

 

So, I cant see what will happen in the future between these two great companies, but I feel sure that they will dominate western small arms in the years to come.

 

/end text book Rambo mode.

 

EDIT: I also see a bright future for IMI. They'll keep on doing what they do, quitely supplying questionable US backed regimes with high quality weapons. And the Tavor looks to be a fine weapon from the reports.

[Prometheus]

I think H&K will win out.

 

 

They have continued development of new designs and such like the caseless ammunition. They will win out.

 

I don't think the G36 will win the day, but a new design of theirs in the future will win out over all.

 

 

~P

[GuzziHero]

As a great man once said

"I don't know what weapons world war 3 will be fought with but world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones"

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Thatll be Albert Einstein

 

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Theres a difference to who I think WILL win and who Id like to see win.

 

FTW: FN-Herstal. They seem to make weapons which are asked for and real situations demand rather than H&K who just (to me) appear to be obsessed with sticking RIS on older designs. Right now, I see only FN-H actually innovating anything.

 

Who I would like to see win is anyone with an intermediate caliber rifle, somewhere between 5.8mm and 6.3mm. Almost every soldier Ive spoken to says that they feel 5.56mm isnt effective enough and would like to see a return to 7.62mm. Statisically, the difference in the performance between the two rounds is awe-inspiring. I dont think a return to 7.62 is in order, but something between the 2 standards is possible and the best solution.

[ianhaz]

I voted for H&K, simply because they have(and have had) some huge contracts with the German army(G36), Spanish army(G36) and the upgrade of SA80s for the uk. The G36 and XM8 design looks promicing to me aswell.

 

However, i think FNH will stay up there as one of the top manufacturers, especially with the sucess i expect to see with the F2000 and SCAR as next generation assault rifles/carbines.

 

As for the pistol maket, I would have to say either Sig, Glock or H&Kwith the USP.

 

Sniper/antimaterial rifle market- Accuracy international, simply because i heard somewhere that they have (or are on the verge of) hitting it big with a contract with USSOCOM to build AS50s in large numbers. They also provide the AW's for the german and british army. I dont however think Barret, Remington or Steyer will dissapear from this market either.

[wodan]

As much as I would like to say H&K (a bit of a fanboy... I use a MK23 and a G36C on the field), I think the future is Fabrique Nationale's. My rationale isn't so much comparing their products but by how each is running their business. The rest of the world (read: Europe and a few others) are getting H&K rifles, pistols, etc. for their law enforcement and militaries. However, here in Southern California, I know for a fact that civilian gun owners and local law enformcenet in my area are having a very hard time getting the H&K products they want. I imagine this is the same for the military.

 

Example: at the last tactical expo (think gun show, for law enforcement) standing by the H&K booth I cannot tell you how many law enforcement officers were asking "so how could we get some HK416 uppers?" to which the rep there would reply with "I don't know anyone that has them and I cannot tell you when we will get them in stock." Going over the FNH desk could not have been more different. Everyone seemed to have their products in stock and just about every model they had was easily available. Any questions thrown towards the FNH rep were quickly answered, no i-don't-knows.

 

 

FNH seems to simply be more organized to provide everyone with anything they want in whatever quantities they need. On the product side, FNH seems to be caple of pumping out cheap, (from what I hear) reliable designs in very large quantities meaning they can completely satisfy the militaries of the biggest countries and the demands of law enforcement and civilian owners. I think they will win the PR compaign in the end.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I don't think this is the end of H&K for militaries all over the world. They make great stuff and their fanbase is almost religiously loyal. I just don't think in the long run that they will be able to slug it out in the big picture with FNH.

[elchinator]

I voted for HK. Not because I'm german, but simply because HK makes the best compromise between innovation and reliability.

 

Armalites ? Already every terrorist has a better weapon - the AK. One day even the US military has to admit that the AR-15 is a flawed (and now outdated) design.

 

Steyr and SIG are good in perfecting other designs, but they are too small to take over the market. They will have their niches, though.

 

FN is the only other player big and innovative enough. But I think they are much too often ahead of time. That makes their weapons hard to sell, a problem that HK simply doesn't have.

 

If both companies compete or one takes over the other - who knows. But those two will dominate future markets and I think HK will win in the end.

[BubbaJAK]

HK will become the leader they already pretty much personally supply germany and the rest of europe it's only a matter of time before america adopts them.

[Monk]

Everyone seems to have a stiffy for some H&K weapon based on an airsoft jones, but the real steel are expensive enough to cool that lust. If airsoft guns cost a percentage of their RS counterpart, nearly everyone's answer to this poll would be "AK FTW!" Governments, even the US, make decisions based on costs. H&K makes fine pieces, but they had better figure out how to sell them at fire sale prices.

[Jagdraben]

That would be because if you were Opfor, you'd be getting them for free. Or for a couple of dollars (let's say five).

 

While the M4 and G36 would probably cost around one hundred times as much.

[Fuser]

That would be because if you were Opfor, you'd be getting them for free. Or for a couple of dollars (let's say five).

 

While the M4 and G36 would probably cost around one hundred times as much.

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Yeah this seems to be something that everyone is arguing about so I'll stress this point again.

 

1) This thread refers to the future of weaponry of major nations. In that case, arguing about the availability and subsequent use of AK-47's makes no sense, because what I meant to ask is which company will be on top in weapons productions for major nations.

 

2) That choice in the vote about people having AK's during nuclear fallout was a joke. I know that people will use them, I know how great they are, so we can stop wasting time on them.

[Gir]

Heckler and Koch has allready made leaps and bounds to become a better gun marketer. They've gone as far as taking the colt weapon, and making a HK version (HK416). Which had fixed many problems current colts have. Also, the HK has a weapon known as... The XM8, SL9 and SL8. These weapons have been proven to out-do the colt series. Now, the current SMG used worldwide are mainly HK. Well, in developed countries atleast.

 

Anyways, i don't really see a Steyr making a come back. I don't see Colt making any new leaps (Atleast in real steel). I could see FN making a turn around, but not in a real assult rifle. They made the FN Famas, FN P90 and other rifles, but the P90 is not the best rifle for conventional warfare. The famas has also been proven to be not all that accurate. To add on, the XM8 was shown being fired one handed... This is a huge up, this means that the blowback is minimal, meaning that aiming, and steady'ing the rifle will be a huge help. Sig Sauer is, just, not gonna come back. They did well, i agree, but the SIG series rifles died on the 552, then again, i don't know all that much on the SIG weaponry... Other companies are out of it just by defult (Tokyo Marui, KSC, KWA, Classic Army, ICS, GNG... But they may come back)!

[Jagdraben]

FN does not manufactur the FA MAS. The FA MAS is produced by a company that goes by some moniker that in alphabet soup becomes FA.

 

The P90 is not a rifle. It is a sub-machine gun or 'Personal Defense Weapon'.

 

FN's rifles include the insanely popular FAL, the slightly less popular FNC, and now they are producing the F2000, one of the most innovative rifles to come out of the West since the StG-44. They also have a limited production contract with USSOCOM to produce the Mk 16 and Mk 17 rifle systems, more commonly known as the SCAR-L and SCAR-H, respectively. They have also released civilian versions of the P90 and F2000 for sale in the United States: a surefire way to make a lot of extra money.

 

SiGArms is still around and kicking, having recently released the SG556 to rave reviews, and the P220, P226, P228, and others are a rapidly growing family of handguns being joined by SiG-produced M1911A1-style pistols as well as the P226 X-Five family, which can best be described as being the end result if an M1911A1 were to copulate with a P226.

 

Steyr continues to be a leader in the bolt action rifle market, for both sporting and tactical purposes. They aren't going away anytime soon.

 

Firing any rifle one-handed is a show of the weapons weight and balance. Not the 'low' recoil! There is no physical reason why the recoil on an XM8 would be any less than for an M16, unless you're firing a lighter load. But assuming that the loads are equal, it would be the heavier rifle that would have the least (felt) recoil.

[GuzziHero]

I gotta point a couple of things out Its the pedant in me!

 

FN does not manufactur the FA MAS. The FA MAS is produced by a company that goes by some moniker that in alphabet soup becomes FA.

 

FAMAS stands for: Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de St-Etienne, Assault Rifle by St-Etienne Arms Factory

 

The P90 is not a rifle. It is a sub-machine gun or 'Personal Defense Weapon'.

 

Technically...its a rifle. Just. I believe the definition of a rifle bullet is a weapon with a rifled barrel that is designed to fire bullets with a greater than 4:1 length/width ratio bullets. I could be wrong on the definition but on that score, its a rifle

 

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Is the wonderful 10mm every likely to see military service?

[Jagdraben]

By that definition, shotguns with rifled bores are rifles....